A Study of Morality

[newnature]

At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price.

The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal.

Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Because of the length of these reasoning’s, read more at,

http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=12

Thanks for any insight.

[JerryNumbers]

God did not have to punt the ball, He knew exactly what was going to happen, and plans were already made. God does not ever have to punt.

Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Plus, Adam tried to blame God, yet that did not work.

Ge 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

And of course, Adam is the responsible party, held accountable, just as the man is held responsible for his household today. a responsibility he seems not to want, and most do not heed.

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

There may need to be other things pointed out to.

[Salyan]

Also, if the serpent was only an animal, and not used of/indwelt by Satan, the prophecy that the Seed of the woman would have his heel bruised by and would crush the head of the serpent (Satan) would lose its efficacy.

[newnature]

Also, if the serpent was only an animal, and not used of/indwelt by Satan, the prophecy that the Seed of the woman would have his heel bruised by and would crush the head of the serpent (Satan) would lose its efficacy.

I tried to use figures of speech on that punt the ball-

Ezekiel 28:11-15; Ezekiel charges that the king of Tyre has overstepped his bounds, because of his wealth; this king deemed his mind equal to a god’s? Ezekiel is picturing this king as a quasi-mythical being in a bejeweled garden of Eden. The king boasts of his wisdom and beauty; Ezekiel employs the imagery of the garden of Eden story to describe the Tyrian king’s downfall. Ezekiel employs the imagery of the cherub to stress the Tyrian king’s power and high position; same as the once-perfect creature is shown to have sinned and therefore was struck down. But the figurative language Ezekiel is using is of a story of a garden of Eden, that Yahweh caused to grow on the earth, while the earth was in the first heaven. Although Ezekiel is telling all this to a Tyrian king, the story Ezekiel is using is neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of figures of speech.

Ezekiel tells in this garden story, that their was an individual that was a once-perfect creature. Yet, all the confusion of thought about this individual, have arisen from taking literally what is expressed by figures, or from taking figuratively what is literal. A figure of speech is never used except for the purpose of calling attention to, emphasizing, and intensifying, the reality of the literal sense, and the truth of the historical facts; so that, while the words employed may not be so strictly true to the letter, they are all the more true to the truth conveyed by them, and to the historical events connected with them. Here the story Ezekiel used of an individual--You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and flawless in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of Yahweh; every precious stone was your adornment; carnelian, chrysolite, and amethyst; beryl, lapis lazuli, and jasper; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald; and gold beautifully wrought for you, mined for you, prepared the day you were created. I created you as a cherub with outstretched shielding wings, and you resided on Yahweh’s holy mountain; you walked among stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways, from the day you were created, until wrongdoing was found in you. Yes, wrongdoing was found in Lucifer. Seen Lucifer had a plan afloat.

The serpent is to lose his legs, slither in the dirt, and suffer from the hostility of human beings. Genesis 3:15-I will put enmity between you and the woman. And between your offspring and hers; they shall strike at your head, and you shall strike at their heel. Edited May 7, 2011 by newnature

[Salyan]

Sorry, but you're going to have to use the KJV to prove your points on this board. We won't accept any other version as being authoritative. ;)

[Guest]

Sorry, but you're going to have to use the KJV to prove your points on this board. We won't accept any other version as being authoritative.

newnature, this is just a recommendation but, I would stick to the Bible for studying God's word, not that site you listed.
Jerry made two very good points in his reply.

I also hear sirens going off over this statement, "The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age." It almost makes it sound as if man can redeem himself through morality.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Then there is this falacy, "Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal."

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I didn't visit the web site but its as if they are attempting to say; Put your mind at ease, there is no devil, and man's sinfulness is only a moral delimma which man can control. Edited May 7, 2011 by 1Tim115

[JerryNumbers]

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.


Somewhere is there I remember reading the words 'wrong doing was found in you,' I disagree with that, it was clearly 'iniquity,' 'sin,' seems in modern day there's a movement to remove the words, iniquity and sin. The truth is sin and iniquity was found in him.

"Yahweh learned immediately after creating this unique being, that he will exercise his free will against Yahweh. "

I 100% disagree with this from that site, our all knowing God has never learned anything, why do I say that, because He has always been all knowing.

I too would suggest its a site to stay away from.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Jerry80871852

[Invicta]

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.


Somewhere is there I remember reading the words 'wrong doing was found in you,' I disagree with that, it was clearly 'iniquity,' 'sin,' seems in modern day there's a movement to remove the words, iniquity and sin. The truth is sin and iniquity was found in him.

"Yahweh learned immediately after creating this unique being, that he will exercise his free will against Yahweh. "

I 100% disagree with this from that site, our all knowing God has never learned anything, why do I say that, because He has always been all knowing.

I too would suggest its a site to stay away from.

Yes and the spelling is YHVH.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Praise God that God made a provision from the foundations of the world for those trapped in inquity and immorality! Jesus Christ is that provision.

[Annie]

But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with.

Do you really think that Yahweh had to "modify his plans"? And why did God separate man from partaking from the tree of life? It cannot have been that man (the created) posed any "danger" to the ominpotent creator, or that humans were "a force to be reckoned with," and that, therefore, God "could not afford to allow them access" to the tree. Rather, it was an act of mercy on God's part. Think of the despair it would have been for Adam and Eve to live forever as sinful creatures, with no hope of an end to life on an earth which their sin had cursed.

[JerryNumbers]

Yes and the spelling is YHVH.

That which is in bold letters above, is not my statement, its from that site he posted. I do not use the term Yahweh, And as I said, I disagree with that statement, and I would suggest everyone stay away from it.