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The sin of sending your kids to public schools


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If you could use something a bit more apples to apples, think of it like this. I'm guessing you wouldn't send your kids to a school where they were forced to smoke cigarettes. Cigs are physically harmful--most Bible believers would agree. Well, evolution and humanism are spiritually harmful. I would think that would be more important by far.

This example is even more outrageous. I agree that evolution and humanism are spiritually harmful...but, again, these things cannot be "forced" on a child whose heart and mind are stayed on Christ. (To say otherwise is to say that Satan is more powerful than God.) You have to acknowledge the possibility that a child can go to a public school and not allow the philosophies of the world to find lodging in his heart. And, the minute you do that, you have just admitted that public school attendance is not "sin" for every person.

Let me give you a personal example, and ask you about your take on it. I know a solid Christian family (they are my neighbors and coworkers, actually) who have sent their daughter to the local public high school for the last few years (she is now a rising senior). I talk to this girl all the time. She is one of the sweetest kids I know. She dresses modestly, does not listen to any rock/pop music, regularly brings friends from her school to church activities, and is willing to take F's on tests rather than parrot all of the junk the teacher is throwing out. (So far, the teachers have been so kind as to give her alternate assignments, so she has been able to maintain high grades.) She speaks out in class, and has even confronted fellow Christian students at the public school (privately, of course) for their un-Christlike behavior. She has a strong and vibrant testimony; everyone knows she is a Christian. She has taken some heat for it (persecuted for righteousness' sake), but her faith has remained unshaken. Her parents meet regularly with the school administration and teachers, and have formed "redemptive relationships" with many of them. People have been pointed to Christ as a result of interacting with this family. So, my question for you is this: Is it a sin for her parents to send her to the public school? If so, why? She is not "listening to" the worldly philosophies. She is having the privilege of suffering for Christ. Her walk with God has deepened as a result of having to trust Him to get her through every hour. She is, in many ways, more mature spiritually than most kids her age. Yet, according to you, she is "living in sin"?

Look, Captain, I totally agree that it is unwise (and, yes, maybe even sin for some) to just throw kids into the public school by default, without even considering other options. I get that public school poses many dangers to kids, and I am not ever planning to send my kids to one. But calling it "sin" across the board for every person is too hasty; it does not take into account the circumstances of each family, nor their spiritual strength, nor the strength of Him who has overcome the world. If it is possible for even one child to come out of public school stronger spiritually than when he went in, then your entire argument crumbles. Edited by Annie
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Indeed, more than enough Scripture has been put forth yet it's like Dr. Rice used to say, if some choose to ignore the Word, they won't be able to hear the Holy Ghost telling them the same thing.

A Christian parent can't even abide by Proverbs 22:6 if they are sending their children to public school to be educated, indoctrinated and trained by the ungodly, anti-Christian, worldly public school. The public school is the virtual opposite of everything Christian.


I am astounded that you say I choose to ignore the Word, when in fact for any biblical issue being debated, I have set forth my beliefs and used Scripture to explain it, yet you constantly ignore the Scripture I quote because you do not like it. A bit of a double standard?

Jesus has commanded us to be salt and light of the world. We are to live "in the world, but not of the world." How can we live in the world if we are not highly involved in our communities? How can we be in the world if we completely segregate ourselves from other people who do not believe as we do? How can you look at the life of Jesus, who constantly dined with tax collectors, theives, prostitutes, and other outcasts, and who was accused of being a drunkard himself due to being around these people, and say we are not to be involved in our community and reach out to people and really get to know them?

I am curious, do you know the principal of your local elementary school or high school? Have you talked to the teachers educating the children? Have you talked to the school board? Have you expressed your concerns to find out if they are founded or not? Or do you just listen to right wing national media who tell you public schools are bad? All public schools are not created equal. They great thing about it is, they are locally controlled, and can be changed. I am not saying all children belong in public schools, as there are great reasons to homeschool or go to private school, but public schools are great for many people.

So to say that I am ignoring Scripture is absurd. I have quoted examples of Daniel, of Joseph, and others who are examples of being "in the world but not of the world," and being "salt and light." I have cited the example of Jesus. I can go on and on. Yet you choose to ignore my citations simply because you do not like them.

Your mind is closed and you are not even willing to listen, so I will quite trying to explain this to a brick wall.
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They do not have to both be apples. The comparison works because they are both Bible issues. My point is that one (the sin of sending kids to public schools) is easier to prove Biblically than the other. If you are a baptist, you would ostensibly be holding to a teaching that is weaker than the one in question. I may have failed to convince you, but then it's not my job.

If you could use something a bit more apples to apples, think of it like this. I'm guessing you wouldn't send your kids to a school where they were forced to smoke cigarettes. Cigs are physically harmful--most Bible believers would agree. Well, evolution and humanism are spiritually harmful. I would think that would be more important by far.



