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Frank Garlock

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What do you guys think of Frank Garlock? I grew up with his music and our church still has his hymnal. Recently, I read an article that makes the case that Dr. Garlock mixes pagan New Age mysticism with the Bible to suport his viewpoints. It gave specific examples and scared me to death.

Is Garlock teach the Bible or just his own opinions?

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Ron Hamilton and Frank Garlock are related. I wouldn't count that as a good argument.

I know Dr. Garlock and have sat through his music seminars. They are excellent and based on Scripture.

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What do you guys think of Frank Garlock? I grew up with his music and our church still has his hymnal. Recently, I read an article that makes the case that Dr. Garlock mixes pagan New Age mysticism with the Bible to suport his viewpoints. It gave specific examples and scared me to death.

Is Garlock teach the Bible or just his own opinions?


Everything that I heard Frank Garlock say about music has been Biblically sound. I would like to read this article you are referring to. If Garlock is changing his music standards, I would like to know.

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I know Frank and Flora Jean Garlock personally. (Some of you may know that they areRon Hamilton's father- and mother-in-law.) I would be interested to read the article and find out what "pagan, New Age mysticism" ideas the author finds in Garlock's work. I would say that some of Garlock's arguments are not specifically based on Scripture, but are rather opinions of someone who has studied music (like a musicologist commenting on the origins of various kinds of music, etc.).

Jimb, could you post the examples you mentioned?

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Jerry, I disagree with Frank Garlock's use of the book Music Physician for Times to Come. I don't believe that such quotations are accurate or necessary to support his teachings. They are based on a faulty understanding of history, science, and astronomy. I agree that he is unwise to use these sources in his teachings.

That said, I agree with Greg Howlett when he says, "Is Garlock a New Age nut? Absolutely not. Is he a theological heretic to mark and avoid? I don't believe that either. He is however a man who is a bit careless when he goes looking for sources to back up his assertions about music."

I think Scott Aniol, another friend of mine, does a far better job defending conservative music. You really should read his book Worship in Song.

EDITED TO ADD: Music is a "science," not just an art. The way that musical pitches and their sound waves/overtones work together is very mathematical and scientifically observable. Since this is true, we shouldn't just dismiss out of hand anything we hear about overtones, energy, etc. Musicology is a serious branch of study, and we should listen to what musicologists tell us about the science of music. That's one reason I like reading Scott Aniol and John Makujina on this subject. Edited by Annie

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Where did you find that quote, Jerry8?


I put that link in, I even previewed the post before posting it, something ate it up, sorry.


Its right here..




I'll give you a tip, for I have done this when something was posted like I did and had no link. If you will do a search for it with these around it, " ", it will generally come up in the number one position of your search.

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I put that link in, I even previewed the post before posting it, something ate it up, sorry.


Its right here..




I'll give you a tip, for I have done this when something was posted like I did and had no link. If you will do a search for it with these around it, " ", it will generally come up in the number one position of your search.

Thanks.

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That is the article I read too. Greg Howlett is an interesting fellow, and a great musician. I don't agree with everything he says, but he really really nails Garlock to the wall in that article.

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That is the article I read too. Greg Howlett is an interesting fellow, and a great musician. I don't agree with everything he says, but he really really nails Garlock to the wall in that article.


I don't know nothing about him either, I found that by searching the web.

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That is the article I read too. Greg Howlett is an interesting fellow, and a great musician. I don't agree with everything he says, but he really really nails Garlock to the wall in that article.

So, Frank Garlock is bad...is CCM good?
Let's think about this for a moment.
Are the Scriptural arguments Garlock used faulty?
Is the music Garlock produces evil?

What exactly is your beef with Garlock? Is it that he removes doubt that CCM and rock music is evil? Or is it something else?
Look, I have my favorite Bible teachers and commentators. However, there isn't one of them that hasn't "gone off the deep end" about something at some point in time. We are fallen creatures, and we all have our faults.
So let's say that Garlock took a wrong turn on one issue of the music debate. Should we then dismiss EVERYTHING he has done to date? That would be like saying we should ignore the work of George Whitefield and John Wesley (not Baptist, supported infant baptism, etc....). They were good men that God used in a special way to open the door for Baptists to grow and spread.
Is your favorite Bible teacher correct on every detail of his Bible teaching?
If the answer to this question is "NO" (and it should be!), then let's give credit where credit is due. Frank Garlock and Ron Hamilton have led the charge against rock music and CCM for as long as I can remember. Edited by Steve Schwenke

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Any men outside of the Bible I will let God decides whether they've been very usable to God or not.

