Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

michae1

The Beast Revelation

Recommended Posts

Where does Philippians 1 say that they were teaching Christ not in truth?

 

"A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." 1 Cor. 5:6, Gal. 5:9

Leaven is a type of sin. In 1 Corinthians, Paul was preaching against the sin being touted in the church and their 'tolerant' response to it. In Galations he was preaching against the false doctrine creeping into the church that they needed to add works to their faith to be or stay saved.

 

You mentioned earlier that every Catholic you know would believe that they must:
"...have asked God to forgive your sins and accepted Jesus as the son of God who died for your sins and believe that he rose from the dead and are willing to confess Jesus before men..."

Every Catholic I've spoken to would also agree with that statement - but they would then add that to this belief they must also do works to earn salvation. This is very similar to the false doctrine the Galatians were facing.  Paul actually calls this 'another gospel' (Gal. 1:8,9).  

 

If one is teaching that faith + works is required for salvation, this is not the gospel of Christ according to the Bible. People cannot be saved if they are depending on their own works in any part or measure. If they are not saved, they are damned to hell. (God's words, not mine.) How is this not a damnable doctrine?

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
 

 

 

"A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." 1 Cor. 5:6, Gal. 5:9

Leaven is a type of sin

 

 

 

That's what I'm trying to tell you.  Those verses usually pertain to behavior and not doctrine.

Edited by kaoticprofit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James (KaoticProphet)

Please answer this one question I have for you:

If you died this very instant or in 3 hours, or 6 days, or 8 months or 3 years from this instant, are you 100% sure that you would be in Heaven?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.



That's what I'm trying to tell you. Those verses usually pertain to behavior and not doctrine.



Thank you. Context has truth vs, pretense - the pretense logically refers to the pretential motives of those preaching Christ out of contention, so contextually the truth must refer to those with truthful (pure) motives. As someone said earlier, 'Truth' therefore refers to the motives of those preaching, and not the veracity of what is said. Remember that 'another gospel' is no gospel at all. It cannot save.

Sin is a doctrine. Doctrine is what says 'this is right', 'this is sin', 'this is how you get saved', etc. And you're ignoring the fact that the Galatians reference is referring directly to the teachings (or doctrines) of false teachers.

May I ask a question, please? Your posts seem to suggest this, but I don't want to jump to conclusions. Do you believe that 'by grace alone, through faith alone' and 'by grace through faith and works' are both valid means of obtaining salvation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember that 'another gospel' is no gospel at all. It cannot save.

Well no I don't remember that because I don't believe that.  What you need to understand is this.  Another gospel isn't the same gospel that becomes distorted.  It's a gospel of something else.  Another gospel is Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism.  If you research false Christ and false prophets you'll see that they were easily identified and excommunicated from the church.  False "teachers" in the church were given a second chance.  This goes along with damnable and un-damnable heresies.  This is  not a one size fits all issue.    

 

 May I ask a question, please? Your posts seem to suggest this, but I don't want to jump to conclusions. Do you believe that 'by grace alone, through faith alone' and 'by grace through faith and works' are both valid means of obtaining salvation?    

I get this question so much it gets old.  You see the "by grace alone" is misleading because it implies everyone is saved.

 

I'm going to give you the Catholic definition and I'm sorry if you disagree.

 

I believe I am saved by my faith in God's grace through repentance.  The fruit of the Spirit, and works are the evidence of that faith saving grace. Faith and works alone cannot save you.  That's what Catholics believe. 

 

There has to be some evidence of being born again!  Salvation isn't a faith based mental issue or a works based physical issue.

      

And I don't want to answer this question again.  I think it's the third time!

Edited by kaoticprofit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's no use trying to convince someone who is that misguided by their pre-conceived ideas.  You have no idea how wrong you are on the issue,  It certainly stems for indoctrination and an unwillingness to seek the truth and forgive.

 

Proverbs 6:14  Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.

