The Baptist Rosary

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July 6, 2011 (Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

The following is Pastor Marty Wynn, Lighthouse Baptist Church, Columbus, GA, pastor@lbcministries.net

Does saying a prayer produce salvation?  If I say, “Lord, I know I am a sinner and I believe you died for my sins, and I want you to save me,” does that save me?  I realize that I am treading upon ground that can be very volatile and, yet, this is an issue that must be addressed among those who care about the souls of men.

It is my belief that my early ministry left many people more lost than I found them.  As I would go out door-knocking, I would apply the principles I had been taught in soul-winning class.  You know the drill. . .Knock the door. . .slide your foot into the door opening so they could not close it again. . .lead them down the Roman’s Road. . .and, ultimately, lead them in the Sinner’s Prayer.  The number of people that I lead through the “Sinner’s Prayer” is many.  Yet, they did not experience the changed life that Second Corinthians 5:17 speaks of.  They never darkened the door of the church.  They never forsook their wicked lifestyles.  Yet, if you asked them today if they were saved, they would probably say, “Yes I am. . .I prayed a prayer years ago when a preacher came by.”  Thus, they were left more lost than I had found them.


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[anime4christ]

Good article. This is the essence of Lordship Salvation, which I've seen often derided by many Baptists. I'm glad many are acknowledging that true repentance is not merely in the words, but has the full gospel at it's root and by the Spirit produces fruit.

[John81]

Yes, great article, but many professing Christians will be offended by this.

How many have been misled into believing they are okay with God simply because they said a "sinners prayer"?

Many don't like to mention repentance or what true salvation means or that true salvation brings about a change of heart and life.

I've heard many preachers preach the dangerous message that one can be saved and never show any signs of salvation; or some who go even further and declare that one can be saved and still life like the devil.

This is not biblical teaching at all!

I have members of my own family who were presented with a watered down gospel and now seem to be trusting in the fact they were baptized to get them to heaven.

[Wilchbla]

Luke 18:13-

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Romans 10:9,10-

[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If the person means it from the heart then yes, all is needed is a pray. Lordship salvation is nothing but Calvinistic bunk.

Roman 10:13-

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[John81]

Luke 18:13-

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Romans 10:9,10-

[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If the person means it from the heart then yes, all is needed is a pray. Lordship salvation is nothing but Calvinistic bunk.

Roman 10:13-

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

One can't rightly call upon the Lord or believe in Jesus if they first don't know exactly who Jesus is and what it is they need to believe in.

Anyone can say "I believe in Jesus, Jesus come into my heart, thank You for saving me. Amen" but if that's all there is to it they are not saved.

One must understand they are a sinner, they must understand their sins must be dealt with, they must understand what it means to make Jesus Lord of their life, they must understand this is a heart issue and not a matter of words.

[JerryNumbers]

One thing for sure, before a person can be saved, they must 1st know that they're lost. Yet it does not take a whole lot of Bible knowledge to be saved.

[anime4christ]

Luke 18:13-

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Romans 10:9,10-

[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If the person means it from the heart then yes, all is needed is a pray. Lordship salvation is nothing but Calvinistic bunk.

Roman 10:13-

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Repentance is far more than a prayer. It is a change of mind (as in mindset, paradigm, belief system), intention, and direction at the deepest level which produces completely different works from before. This is a rather simplified and incomplete definition of repentance, but nowhere in the Bible is repentance defined as a prayer. It is described as turning from evil to do good. Lordship salvation is not limited to Calvinism. It simply means what David cloud describes here: that true repentance produces fruit meet with repentance. And it is necessary that we present the gospel in a faithful fashion in order for that to happen in a sinner. A watered down gospel usually doesn't produce true repentance, and even if a prayer prayed was heart-felt to some extent, doesn't necessarily make the person saved if they never did understand their condition and the gospel.

[John81]

One thing for sure, before a person can be saved, they must 1st know that they're lost. Yet it does not take a whole lot of Bible knowledge to be saved.

That's right Jerry. They don't need to be schooled in Scripture first, but they do have to understand they need to be saved and they need to have an understanding of who Jesus is and what it means to repent and accept Christ.

Many lost folks, especially here in America, already have a preconcieved idea of who Jesus is, but it's not the Jesus of the Bible. If such folks pray to a "sinners prayer" to a "Mormon Jesus" or a "worldly Jesus", they are not praying to the Jesus of Scripture, nor do they understand the Gospel.

Far better for us to take the time to make sure those we talk with actually know who the Jesus of Scripture is and explain the Gospel to them rather than to try and rush them into saying a "sinners prayer" which actually holds little meaning to them and has no effect upon their heart.