As for John Wesley I do not use any of his material nor would I recommend anyone attend the church he founded, but I would warn them against it & its false teaching if I was asked..

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I believe Mr. Schwenke has correctly stated the issue.

If you listen to Garlock's entire lecture (i did) you see that he is Biblically centered and on target, even if you may not agree with all his supporting resourses.

If you listen to Howlett's music for any length of time (i did), and if you watch some of his instructional videos (did that, too), you see that he is pedalling what is light jazz lounge music as an acceptable replacement for good music.

Believe i will go with Garlock.

BTW, it has been my experience as a musician; jazz, rock, and country (all former), classical, and sacred; that the ONLY people who will defend rock (and therefore, CCM) music to their dying breath for what it is not are "Christians". The world admits it for what it is.

Edited by Ben the Biblicist

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Any men outside of the Bible I will let God decides whether they've been very usable to God or not.

As for John Wesley I do not use any of his material nor would I recommend anyone attend the church he founded, but I would warn them against it & its false teaching if I was asked..

Jerry, I wouldn't recommend the Methodist Church for anything today either....but today's Methodists are a far cry from what John Wesley founded. However, there is no doubt that God used him. Souls were saved everywhere he preached. He trained up young men to preach, and they did. He was a very important influence on George Whitefield, who came to America, and subsequently brought revival to our Colonies, which in turn spurred on the American War for Independence.
As many people were converted under George Whitefield's preaching, they had nobody to indoctrinate them with Whitefield/Wesley's doctrine, so they just read their Bibles....and lo, and behold, many of them became Baptists. It was such a "problem" to Whitefield that he once lamented, "All my chickens have become ducks" - meaning that they rejected the Anglican infant baptism, and insisted upon Scriptural baptism by immersion after salvation......
So God DID use Wesley and Whitefield to at least get people saved, then reading their Bibles, and then cleaning up society. Wesley's influence was so strong in England that his Methodist movement literally saved England from disaster, while Whitefield's preaching lead to our INdependence.

God will use men outside of our line of doctrine from time to time. The Baptists at that point in history were so reviled and hated that they had no credibility with the general public.
Do I agree with ALL of Wesley's doctrine? No.
But his journal has some excellent material in it, and many of his sermons are "spot on."

To tie this in with the entire Thread, there is no doubt that Frank Garlock has been used to expose rock music for what it is, and also to produce some excellent music.

Jesus said it best: Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

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Jerry, I wouldn't recommend the Methodist Church for anything today either....but today's Methodists are a far cry from what John Wesley founded. However, there is no doubt that God used him. Souls were saved everywhere he preached. He trained up young men to preach, and they did. He was a very important influence on George Whitefield, who came to America, and subsequently brought revival to our Colonies, which in turn spurred on the American War for Independence.
As many people were converted under George Whitefield's preaching, they had nobody to indoctrinate them with Whitefield/Wesley's doctrine, so they just read their Bibles....and lo, and behold, many of them became Baptists. It was such a "problem" to Whitefield that he once lamented, "All my chickens have become ducks" - meaning that they rejected the Anglican infant baptism, and insisted upon Scriptural baptism by immersion after salvation......
So God DID use Wesley and Whitefield to at least get people saved, then reading their Bibles, and then cleaning up society. Wesley's influence was so strong in England that his Methodist movement literally saved England from disaster, while Whitefield's preaching lead to our INdependence.

God will use men outside of our line of doctrine from time to time. The Baptists at that point in history were so reviled and hated that they had no credibility with the general public.
Do I agree with ALL of Wesley's doctrine? No.
But his journal has some excellent material in it, and many of his sermons are "spot on."

To tie this in with the entire Thread, there is no doubt that Frank Garlock has been used to expose rock music for what it is, and also to produce some excellent music.

Jesus said it best: Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

There is so much wrong with this post one would have to write a booklet, or even a book, to correct it all.

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Jerry, I wouldn't recommend the Methodist Church for anything today either....but today's Methodists are a far cry from what John Wesley founded. However, there is no doubt that God used him. Souls were saved everywhere he preached. He trained up young men to preach, and they did. He was a very important influence on George Whitefield, who came to America, and subsequently brought revival to our Colonies, which in turn spurred on the American War for Independence.
As many people were converted under George Whitefield's preaching, they had nobody to indoctrinate them with Whitefield/Wesley's doctrine, so they just read their Bibles....and lo, and behold, many of them became Baptists. It was such a "problem" to Whitefield that he once lamented, "All my chickens have become ducks" - meaning that they rejected the Anglican infant baptism, and insisted upon Scriptural baptism by immersion after salvation......
So God DID use Wesley and Whitefield to at least get people saved, then reading their Bibles, and then cleaning up society. Wesley's influence was so strong in England that his Methodist movement literally saved England from disaster, while Whitefield's preaching lead to our INdependence.

