Do you believe our government should be in that assassinating business?

[JerryNumbers]

Jas 4:1 ¶ From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?


The Bible is clear why war comes about, that is if we believe it.


Murder is murder, no matter who commits the act, whether its a person, more than one person, or a nation, that is, if you believe the Bible.


I can go along with war, if we are struck 1st. The dictator of Iraq did not strike us on 911, its already been proven he did not. Yet we took him out and it has cost many lives, many more than if we had left him alone. And yes, in part that is what has put us neck deep in debt. After 911 what everyone wanted was revenge, revenge against anyone. We was wrong in doing that, and I will admit at the time with what information I had, I thought it was right. But I see my wrong, I admit it.


God and His way ought to be 1st and foremost in our lives, and we cannot walk with Him if we are not trusting and obeying. If we try, we are only fooling ourselves, and many there be that do that.

By the way, what keeps the war in Iraq going, insurgents, and it seems to be what keeps things going in Pakistani and Afghanistan. Insurgents, and insurgents are the people that hate us. And one thing we should not do, is give them any more reasons to hate us. They are also scared of us, they fear we will do the same thing in other countries that we did in Iraq, and did in Iran back in the 50's.

Mt 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If we do as they, we are no better than them. And you never get no respect if you do as they do, besides God knows best. Murdering them while they are unarmed, is what they have done, and the only thing it will do is generate even more hate towards us.

[JerryNumbers]

You might want to recheck history. America didn't enter the war in Vietnam for the sake of liberty or because France was our ally.

Freedom in America today? Ironic when one considers that what Americans view as freedom today, the Founders would have viewed as living under tyranny.

War is war, whether lying politicians want to call it a "police action" or "conflict" in order to avoid having to obey the law.

Actually our leaders said, we will help you, stand behind you, we will help you get your freedom, yet we turned our back on them in the end, turned tail and run home, leaving those our leaders promised to help to be murdered by the hundreds of thousands.

[John81]

We should also not forget one of the lessons of Jonah. Why did Jonah not want to obey God? Because he was placing his idea of patriotism above God. The Ninhevites were enemies of Israel so Jonah wanted to see God destroy them. God had other plans. God wanted them to repent. Of course God finally convinced Jonah to do as he was told.

Even then, after delivering God's message to them, Jonah went and sat outside the city to watch as he wanted to see God destroy them. To Jonah's dismay the people repented, God accepted their repentance and didn't destroy them. Jonah, wanting to see those he saw as his nations enemies destroyed, became very upset, angry and sullen.

Patriotism outside the will of God is sin.

[irishman]

people who promote Allah over God make themselves His enemies; if they are enemies of God, as well as our enemies, they are bent on destroying freedom and true worship, and God will eventually allow their destruction. He does not put up with false gods for very long.

Jerry, I do not agree with murder, of course, but I do not consider the necessary elimination of national and universal threats to be murder, but necessary evils that protect others as well as our borders in the long run. Hussein, Ben Lada, etc. are all in the same boat whether they had anything to do with 911 or not. have you ever heard of aiding and abetting? Some of us need to get our heads out of the sand and face reality.


By the way John, if America did not enter Vietnam because of said reasons, why do you suppose they did? It matters whether you were a hippy protester or a patriot at the time, i suppose. The "war" became a political issue, but that may not have been the purpose at first. Who can say? History is biased anyway, it is unreliable at the least.

The Constitution was written for man, by man, and man is fickle. It has not been practiced word for word almost since its inception, but I didn't hear anyone griping when things were going well. I wish they would follow it too, but realistically, few will, although certain parts may be emphasized. does the Constitution promote capital punishment? i don't know, but I don't think so either. Illegal wars? According to the Bible, as individuals, we are to turn the other cheek, but we are speaking of a nation collectively, and not individuals, as those verses seem to promote. Praise be to God, and not Allah.

By the way, i believe Jonah's problem was a lack of compassion for the lost, not patriotism; but that is a matter of conjecture. It is well known that the Jews hated the Assyrians, and vise-versa, and God hated the heathen worship they practiced.

Edited May 7, 2011 by irishman

[Brother Rick]

Saddam regularly give $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers who attacked Israel.

Based on that alone I think we should have taken him out waaaaaaaaay before 9/11. Remember the whole "I will bless them that bless thee..." and "to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it NOT it is sin" thing?

[JerryNumbers]

Murder is murder, no matter who gets murdered or who does the murder.

Doing this is taking a big risk, doing this with Americans taking to the streets and celebrating the killing of men, and an unarmed woman, will it lead to our enemy doing that to any and all American prisoners they have and or capture in the future.

It would have been 100% different if they had been shooting at them.