 

I know a lot of Catholic's, Pentecostals, Baptist, Jehovah's Witnesses.   I know Catholic doctrine well enough to know that it's in upwards of 80% identical and in accord to that of Protestantism.  I'm saddened that you and many others are that uninformed and appear to even be prejudice against Catholics.  It's no wonder people avoid Christian Churches like the plague.

 

There is no truth in the quote you've made above.  Ignorance

 

1 Corinthians 3:19  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20  And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21  Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
22  Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23  And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

 

Your wisdom is insufficient to Judge Catholics. 

 

Proverbs 8:5  O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
 

Proverbs 8:13  The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

 

See, that's were your wrong, about Protestants.

 

We are not Protestants. Most all Protestant churches teaches works based salvation of some sort,  we have no part of that teachings, works never saved anyone.

 

Why aren't we Protestants? Because a Protestant is one that came out of the Catholic church,  we were never part of the Catholic church, so its impossible for us to have come out from among her.

 

Your showing your ignorance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry... which isn't true? Ya lost me there...

OK.  This is what you said.

 

However, when the soteriology is changed from that of the Bible - then the whole is contaminated . Doesn't matter whether it's 80% 'good' if the 20% is poison.

 

You're trying to tell me that if you don't have 100% of the truth in your doctrine you are lost.  That's senseless.  What I'm saying is that every Church has some incorrect doctrine in it.  Your putting correct doctrine above all else.  You question the salvation of Catholics by their doctrine and condemn people who don't have 100% of true doctrine?   What makes you think you don't have false doctrine, and who is it that determines what 100% of truth is?  YOU!

Edited by kaoticprofit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See, that's were your wrong, about Protestants.

 

We are not Protestants. Most all Protestant churches teaches works based salvation of some sort,  we have no part of that teachings, works never saved anyone.

 

Why aren't we Protestants? Because a Protestant is one that came out of the Catholic church,  we were never part of the Catholic church, so its impossible for us to have come out from among her.

 

Your showing your ignorance.

 

 

Listen Uhm....

 

OK! OK!

Edited by kaoticprofit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well no I don't remember that because I don't believe that.  What you need to understand is this.  Another gospel isn't the same gospel that becomes distorted.  It's a gospel of something else.  Another gospel is Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism.  If you research false Christ and false prophets you'll see that they were easily identified and excommunicated from the church.  False "teachers" in the church were given a second chance.  This goes along with damnable and un-damnable heresies.  This is  not a one size fits all issue.    

 

I get this question so much it gets old.  You see the "by grace alone" is misleading because it implies everyone is saved.

 

I'm going to give you the Catholic definition and I'm sorry if you disagree.

 

I believe I am saved by my faith in God's grace through repentance.  The fruit of the Spirit, and works are the evidence of that faith saving grace. Faith and works alone cannot save you.  That's what Catholics believe. 

 

There has to be some evidence of being born again!  Salvation isn't a faith based mental issue or a works based physical issue.

      

And I don't want to answer this question again.  I think it's the third time!

Edited by wretched

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK.  This is what you said.

 

However, when the soteriology is changed from that of the Bible - then the whole is contaminated . Doesn't matter whether it's 80% 'good' if the 20% is poison.

 

You're trying to tell me that if you don't have 100% of the truth in your doctrine you are lost.  That's senseless.  What I'm saying is that every Church has some incorrect doctrine in it.  Your putting correct doctrine above all else.  You question the salvation of Catholics by their doctrine and condemn people who don't have 100% of true doctrine?   What makes you think you don't have false doctrine, and who is it that determines what 100% of truth is?  YOU!

 

No, I'm trying to tell you that if the salvation message is wrong - then that messes everything up. Doesn't matter how 'orthodox' everything else might be if they've got a wrong definition of salvation.  That's why we keep asking you that question - all other discussions are futile if we don't agree there.

 

And, btw, you didn't answer my last question. I didn't ask you for your definition, I asked for a simple yes or no answer - which I did not get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I'm trying to tell you that if the salvation message is wrong - then that messes everything up. Doesn't matter how 'orthodox' everything else might be if they've got a wrong definition of salvation.  That's why we keep asking you that question - all other discussions are futile if we don't agree there.