God will use men outside of our line of doctrine from time to time. The Baptists at that point in history were so reviled and hated that they had no credibility with the general public.
Do I agree with ALL of Wesley's doctrine? No.
But his journal has some excellent material in it, and many of his sermons are "spot on."

To tie this in with the entire Thread, there is no doubt that Frank Garlock has been used to expose rock music for what it is, and also to produce some excellent music.

Jesus said it best: Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


I will let God decided this, not myself, for I cannot read the heart.

As for the Methodist, they have never been right, they were wrong in the beginning, & they're still wrong.

Now, I know a few men personally, that I would state, God seemed to use them, but the men I speak of I have been around personally, Mr Wesley, & Mr. Garlock, I never spent one single moment around them. so I don't know if God used them or not, & I surely will not proclaim they were used greatly by God, I will let God decide that.

Now, I will point you to some men that God has used, just go read Hebrews 11, & believe it, for its in the Bible.

As for Mr. Wesley, he founded a false church that abounded in false teachings, that taught commandments of men for commandments of God.


Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Believe the Bible, take what is written outside of it with a grain of salt, & do not procliam it to be truth, nor of God.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



Truth is of the most importance, we have it, within the pages of the Bible, follow that, not people such as Mr. Wesley or Garlock, and if you want to elevate anyone, why not elevate our Father, & His Son, give them all the glory, if you do, you can't go wrong with that, leaving the other in God's hands.

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There is so much wrong with this post one would have to write a booklet, or even a book, to correct it all.

John, everything I said here can be documented. Of course, this is a very brief summary of events, and the affects of Whitefield and Wesley were often felt indirectly. It doesn't change the facts.

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John, everything I said here can be documented. Of course, this is a very brief summary of events, and the affects of Whitefield and Wesley were often felt indirectly. It doesn't change the facts.

The facts are far different than what you have put forth.

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I will let God decided this, not myself, for I cannot read the heart.

As for the Methodist, they have never been right, they were wrong in the beginning, & they're still wrong.

Now, I know a few men personally, that I would state, God seemed to use them, but the men I speak of I have been around personally, Mr Wesley, & Mr. Garlock, I never spent one single moment around them. so I don't know if God used them or not, & I surely will not proclaim they were used greatly by God, I will let God decide that.

Now, I will point you to some men that God has used, just go read Hebrews 11, & believe it, for its in the Bible.

As for Mr. Wesley, he founded a false church that abounded in false teachings, that taught commandments of men for commandments of God.


Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Believe the Bible, take what is written outside of it with a grain of salt, & do not procliam it to be truth, nor of God.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



Truth is of the most importance, we have it, within the pages of the Bible, follow that, not people such as Mr. Wesley or Garlock, and if you want to elevate anyone, why not elevate our Father, & His Son, give them all the glory, if you do, you can't go wrong with that, leaving the other in God's hands.

Jerry, we should not determine whether or not God used somebody based solely on whether or not we have personally met them. Many of Wesley's sermons are in print, and can be read and reviewed by us today. We have the historical accounts of his ministry, by which we can judge the merits of his work.
Please do not misunderstand me. I fully acknowledge that he never left off infant baptism and the sacraments of the Anglican church. I am sure there are other points of doctrine upon which I would disagree with Wesley and Whitefield about. But it does not mean that God didn't use them. He most certainly did. Thousands of souls were saved under their preaching. Despite their tenacious hold upon Anglican doctrines, they both preached salvation by grace through faith, sincere repentance, and the need for holy living. I can go along with that, and I fail to see why anyone else would NOT agree with those points.
The thousands of souls saved, and the resultant changed lives are certainly testimony to the work God did for them.

One of the converts that came out of Whitefield's revival campaigns in New England was a man by the name of Shubal Stearns. Mr. Stearns became a baptist, moved to North Carolina, and is largely responsible for what is known today as the Bible Belt......all because an Anglican/Methodist came to the American colonies and preached salvation by grace through faith......

And OF COURSE I recognize that it is GOD doing the work through men.....God uses men to accomplish His will. We don't glorify men, we glorify God. But sometimes God uses men that WE don't approve of, and sometimes that offends our sensibilities. Instead of giving God the Glory for what God did through an "unapproved" man like Wesley, I find too many people refusing to acknowledge God's use of the "unapproved man" by saying we should not talk about men but God only......To me, that's a cop-out.

