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Frank Garlock

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I'm happy to see there isn't any self righteousness in this thread.


Checking what the Bible teaches, against what a man teaches, is not self righteousness, its known as dividing the truth, & God tells us to study the Bible so that we can divide the truth and not be ashamed. When we can divide the truth, & accept false teaching, that is shame on us. Why?

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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The man your holding up started his own brand of a church, the one Jesus founded was not good enough for him, & he also filled it with false teachings. Its easy to know it was filled with false teachings, just check it against the teachings frond in the Bible.



Checking what the Bible teaches, against what a man teaches, is not self righteousness, its known as dividing the truth, & God tells us to study the Bible so that we can divide the truth and not be ashamed. When we can divide the truth, & accept false teaching, that is shame on us. Why?

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.

Hmm...
God used Abraham and Issacc both liars, Moses a murderer, and Paul the Apostle...

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Edited by 1Tim115

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Hmm...
God used Abraham and Issacc both liars, Moses a murderer, and Paul the Apostle...

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.


Here is some study helps on knowing about the churches Jesus started. If you will go though them studying, along with the use of your Bible, them you can tell what kind of church that man started, & know he ignore Jesus' Churches in order to found his own brand of churches.

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Here is some study helpson knowing about the churches Jesus started. If you will go though them studying, along with the use of your Bible, them you can tell what kind of church that man started, & know he ignore Jesus' Churches in order to found his own brand of churches.


Hey Jerry, thanks! But, I'll let you study them and then you can report back on anything you learn. I've got too much study of God's word backed up and it would be way down the list for me.

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The man your holding up started his own brand of a church, the one Jesus founded was not good enough for him, & he also filled it with false teachings. Its easy to know it was filled with false teachings, just check it against the teachings frond in the Bible.


Jerry, you are mistaking my intentions here. I am using Wesley as an illustration. The OP asks us about Frank Garlock, and if God is using him.....I say "YES" and you say "I don't know because I have never met him."
My point about Wesley is this: God may use people that WE wouldn't - and that is HIS perogative... not ours. I am fully aware of the doctrinal points that we would differ with Wesley on....but I didn't see any BAPTISTS preaching and having such a great impact during that same period of time....they opened the doors for the Baptists to play a vital role in the saving of England, world missions, and American Independence.
So I am not "holding him up" as any kind of man to be worshipped, idolized, etc. We can learn lessons from Wesley (some good lessons and some bad lessons), and God will use any man who preaches the right gospel from the right Bible. Wesley did...even though he was screwed up on other issues.
God used J. Hudson Taylor to open the doors to the interior of China....Baptists didn't get on board that train until he was well into his ministry there.
God used the Congregationalist Jonathan Edwards to preach one of the greatest sermons of all time: Sinners in the hands of an angry God.
God used the Cogregationalist Billy Sunday to help bring in Prohibition.

I am NOT endorsing these men, their doctrine, their practices, or their ecclesiology. I am merely stating the facts as they are.

Remember Phil. 1:12-18??? Is not our Saviour honored, glorified, and pleased when a man preaches salvation, and souls are saved?
And isn't God honored, glorified, and pleased when a man gives us proper instruction on Biblical music, and then even gives us more Scripturally-based music for our edification?

Frank Garlock may not be 100% correct on every iota he teaches about music - but he is Baptist, he is teaching the truth, and he is teaching what the Scriptures say correctly. How could God NOT be pleased with that?

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I will let God decided this, not myself, for I cannot read the heart.

As for the Methodist, they have never been right, they were wrong in the beginning, & they're still wrong.

Now, I know a few men personally, that I would state, God seemed to use them, but the men I speak of I have been around personally, Mr Wesley, & Mr. Garlock, I never spent one single moment around them. so I don't know if God used them or not, & I surely will not proclaim they were used greatly by God, I will let God decide that.

Now, I will point you to some men that God has used, just go read Hebrews 11, & believe it, for its in the Bible.

As for Mr. Wesley, he founded a false church that abounded in false teachings, that taught commandments of men for commandments of God.


Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Believe the Bible, take what is written outside of it with a grain of salt, & do not procliam it to be truth, nor of God.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



Truth is of the most importance, we have it, within the pages of the Bible, follow that, not people such as Mr. Wesley or Garlock, and if you want to elevate anyone, why not elevate our Father, & His Son, give them all the glory, if you do, you can't go wrong with that, leaving the other in God's hands.


:clapping::amen::sSig_praiseGod:

AMEN! It just doesn't get any better than that Jerry. Plain, straight-forward...TRUTH!

The B-I-B-L-E. Yes, that's the book for me. I'll stand alone on the word of God. The B-I-B-L-E. :)

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Jerry, you are mistaking my intentions here. I am using Wesley as an illustration. The OP asks us about Frank Garlock, and if God is using him.....I say "YES" and you say "I don't know because I have never met him."
My point about Wesley is this: God may use people that WE wouldn't - and that is HIS perogative... not ours. I am fully aware of the doctrinal points that we would differ with Wesley on....but I didn't see any BAPTISTS preaching and having such a great impact during that same period of time....they opened the doors for the Baptists to play a vital role in the saving of England, world missions, and American Independence.
So I am not "holding him up" as any kind of man to be worshipped, idolized, etc. We can learn lessons from Wesley (some good lessons and some bad lessons), and God will use any man who preaches the right gospel from the right Bible. Wesley did...even though he was screwed up on other issues.
God used J. Hudson Taylor to open the doors to the interior of China....Baptists didn't get on board that train until he was well into his ministry there.
God used the Congregationalist Jonathan Edwards to preach one of the greatest sermons of all time: Sinners in the hands of an angry God.
God used the Cogregationalist Billy Sunday to help bring in Prohibition.

I am NOT endorsing these men, their doctrine, their practices, or their ecclesiology. I am merely stating the facts as they are.

Remember Phil. 1:12-18??? Is not our Saviour honored, glorified, and pleased when a man preaches salvation, and souls are saved?
And isn't God honored, glorified, and pleased when a man gives us proper instruction on Biblical music, and then even gives us more Scripturally-based music for our edification?

Frank Garlock may not be 100% correct on every iota he teaches about music - but he is Baptist, he is teaching the truth, and he is teaching what the Scriptures say correctly. How could God NOT be pleased with that?


Between the post above...and this post below I would say you're right on target.

And OF COURSE I recognize that it is GOD doing the work through men.....God uses men to accomplish His will. We don't glorify men, we glorify God. But sometimes God uses men that WE don't approve of, and sometimes that offends our sensibilities. Instead of giving God the Glory for what God did through an "unapproved" man like Wesley, I find too many people refusing to acknowledge God's use of the "unapproved man" by saying we should not talk about men but God only......To me, that's a cop-out.


WHo would have ever approved of Paul if they were intimate with his previous life of hatred and persecution of Christians?

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Hey Jerry, thanks! But, I'll let you study them and then you can report back on anything you learn. I've got too much study of God's word backed up and it would be way down the list for me.


I've already done so, years ago, for I wanted the truth about Jesus Churches, where they came from, who makes them up, if you don't think that worthy of your time, that is up to you. Of course God's whole truth ought to be of the utmost importance to anyone that serves God in any manner.

In reply to the remarks about Paul, Paul did not start up, found, a church on himself, that was full of false teachings, but Mr. Wesley did. With the Bible, then obey God, you can know everything you need to know about the church Jesus founded, & with it you can tell the difference between a false teaching churches, & a true New Testament Church. Without it, no telling who you will support. Edited by Jerry80871852

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I've already done so, years ago, for I wanted the truth about Jesus Churches, where they came from, who makes them up, if you don't think that worthy of your time, that is up to you. Of course God's whole truth ought to be of the utmost importance to anyone that serves God in any manner.

In reply to the remarks about Paul, Paul did not start up, found, a church on himself, that was full of false teachings, but Mr. Wesley did. With the Bible, then obey God, you can know everything you need to know about the church Jesus founded, & with it you can tell the difference between a false teaching churches, & a true New Testament Church. Without it, no telling who you will support.