Sorry, I must have misread your post.

One thing I have noticed, when we grew up with something, we hate to get out of the comfort zone it has created around us. We are good at defending it so we can stay in that comfort zone.

Its in my later years, the last 10 or so years, that I have realized how evil public school really has been.






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One thing about Joseph, is that he had godly character. He already had a godly foundation befiore he was taken into custody by the Egyptians. Daniel too, was a Godly, praying child when he was taken into Babylonian captivity. Moses was actually "nursed" by his Jewish mother. But all of these situations were the result of slavery. We, in the US, are not slaves and are free to homeschool if we choose. I say, be thankful to our God for freedom and don't take it for granted. It could be taken away tomorrow.

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Whew! This thread feels like it's going around and around in circles! Guess I'll jump on the merry-go-round...


OK. I'll give you the goes without saying part in not valid. I disagree about media bias being instruction. You are way off there. Really seems like you are trying to get out of the obvious interpretation. Is that possible?


Media bias is most definitely a form of instruction. Satan is the prince of this world, and he is actively working through the secular world system to turn people's hearts away from God & His Word. The "powers that be" are bent on indoctrinating us toward a liberal, anti-Biblical, evolutionary, feminist (any more labels?) worldview. Why? Because those that believe in evolution, those that reject Biblical authority structures and reject the Biblical values we call 'conservative' are by their very worldview preconditioned to reject God's truth. The eduction system is most definitely used toward this end - no argument there. That's why pretty much everyone on here is agreeing that it's a bad idea to send your kids to public school. :wink But the education system is not Satan's only means of attack! The constant repetition of liberal bias we get from the media, public entertainment, even our 'politically-correct' public officials is all part of his method of 'training' us, if you will, away from God's way and worldview. If that isn't education, I don't know what is.

I guess that's my whole point. I believe I can be adamant when I say it is against God's Word to use the public school based on the verse in my op. My only trouble was with how to handle those who are too poor and/or don't have time to home school.


It seems like you're advocating a double standard here. Either it's a sin for everyone, or it's not. It can't be wrong for almost everyone, but okay for those who are too poor or otherwise unsituated. And there are definitely those who can not homeschool! Not as many, I think, as those who think they can't homeschool, but still...

For the record, I hate public education (and that includes public school curriculum used by homeschoolers :twocents: ). I think it's one of the worse things you can do to your kids. However, I disagree with your 'across-the-board' statement that it is automatically a sin.

Romans 14 speaks to controversial issues such as this. Let's take a look at it:

Rom.14
[1] Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
[2] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
[3] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
[4] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
[5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
[7] For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
[8] For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
[9] For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
[10] But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[11] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[12] So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[13] Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[14] I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[15] But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
[16] Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[17] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[18] For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
[19] Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
[20] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
[21] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
[22] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
[23] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


We are told to be sure that whatever we do choose to do is decided in faith - being fully persuaded in our own mind that this is something that God is allowing in our life, and also being sure that in it we are not causing another Christian to stumble (assuming of course that there is no direct prohibition toward this in the Bible). If we aren't sure that said thing is right - then it is sin for us. So perhaps we can apply this to the topic by saying that sending your kids to public school may be a sin for some, but not necessarily for others.

Am I right on my exegesis here?
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Whew! This thread feels like it's going around and around in circles! Guess I'll jump on the merry-go-round...



Media bias is most definitely a form of instruction. Satan is the prince of this world, and he is actively working through the secular world system to turn people's hearts away from God & His Word. The "powers that be" are bent on indoctrinating us toward a liberal, anti-Biblical, evolutionary, feminist (any more labels?) worldview. Why? Because those that believe in evolution, those that reject Biblical authority structures and reject the Biblical values we call 'conservative' are by their very worldview preconditioned to reject God's truth. The eduction system is most definitely used toward this end - no argument there. That's why pretty much everyone on here is agreeing that it's a bad idea to send your kids to public school. :wink But the education system is not Satan's only means of attack! The constant repetition of liberal bias we get from the media, public entertainment, even our 'politically-correct' public officials is all part of his method of 'training' us, if you will, away from God's way and worldview. If that isn't education, I don't know what is.



It seems like you're advocating a double standard here. Either it's a sin for everyone, or it's not. It can't be wrong for almost everyone, but okay for those who are too poor or otherwise unsituated. And there are definitely those who can not homeschool! Not as many, I think, as those who think they can't homeschool, but still...

For the record, I hate public education (and that includes public school curriculum used by homeschoolers :twocents: ). I think it's one of the worse things you can do to your kids. However, I disagree with your 'across-the-board' statement that it is automatically a sin.