Three verses:
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
AH-HA!!! So we CAN know if God used somebody!!!

Lu 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Lu 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
OH, I see! This question is nothing new! The Disciples themselves fell into this trap of condemning someone that God was using!
Wesley may not have been "one of us" but he certainly was not AGAINST us. He had the same broad goals that we do - preaching salvation to the lost.

Luke 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
So when somebody opposes the work of God, then we should avoid them.

Again, I don't endorse EVERYTHING Wesley did and said. But it is quite obvious that God DID use him in a miraculous way, and particularly without our approval.....just like God used Hudson Taylor, D.L. Moody, and Billy Sunday without our approval....God still gets the Glory no matter how the work gets done.

The most important fruit that came out of Whitefield's revival campaigns was the growth of the Baptists. Whitefield's preaching produced so many converts in the dead Congregationalist churches that these converts split over Baptism, and started their own churches. It spread all throughout the colonies. The Baptist growth in Virginia led to the Virginia establishment of religious liberty, which in turn led to our First Amendment rights.....all because God sent a Methodist/Anglican preacher over to America to preach the gospel.

One final note: I hope you don't take this personally, because I generally agree with your posts! Edited by Steve Schwenke

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It was George Whitfield who introduced Wesley to open air preaching. They later fell out as Wesley was an arminian and Whitfield was a Calvinist. I believe that after many years they were reconciled to each other.

Neither was a Methodist as the Methodists separated from the CofE after Wesley's death. Wesley founded Methodist Clubs. Wesley believed in sinless perfection.

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Jerry, we should not determine whether or not God used somebody based solely on whether or not we have personally met them. Many of Wesley's sermons are in print, and can be read and reviewed by us today. We have the historical accounts of his ministry, by which we can judge the merits of his work.
Please do not misunderstand me. I fully acknowledge that he never left off infant baptism and the sacraments of the Anglican church. I am sure there are other points of doctrine upon which I would disagree with Wesley and Whitefield about. But it does not mean that God didn't use them. He most certainly did. Thousands of souls were saved under their preaching. Despite their tenacious hold upon Anglican doctrines, they both preached salvation by grace through faith, sincere repentance, and the need for holy living. I can go along with that, and I fail to see why anyone else would NOT agree with those points.
The thousands of souls saved, and the resultant changed lives are certainly testimony to the work God did for them.

One of the converts that came out of Whitefield's revival campaigns in New England was a man by the name of Shubal Stearns. Mr. Stearns became a baptist, moved to North Carolina, and is largely responsible for what is known today as the Bible Belt......all because an Anglican/Methodist came to the American colonies and preached salvation by grace through faith......

And OF COURSE I recognize that it is GOD doing the work through men.....God uses men to accomplish His will. We don't glorify men, we glorify God. But sometimes God uses men that WE don't approve of, and sometimes that offends our sensibilities. Instead of giving God the Glory for what God did through an "unapproved" man like Wesley, I find too many people refusing to acknowledge God's use of the "unapproved man" by saying we should not talk about men but God only......To me, that's a cop-out.

Three verses:
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
AH-HA!!! So we CAN know if God used somebody!!!

Lu 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Lu 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
OH, I see! This question is nothing new! The Disciples themselves fell into this trap of condemning someone that God was using!
Wesley may not have been "one of us" but he certainly was not AGAINST us. He had the same broad goals that we do - preaching salvation to the lost.

Luke 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
So when somebody opposes the work of God, then we should avoid them.

Again, I don't endorse EVERYTHING Wesley did and said. But it is quite obvious that God DID use him in a miraculous way, and particularly without our approval.....just like God used Hudson Taylor, D.L. Moody, and Billy Sunday without our approval....God still gets the Glory no matter how the work gets done.

The most important fruit that came out of Whitefield's revival campaigns was the growth of the Baptists. Whitefield's preaching produced so many converts in the dead Congregationalist churches that these converts split over Baptism, and started their own churches. It spread all throughout the colonies. The Baptist growth in Virginia led to the Virginia establishment of religious liberty, which in turn led to our First Amendment rights.....all because God sent a Methodist/Anglican preacher over to America to preach the gospel.

One final note: I hope you don't take this personally, because I generally agree with your posts!


The man your holding up started his own brand of a church, the one Jesus founded was not good enough for him, & he also filled it with false teachings. Its easy to know it was filled with false teachings, just check it against the teachings frond in the Bible.

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