Why Jerry, you're not implying God's truth isn't important to me are you? Of course the Baptist distinctives are interesting, I'm a Baptist! But they pale in comparison to my current study of Christ's ministry before, during and after the cross, not something you pass over lightly. I'll spend my time here studying Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the work of the Holy Spirit in ME. I would suggest the same to anyone who would put value on true Christianity, including those who count themselves to have superior wisdom.

After I complete the study of Christ, I'll be studying eschatology. Again, not something to pass over lightly. I'm sure there are many of us lay folk who, although not qualified scripturaly to pastor, have God given knowledge and ability just as much as anyone else.

Many years ago I too studied the Baptist distinctives, I thought they were very important. Now I put a higher value on my personal walk with Jesus Christ. I hope you don't believe you're alone in reading, study and practice of God's word, that would be too presumptuous on your part. You might consider leaving a little room for error just in case you're ever wrong. Of course I could be all wet!

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Hmm...
God used Abraham and Issacc both liars, Moses a murderer, and Paul the Apostle...

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

One of the main differences being, and I'll focus upon Moses and Paul because they were the closest to preachers, is that the murder each was involved in was BEFORE God called them to ministry. From the time of their call, Moses and Paul strove to obey the Lord and do His will.

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One of the main differences being, and I'll focus upon Moses and Paul because they were the closest to preachers, is that the murder each was involved in was BEFORE God called them to ministry. From the time of their call, Moses and Paul strove to obey the Lord and do His will.


However, the failure to obey God is what caused Moses not to enter into the promised land AFTER he was called into the ministry. Now don't we all strive to obey the Lord and do his will as it is revealed to us after we're called? I have no idea what imperfections Paul might have had but I know he harbored ill feelings toward a brother in the faith and that was after his calling.

Why are we discussing this side issue? Isn't this supposed to be about a man named Frank Garlock and the music/teaching of his ministry? This side bar is the result of an attempt to denigrate Garlock because he doesn't meet a personally espoused standard of perfection. The fact is God does use the imperfect and they don't become perfect after surrendering to God's call. If those who would attack Garlock were to be honest, they would admit they've come short at some time in their walk with the Lord.

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However, the failure to obey God is what caused Moses not to enter into the promised land AFTER he was called into the ministry. Now don't we all strive to obey the Lord and do his will as it is revealed to us after we're called? I have no idea what imperfections Paul might have had but I know he harbored ill feelings toward a brother in the faith and that was after his calling.

Why are we discussing this side issue? Isn't this supposed to be about a man named Frank Garlock and the music/teaching of his ministry? This side bar is the result of an attempt to denigrate Garlock because he doesn't meet a personally espoused standard of perfection. The fact is God does use the imperfect and they don't become perfect after surrendering to God's call. If those who would attack Garlock were to be honest, they would admit they've come short at some time in their walk with the Lord.

I don't know who Frank Garlock is or what he does. I was only pointing out that your comparison was not applicable with regards to what it was referring to.

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I don't know who Frank Garlock is or what he does. I was only pointing out that your comparison was not applicable with regards to what it was referring to.


OK, so we're beyond the comparison being applicable after all. I say we move back to Garlock...O.K.?

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Why Jerry, you're not implying God's truth isn't important to me are you? Of course the Baptist distinctives are interesting, I'm a Baptist! But they pale in comparison to my current study of Christ's ministry before, during and after the cross, not something you pass over lightly. I'll spend my time here studying Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the work of the Holy Spirit in ME. I would suggest the same to anyone who would put value on true Christianity, including those who count themselves to have superior wisdom.

After I complete the study of Christ, I'll be studying eschatology. Again, not something to pass over lightly. I'm sure there are many of us lay folk who, although not qualified scripturaly to pastor, have God given knowledge and ability just as much as anyone else.

Many years ago I too studied the Baptist distinctives, I thought they were very important. Now I put a higher value on my personal walk with Jesus Christ. I hope you don't believe you're alone in reading, study and practice of God's word, that would be too presumptuous on your part. You might consider leaving a little room for error just in case you're ever wrong. Of course I could be all wet!