Romans 14 speaks to controversial issues such as this. Let's take a look at it:



We are told to be sure that whatever we do choose to do is decided in faith - being fully persuaded in our own mind that this is something that God is allowing in our life, and also being sure that in it we are not causing another Christian to stumble (assuming of course that there is no direct prohibition toward this in the Bible). If we aren't sure that said thing is right - then it is sin for us. So perhaps we can apply this to the topic by saying that sending your kids to public school may be a sin for some, but not necessarily for others.

Am I right on my exegesis here?


I would say so.
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Whew! This thread feels like it's going around and around in circles! Guess I'll jump on the merry-go-round...



Media bias is most definitely a form of instruction. Satan is the prince of this world, and he is actively working through the secular world system to turn people's hearts away from God & His Word. The "powers that be" are bent on indoctrinating us toward a liberal, anti-Biblical, evolutionary, feminist (any more labels?) worldview. Why? Because those that believe in evolution, those that reject Biblical authority structures and reject the Biblical values we call 'conservative' are by their very worldview preconditioned to reject God's truth. The eduction system is most definitely used toward this end - no argument there. That's why pretty much everyone on here is agreeing that it's a bad idea to send your kids to public school. :wink But the education system is not Satan's only means of attack! The constant repetition of liberal bias we get from the media, public entertainment, even our 'politically-correct' public officials is all part of his method of 'training' us, if you will, away from God's way and worldview. If that isn't education, I don't know what is.



It seems like you're advocating a double standard here. Either it's a sin for everyone, or it's not. It can't be wrong for almost everyone, but okay for those who are too poor or otherwise unsituated. And there are definitely those who can not homeschool! Not as many, I think, as those who think they can't homeschool, but still...

For the record, I hate public education (and that includes public school curriculum used by homeschoolers :twocents: ). I think it's one of the worse things you can do to your kids. However, I disagree with your 'across-the-board' statement that it is automatically a sin.

Romans 14 speaks to controversial issues such as this. Let's take a look at it:



We are told to be sure that whatever we do choose to do is decided in faith - being fully persuaded in our own mind that this is something that God is allowing in our life, and also being sure that in it we are not causing another Christian to stumble (assuming of course that there is no direct prohibition toward this in the Bible). If we aren't sure that said thing is right - then it is sin for us. So perhaps we can apply this to the topic by saying that sending your kids to public school may be a sin for some, but not necessarily for others.

Am I right on my exegesis here?


I still disagree about the media bias. As to the double standard, I do think you are right. Thus, it is a sin across the board rich or poor.

Now the only thing I'm having doubts about is Annie's post. I think there might be an exception made if the parent is convinced that his/her child is established in the faith and is going with sort of a ministry-minded approach. I think this would probably only ever be in the way upper grades and less than 1% of professing Christians that age would even qualify. Maturity like that would be about the same level as being comfortable with them leaving the house and being out on their own, so it really doesn't have to apply to our discussion. Except, you will probably respond by saying this is a double standard. I would just say that if you have raised a child to that point, you've earned a "well done" as far as I'm concerned.
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Whew! This thread feels like it's going around and around in circles! Guess I'll jump on the merry-go-round...



Media bias is most definitely a form of instruction. Satan is the prince of this world, and he is actively working through the secular world system to turn people's hearts away from God & His Word. The "powers that be" are bent on indoctrinating us toward a liberal, anti-Biblical, evolutionary, feminist (any more labels?) worldview. Why? Because those that believe in evolution, those that reject Biblical authority structures and reject the Biblical values we call 'conservative' are by their very worldview preconditioned to reject God's truth. The eduction system is most definitely used toward this end - no argument there. That's why pretty much everyone on here is agreeing that it's a bad idea to send your kids to public school. :wink But the education system is not Satan's only means of attack! The constant repetition of liberal bias we get from the media, public entertainment, even our 'politically-correct' public officials is all part of his method of 'training' us, if you will, away from God's way and worldview. If that isn't education, I don't know what is.



It seems like you're advocating a double standard here. Either it's a sin for everyone, or it's not. It can't be wrong for almost everyone, but okay for those who are too poor or otherwise unsituated. And there are definitely those who can not homeschool! Not as many, I think, as those who think they can't homeschool, but still...

For the record, I hate public education (and that includes public school curriculum used by homeschoolers :twocents: ). I think it's one of the worse things you can do to your kids. However, I disagree with your 'across-the-board' statement that it is automatically a sin.

Romans 14 speaks to controversial issues such as this. Let's take a look at it:



We are told to be sure that whatever we do choose to do is decided in faith - being fully persuaded in our own mind that this is something that God is allowing in our life, and also being sure that in it we are not causing another Christian to stumble (assuming of course that there is no direct prohibition toward this in the Bible). If we aren't sure that said thing is right - then it is sin for us. So perhaps we can apply this to the topic by saying that sending your kids to public school may be a sin for some, but not necessarily for others.

Am I right on my exegesis here?