We don't see an example of the "sinners prayer" approach in Scripture, but we do see examples of Christians expounding upon the Word of God, explaining Christ to them and of those hearing being born again from such. We can see examples of this with Peter, Phillip and others in Scripture.

[Covenanter]

Can we add "decisionist evangelism" into the discussion. The "converts" are counted, but do they count the continuing evidence?

1Th 1:2 ¶ We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
Read on .....

[heartstrings]

May 11, 1986(Mother's Day), It happened on the left side of the churchhouse, about the third or fourth pew back. One of the songs they sang was "Love Lifted Me", the preacher preached a message on "The Lord is My Shepherd" from the 23rd psalm. I was under very deep conviction of sin, righteousness and judgement. Before I could get two steps toward the end of that pew, I was saved. One split second I beleived on Him in my heart and my mouth followed suit about a split second later. So, my prayer consisted of one word......"Jesus". Was that a prayer? You better believe it; because I was talking directly to Him as if no one else was there. God heard my prayer and things have never been the same since.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
..........and I was actually calling out very loudly...Being exceptionally bashful, that is something way outside my nature.
..........11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

I had already went through the 'repeat after me' prayer when I was about 10 years old. But there was no heart change and I was not made a new creature.

[John81]

Can we add "decisionist evangelism" into the discussion. The "converts" are counted, but do they count the continuing evidence?

1Th 1:2 ¶ We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
Read on .....

Is that the same as the "1, 2, 3, pray after me" and "easy believism" which this is addressing? All of this is about seeking "decisions" when we are commanded to make disciples. Scripture doesn't tell us to make converts, but to make disciples. We are not making disciples if we simply press someone to "make a decision for Christ", then tell them they are saved and leave them for our next target.

[John81]

May 11, 1986(Mother's Day), It happened on the left side of the churchhouse, about the third or fourth pew back. One of the songs they sang was "Love Lifted Me", the preacher preached a message on "The Lord is My Shepherd" from the 23rd psalm. I was under very deep conviction of sin, righteousness and judgement. Before I could get two steps toward the end of that pew, I was saved. One split second I beleived on Him in my heart and my mouth followed suit about a split second later. So, my prayer consisted of one word......"Jesus". Was that a prayer? You better believe it; because I was talking directly to Him as if no one else was there. God heard my prayer and things have never been the same since.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
..........and I was actually calling out very loudly...Being exceptionally bashful, that is something way outside my nature.
..........11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

I had already went through the 'repeat after me' prayer when I was about 10 years old. But there was no heart change and I was not made a new creature.

It was almost 30 years ago, shortly after my 18th birthday, that I went to a night church service with the girl I was dating. They showed the movie "Thief in the Night" which greatly impacted me. Then the pastor spoke and I knew I had to be saved and I was born again right there.

I had read tracts and booklets in my teens, as well as attended Methodist Sunday school as a child. I had even said those little "sinners prayers" before but I was not born again until the Holy Ghost brought it all together that one night in late September 1981.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

I believe one needs to repent of their sins and truly put their trust in Jesus as their Savior to be saved. Be careful not to say that you have to make Jesus Lord of every area of your life before you are saved. I know for a fact that I didn't understand having Jesus as Lord of every area of my life. He's been working on me as I grow into a mature Christian. That doesn't mean I was any less saved what I was a baby Christian still immature in my ways.

[John81]

I believe one needs to repent of their sins and truly put their trust in Jesus as their Savior to be saved. Be careful not to say that you have to make Jesus Lord of every area of your life before you are saved. I know for a fact that I didn't understand having Jesus as Lord of every area of my life. He's been working on me as I grow into a mature Christian. That doesn't mean I was any less saved what I was a baby Christian still immature in my ways.

I agree. We must accept Jesus as our Lord, but it's a process of learning to submit to HIs Lordship in our life.

[JerryNumbers]

That's right Jerry. They don't need to be schooled in Scripture first, but they do have to understand they need to be saved and they need to have an understanding of who Jesus is and what it means to repent and accept Christ.

Many lost folks, especially here in America, already have a preconcieved idea of who Jesus is, but it's not the Jesus of the Bible. If such folks pray to a "sinners prayer" to a "Mormon Jesus" or a "worldly Jesus", they are not praying to the Jesus of Scripture, nor do they understand the Gospel.

Far better for us to take the time to make sure those we talk with actually know who the Jesus of Scripture is and explain the Gospel to them rather than to try and rush them into saying a "sinners prayer" which actually holds little meaning to them and has no effect upon their heart.

We don't see an example of the "sinners prayer" approach in Scripture, but we do see examples of Christians expounding upon the Word of God, explaining Christ to them and of those hearing being born again from such. We can see examples of this with Peter, Phillip and others in Scripture.

Lu 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

An example of a sinners prayer. "God be merciful to me a sinner."