This is the statement you said in your post.

<<"Hey Jerry, thanks! But, I'll let you study them and then you can report back on anything you learn. I've got too much study of God's word backed up and it would be way down the list for me. ">>

You had already disagree with everything I stated in a post I made that you replied to, them you tell me to study it out, them get back to you, what am I suppose to assume?

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Well, I'll take credit for "derailing" the thread. Jerry said he didn't know if God was using Frank Garlock or not because he had never met him. I introduced Wesley to illustrate my point - just because we have not met someone is not the "acid test" as to whether or not God is using someone. And Wesley further illustrates that God will use someone even though they might be wrong on some points. The truth is that we are ALL wrong on some points - including Paul, Peter, the other apostles, and many Baptists throughout history. Just because they are Baptist doesn't mean they are right on every point of doctrine either. Some of the doctrines promoted by different branches of Baptists are extremely contrary to what we believe today...just ask Dr. J. Frank Norris about that!
Garlock might be off-base on some of his supportive points, but most of his teaching is right on target - and the music they produce is excellent - even though I might not agree with him on every little jot and tittle of doctrine. I can appreciate where he is right, and dismiss the rest....just like I can with Wesley, Whitefield, Moody, Sunday, Sam Jones, Mordecai Ham, etc., et al, ad nauseum.

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OK, John, send me a PM with a list of sources that would prove otherwise....


OK, John, send me a PM with a list of sources that would prove otherwise....

John....I am still waiting on that list of sources that would disprove my assertions! Thanks!

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John....I am still waiting on that list of sources that would disprove my assertions! Thanks!

In another thread you put forth that historical proof is no proof, yet in this thread you attempted to support your claims using evidence from history. Inconsistent to say the least. So really, what good would it do to put forth the evidence when you have already indicated in another thread you don't accept historical evidence which contradicts your position? Not to mention much of it has already been posted on OB in various threads.

As well, as pointed out previously, your post was wrong in so many areas it would take at the least a booklet to begin to address it and a good sized book to really get into it. So, if you are really interested in the truth, you could take the time to research each aspect of your post and discover it for yourself, which would be more satisfying and there would be more chance you might accept what you discover on your own.

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This is the statement you said in your post.

<<"Hey Jerry, thanks! But, I'll let you study them and then you can report back on anything you learn. I've got too much study of God's word backed up and it would be way down the list for me. ">>
Yes, my reply was a matter of fact.
You had already disagree with everything I stated in a post I made that you replied to, them you tell me to study it out, them get back to you, what am I suppose to assume?


I have disagreed with statements you've made in the past. I don't know that I disagreed with "everything" you stated in a post. Sometimes its difficult to understand exactly what you are saying.

I don't believe its profitable to make a practice to assume. So, what was the post I disagreed with?

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I started to just leave it go, but it needs corrected.

If you thought I said, you disagree with everything I stated, I did not, I did say you seemed to disagree with everything

And here is what I actually stated.



You had already disagree with everything I stated in a post I made that you replied to, them you tell me to study it out, them get back to you, what am I suppose to assume?


I was referring only to the post you had just replied to.

This is getting no where, I shall try & stay out.

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In another thread you put forth that historical proof is no proof, yet in this thread you attempted to support your claims using evidence from history. Inconsistent to say the least. So really, what good would it do to put forth the evidence when you have already indicated in another thread you don't accept historical evidence which contradicts your position? Not to mention much of it has already been posted on OB in various threads.

As well, as pointed out previously, your post was wrong in so many areas it would take at the least a booklet to begin to address it and a good sized book to really get into it. So, if you are really interested in the truth, you could take the time to research each aspect of your post and discover it for yourself, which would be more satisfying and there would be more chance you might accept what you discover on your own.

