Professional Liars

[Guest]

I sincerely hope this statement will not offend any member of this forum, but I do think that attorneys are "professional liars".

The one lawyer who posted here as I recall moved to the Caribbean Islands and we haven't heard from him since. He most likely would have argued
against your comments by manipulating some obscure loophole. :D

[John81]

I've read of some attorneys that could no longer be prosecutors because their conscience began eating away at them from all their lies and manipulations in getting people put behind bars. Some switched to being defense attorneys only to find the same corruption on that side of the aisle as well.

I've also read of defense attorneys who gave up high paying jobs because they could no longer live with the fact they were helping to set free dangerous criminals they knew were guilty.

Even so, those who have done this are few. It seems most attorneys don't really care about right or wrong, guilt or innocense, only in gaining recognition as a winner and building large bank accounts.

Of course, some people in various other professions are the same way.

[rancher824]

We have a couple shady Christian businessmen around this little town. Most locals know to beware because both men will charge far more than anyone else around for their services.

We do have one solid Christian businessman in our town. He attends our church and for all of his services he charges only a tiny amount over expenses. He did a small job for me one year and charged me 6 dollars while others in the area were charging 20 or more for the exact same thing.

Not meaning to disagree, or question to deep, but are you sure it is "the exact same thing?" What I am getting at is that in my area there are guys who do the same thing as I do for much less money. But they do not do the "exact same thing." I try hard to put lots of quality into my work when I build a house. They try to put up a house that looks good at a glance. I just finished a job that I was called into after one of these had started it. It almost got away from him, trying to lay back down. Another contractor was called in to stabilize and brace it. I then came in to do the cabinets and trim. Another example is that I loose work to guys who put 1/2" material where I put 3/4" to make a better cabinet. Theirs is cheaper because it is cheaper!!! Another thought is that a man who is retired and doing something as a hobby can do it much cheaper than a man raising a family. Plus if the price is given up front, that would not fit into being liars, or even dishonest.

[John81]

Not meaning to disagree, or question to deep, but are you sure it is "the exact same thing?" What I am getting at is that in my area there are guys who do the same thing as I do for much less money. But they do not do the "exact same thing." I try hard to put lots of quality into my work when I build a house. They try to put up a house that looks good at a glance. I just finished a job that I was called into after one of these had started it. It almost got away from him, trying to lay back down. Another contractor was called in to stabilize and brace it. I then came in to do the cabinets and trim. Another example is that I loose work to guys who put 1/2" material where I put 3/4" to make a better cabinet. Theirs is cheaper because it is cheaper!!! Another thought is that a man who is retired and doing something as a hobby can do it much cheaper than a man raising a family. Plus if the price is given up front, that would not fit into being liars, or even dishonest.

I understand what you area getting at. In the cases I was referring to here, yes it was the exact same thing.

We did have two other businesses in town, one conducting business of quality, along the lines you describe, and charging reasonable rates; while the other provided shoddy quality and inflated prices. Eventually the shoddy business folded as experience and word finally got around.

We have a man in town who, when he's unemployed, will do home repair work, charging about half of what others do. He does excellent work in a timely manner. Then there are those who travel around the area doing home repairs and they charge less than many others but the material they use is typically of poor quality and their work is rushed to completion rather than done only as quickly as quality work can be done.

[farouk]

Ms Linda:

I do strongly sympathize with your situation. Truth is supposed to be the very principle which binds together the administration of laws.

I guess I've been around lawyers. There are one or two points which I've also observed.

However earnestly a lawyer seems to argue in favor of his or her client's position, it is a recognized thing that the lawyer him- or herself is ultimately not responsible for the arguments used to defend the client, but rather is acting on the instruction of the client. A derived point from this is that he or she is understood by a court to be able to work with information which is only as good and accurate as the client has told him or her.

Sometimes a qualified lawyer in his or her own practice has more leeway to guide the direction in which cases go, without resorting to underhand methods. This suggests to me that it's not the profession which is inherently unethical, but what individual practitioners make of it may sometimes be unethical.

Part of the problem lies also in the culture of some very conservative churches, whereby so many things may be seen in terms of knee-jerk reactions in stark, black-and-white terms that admit to few shades of grey. Whereas the Bible has plenty of things which are absolutely clear, but also plenty of other things which admit to shades of clarity and meaning. Someone accustomed to starkly reactive modes of thinking might find it hard to admit even to the existence of either subtle complexities of meaning, or at least the possibility of a broadening of responsibility for cases and legal arguments.

Actually I think it's far more sinister when a prosecutor bends the truth. I'm talking about criminal cases now. A lawyer will typically say about an accused client, that he or she doesn't need to prove anything. The onus is entirely on the prosecution to put together a compelling case. A derived aspect of this is that a lawyer can't even pretend to have the whole truth. 'My client instructs' is a term which, although it may not be used, does underlie so much of what the lawyer does.

(Two cents'.) Blessings.

Edited July 18, 2011 by farouk

[JerryNumbers]

Sad that some thinks that the Conservative Churches are the problem. Actually Jesus was very Conservative, as well as His disciples that went on to be apostles.

Just a few years back Rick Warren stated that the problems in American can be traced to the Fundamental Muslims and Fundamental Christians. I suppose there might be at least a few around here that would agree with him not only on one point, but both points.

As far as building contractors if not closely watched they will cut corners in order to have more profit, and these people don't mind paying off the inspectors to look the other way, not the government officials in order to get the contract.

[farouk]

Actually I think also that the influence of conservative, Gospel preaching churches has in many ways been very good.

I guess this is a slightly different aspect, though.