You can have all the faith you want that something is right in the sight of God, yet, if its a sin against God, its still going to be a sin against God.
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I still disagree about the media bias. As to the double standard, I do think you are right. Thus, it is a sin across the board rich or poor.

Now the only thing I'm having doubts about is Annie's post. I think there might be an exception made if the parent is convinced that his/her child is established in the faith and is going with sort of a ministry-minded approach. I think this would probably only ever be in the way upper grades and less than 1% of professing Christians that age would even qualify. Maturity like that would be about the same level as being comfortable with them leaving the house and being out on their own, so it really doesn't have to apply to our discussion. Except, you will probably respond by saying this is a double standard. I would just say that if you have raised a child to that point, you've earned a "well done" as far as I'm concerned.




Have you ever noticed, when a child of God starts running, hanging out with, wordily people, the majority of the time they will pull him or her away from God, not pull them to God.


Remember, a little leaven levels the whole ;lump.

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Besides;

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

We are to be a separate, a peculiar people, if we hang out with, run with, worldly people, we cannot be a separate, peculiar people.






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[


Have you ever noticed, when a child of God starts running, hanging out with, wordily people, the majority of the time they will pull him or her away from God, not pull them to God.


Remember, a little leaven levels the whole ;lump.

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Besides;

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

We are to be a separate, a peculiar people, if we hang out with, run with, worldly people, we cannot be a separate, peculiar people.



I could not do it in good conscience because of the evolution part, but aside from that would it not be similar to taking a secular job at a factory say?
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Are you not amazed, even surprised at the things that someone you consider to be a good Christians does?

And as for public school, most Christians attended public school, their children attended public school, and their children attend public school. And there is not no direct commandment in the Bible saying 'Thou shalt not attend public school,' so they see nothing wrong with it, and feel things should go as it has with their parents, and their self, and their children.

Plus it would cause a change in life style for both husband and wife, sacrifices even, if their were to start home schooling and or send their children to a good Christian school, not counting the responsibly they would take on.

And if they sent their children to a good Christian school, that would cause them to make some financial sacrifices, perhaps financial sacrifices they're not willing to make.

Plus, if they did home schooling or even Christian school, they might feel their children would miss out on to many things, being a football player or other sports, being cheerleader, being in the band, and so on.

I can see how an immature Christian might not understand this.

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You can't forget Christians in other nations who have no choice but to send their children to a public school. For instance, in China or Germany. Are they sinning because of this? I think we put burdens on the shoulders of believers, particularly the poor, and wouldn't move one finger to help them with the burden. This isn't of the Lord. Not every believer in the world is a middle class American who resides in the South. When I lived in Upstate, NY I had to drive 45 miles (one way) to attend the only IFB church around that I knew of (and I looked long and hard for them including writing other IFB churches if they new of any) and that church did not have a school. If you wanted to get your kids out of school you had to homeschool. And at that time, maybe it's different now, it wasn't easy in New York to pull this off. I believe one of the parents had to be a college grad to do this as well as you still had to meet state educational requirements. Some states I heard it is even more difficult and in some other countries probably impossible to homeschool your kids. I guess you could stand up to the state but then you would probably lose your kids. Add to this that if it's a single parent household, both parents are uneducated or have to work. Most unsympatheitc responses to these situations is that they should just pack up and move.

The bottomline is if you can send your kids to a Christian school or homeschooled then you should do it if you feel that's what God wants and it's in your power to do it. But don't judge those who don't. unless you want to help them with their finances. To his own master he stands or fall.

Edited by Wilchbla
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You can't forget Christians in other nations who have no choice but to send their children to a public school. For instance, in China or Germany. Are they sinning because of this? I think we put burdens on the shoulders of believers, particularly the poor, and wouldn't move one finger to help them with the burden. This isn't of the Lord. Not every believer in the world is a middle class American who resides in the South. When I lived in Upstate, NY I had to drive 45 miles (one way) to attend the only IFB church around that I knew of (and I looked long and hard for them including writing other IFB churches if they new of any) and that church did not have a school. If you wanted to get your kids out of school you had to homeschool. And at that time, maybe it's different now, it wasn't easy in New York to pull this off. I believe one of the parents had to be a college grad to do this as well as you still had to meet state educational requirements. Some states I heard it is even more difficult and in some other countries probably impossible to homeschool your kids. I guess you could stand up to the state but then you would probably lose your kids. Add to this that if it's a single parent household, both parents are uneducated or have to work. Most unsympatheitc responses to these situations is that they should just pack up and move.

The bottomline is if you can send your kids to a Christian school or homeschooled then you should do it if you feel that's what God wants and it's in your power to do it. But don't judge those who don't. unless you want to help them with their finances. To his own master he stands or fall.



Why would moving be an unsympathetic burden? We are talking about the souls of our children here.
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