John, I am not asking you to write a dissertation to disprove me. If I am wrong, then give me some titles of books to work from. I have documentation for everything I asserted right here on my bookshelf. Give me the titles of some books that would prove me incorrect....that's all I am asking, and it should not be that hard for you to do. What I do with that information is MY business, not yours, so don't worry too much about me "dismissing it." Just worry about giving me some sources for your position so I can check my own facts.

In regards to my "inconsistency" you have forgotten context.
Regarding correct Biblical DOCTRINE, it is difficult to go back through CHURCH History to ascertain the truth on any doctrine, particularly when we only consult the "Church Fathers."
We are not discussing Bible DOCTRINE here, and what I referenced is a matter of HISTORICAL FACT, not Bible Doctrine - and is therefore much more objective and easier to make conclusions from. Edited by Steve Schwenke

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John, I am not asking you to write a dissertation to disprove me. If I am wrong, then give me some titles of books to work from. I have documentation for everything I asserted right here on my bookshelf. Give me the titles of some books that would prove me incorrect....that's all I am asking, and it should not be that hard for you to do. What I do with that information is MY business, not yours, so don't worry too much about me "dismissing it." Just worry about giving me some sources for your position so I can check my own facts.

In regards to my "inconsistency" you have forgotten context.
Regarding correct Biblical DOCTRINE, it is difficult to go back through CHURCH History to ascertain the truth on any doctrine, particularly when we only consult the "Church Fathers."
We are not discussing Bible DOCTRINE here, and what I referenced is a matter of HISTORICAL FACT, not Bible Doctrine - and is therefore much more objective and easier to make conclusions from.

Are you sure you are a pastor?

What we discussed before had nothing to do with the church fathers, it had to do with much more recent events and you dismissed every quote and resource put forth which disputed your preconceived view. An unteachable spirit is a very bad thing to cling to for any of us.

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Are you sure you are a pastor?

What we discussed before had nothing to do with the church fathers, it had to do with much more recent events and you dismissed every quote and resource put forth which disputed your preconceived view. An unteachable spirit is a very bad thing to cling to for any of us.

Very unwise to make such assertions John, since you know so little about me or the ministry here in Amarillo, or the other places I have ministered.
But here is a strange thing...you accuse me of being "unteachable" but when you have the opportunity to simply give me a list of books to help "teach" me, you refuse to do it!!!!
A list of titles, John....it really can't be that hard....but since you refuse to do so, and then change the nature of my request into an accusation of being "unteachable," I can only make one conclusion. You must not HAVE any sources to disprove my assertions, but simply DON'T LIKE it because it crosses your misconceptions of history.

Too bad!
Moving on!

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Very unwise to make such assertions John, since you know so little about me or the ministry here in Amarillo, or the other places I have ministered.
But here is a strange thing...you accuse me of being "unteachable" but when you have the opportunity to simply give me a list of books to help "teach" me, you refuse to do it!!!!
A list of titles, John....it really can't be that hard....but since you refuse to do so, and then change the nature of my request into an accusation of being "unteachable," I can only make one conclusion. You must not HAVE any sources to disprove my assertions, but simply DON'T LIKE it because it crosses your misconceptions of history.

Too bad!
Moving on!

Since you have already proven you are unwilling to accept the truth why should I take the hours to dig into storage and find what you say? If you were truly interested in learning the truth you would do as myself and so many others have done; search for it. The fact you dismiss all facts which disagree with your view is reason enough not to go to great lengths.

I've spent years teaching, both biblical matters as well as history, it's not difficult to discern between those who are truly interested in the truth, those who are ideologues, and those who don't care.

Over the years I've known many pastors and only one displayed an attitude similar to yours. He was a United Methodist pastor and his later end was worse than the first.

A member of my wife's family has visited Liberty Baptist Church so I might know a bit more than you think.

Now, if you don't mind, perhaps the personal stuff could end.

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I started to just leave it go, but it needs corrected.

If you thought I said, you disagree with everything I stated, I did not, I did say you seemed to disagree with everything

And here is what I actually stated.



I was referring only to the post you had just replied to.

This is getting no where, I shall try & stay out.


Yep, I'm still not certain what point you've been trying to make. So, on to more important matters.

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