 

And, btw, you didn't answer my last question. I didn't ask you for your definition, I asked for a simple yes or no answer - which I did not get.

But again we can go round and round about this and get nowhere.  I did answer your question and it's not as simple as yes or no.  You would make a great politician.

 

Your telling me that the Christ in your gospel message saves you because it's 100% right.  Why would I want to debate something with you if you condemn me for believing different when that isn't a damnable, antichrist issue or a damnable heresy?  Maybe it's you with the doctrinal misunderstanding about grace etc. The big thing is that you condemn people for something I know isn't damnable.  This is why IFB have alienated themselves from the general Christian public by taking a hard nose holier than thou approach to this long debated issue.

Edited by kaoticprofit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But again we can go round and round about this and get nowhere.  I did answer your question and it's not as simple as yes or no.  You would make a great politician.

 

Your telling me that the Christ in your gospel message saves you because it's 100% right.  Why would I want to debate something with you if you condemn me for believing different when that isn't a damnable, antichrist issue or a damnable heresy?  Maybe it's you with the doctrinal misunderstanding about grace etc. The big thing is that you condemn people for something I know isn't damnable.  This is why IFB have alienated themselves from the general Christian public by taking a hard nose holier than thou approach to this long debated issue.

 

Within the bible there is only one way to be saved, & its though Jesus, & Jesus alone.

 

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

yes, there is only one way to God the Father, & its though jesus, Jesus is our only mediator between us & God.

 

 

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

Our mediator is not Mary, not the Eucharist, its only though Jesus. Jesus at this time is setting by God's the Fathers right hand side mediating for us. We can reach the Father only by going though Jesus.

 

 

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
A person is saved by faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift, a gift a person cannot only accpet byt placing their faith in Jesus, who-

 

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

Jesus gave His life for us, dying on that old cross suffering for our sins, paying our sin debt.

 

 

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

It seems you have mentioned many other ways, yet that you stay away from the one true path a person can actually get save. And if  person does not get that right, there is actually no hope of them getting other things right.

 

Its up to you, all we can do is show you the proper way.

 

Edited to add this.

 

We don' mean to be mean, hard hearted, towards you. But you have come onto an Independent Fundamental  Baptist board & proclaiming false doctrine. And we are trying to point you in the proper direction. Sorry if we come off wrong, we don't mean to.

Edited by Jerry80871852

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Within the bible there is only one way to be saved, & its though Jesus, & Jesus alone.

 

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

yes, there is only one way to God the Father, & its though jesus, Jesus is our only mediator between us & God.

 

 

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

Our mediator is not Mary, not the Eucharist, its only though Jesus. Jesus at this time is setting by God's the Fathers right hand side mediating for us. We can reach the Father only by going though Jesus.

 

 

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
A person is saved by faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift, a gift a person cannot only accpet byt placing their faith in Jesus, who-

 

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

Jesus gave His life for us, dying on that old cross suffering for our sins, paying our sin debt.

 

 

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

It seems you have mentioned many other ways, yet that you stay away from the one true path a person can actually get save. And if  person does not get that right, there is actually no hope of them getting other things right.

 

Its up to you, all we can do is show you the proper way.

 

Edited to add this.

 

 

We don' mean to be mean, hard hearted, towards you. But you have come onto an Independent Fundamental  Baptist board & proclaiming false doctrine. And we are trying to point you in the proper direction. Sorry if we come off wrong, we don't mean to.

 

The thing is I don't disagree with what you said!  Your perception is that I do. 

What I object to is your presumptions that I'm proclaiming false doctrine, and that people who are not antichrist are condemned!  I think your just trying to find fault with me.  The only thing I disagree with is the condemnation of people with un-damnable heresies.  Something all of you need to do a study on.  I actually agree with you on doctrine.  We disagree in that you categorize Catholicism as antichrist when they are not.

Edited by kaoticprofit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 207 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...