And it would have been different if they captured them, them had a trail, if convicted, with capital punishment handed down

No, to many wants revenge. and through all the revenge in their eyes they cannot see wrong..

The America way has always been the accused gets a trial, no matter who they are and what crime they committed, yet that is not true no more, we threw the laws of this country out the door while walking stomping on God's Word.

[John81]

America is not a Chistian nation with it's leaders receiving direct insight from God. America is not akin to OT Israel. America is one of all the Gentile nations, one of wicked nations, one of the nations that will turn on Israel.

The American government is supposed to function and operate based upon the Constitution; not upon someones feelings, and certainly not in a manner of using illegal actions backed by lies.

The Founders of America specifically established America as a secular nation, based the Constitution and much of what they did off a mix of Enlightenment humanism and secularized biblical principles. It was determined the Central (Federal) government of America was to be very limited and was not to operate outside the confines of the limits set within the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

If anyone thinks or wants America to be a Christian nation, basing it's decisions on Scripture and the guidance of God, then they need to work to change the entire governmental structure of the country.

The Founders, and several following generations, made it clear the policy of America was to be one of neutrality. Not taking sides in wars and disagreements between other nations. Not getting involved in foreign wars. Being willing to grant moral and spiritual support for those we held agreement with, but not taking sides in any physical manner. Trading with all conflicting parties, if at all possible, while showing no favoritism or hostility to any. Those are the foundational principles set forth by the Founders.

America is not the "right arm of God" serving Gods justice in the world. If and when God uses America to fulfill a purpose with regards to another nation, it's akin to how God used the various heathen nations for His purposes in the OT. It's not something we will always recognize and it's not something that occurs because America is special, it's a matter of God's providence.

As Christians we should expect and desire that the government we live under conduct itself according to the law of the land; the Constitution, and that leaders abide by their oath of office. Christians should not support that which is a violation of the law of the land; the Constitution. If Christians want things done differently, things that currently violate the Constitution, then they should petition God for such a new government and support with their votes and such those willing to work for such a radical political change.

[irishman]

the Constitution does not address "murder" at all , neither is it defined in any way. It does, however address war, as was already mentioned and an act of congress must declare a war, but murder is an entirely different subject. Many of the proponents of the Constitution were in, or in support of, the Continental Army, and war was no doubt understood according to the military aspect.

[HappyChristian]

Yes, let's look at history...specifically the Tripolaitan War under Jefferson. Interesting to note that America never declared "war." Rather, the term used was "hostilities." Hmmmm...So, I guess they were wrong, according to armchair generals. No, actually they weren't. The constitution cedes to Congress the necessity for deciding whether we go into armed conflict or not. They authorized Dubya to do so...whether they used the term "declaration of war" or not. Consider it a blank check if you wish - it was no such thing. It was a specific authorization to pursue terrorists who are a threat to the US. That would include ObL, since he was the mastermind behind 9-11. Give him a trial? Well, let's just hang all of those soldiers who've shot the enemy, 'cause they didn't get a trial either.

I cannot believe how ludicrous some postings are!!

God ordained government (not the specific form, but the fact that there needs to be one) as a power of terror to evil-doers. The War in Tripoli came about in large part because, even before America was a nation, governments were not a terror to the pirates of the Tripoli. They used "diplomatic" methods of paying tribute. And so, when America became free (and set up a new style of government...all in accordance with scripture), things changed, right? No. I deeply admire George Washington, but disagree with his handling of the Tripoli situation...he continued the tribute (could be because we just finished a war and he didn't want to put the country through another one, but who knows). John Adams did likewise. Thomas Jefferson had said, since Geo's presidency, that wasn't the way to go about it.

When TJ became POTUS, he refused to pay tribute anymore (you know, tribute then was, to me, much the same as "foreign aid" today: doing us absolutely no good!), and did not pay the "death tribute" that was demanded when Geo. Wn. died. That made the poobah mad. And so Americans were targeted. Congress did not declare war: but Jefferson sent ships to blockade the ports...and did it legally.

Finally, after loss of life, Congress declared "hostilities." Not war. Just as Congress AUTHORIZED the War on Terror. The War in Tripoli was successful - the pirates defeated and the world no longer saw America as weak. The removal of ObL has had the same effect. Yes, al Qaeda is angry, but they were beforehand and would be even if we surrendered. They want our complete subjugation.

The American government had a duty to show the world that government is to be a terror to evil. And they did.

[John81]

Amazing how that has nothing to do with the violation of international law and violating the sovereign borders of an ally nation.

Legal means could have been used. If the American government wants to use illegal means to achieve certain ends then they should be bold and honest enough to declare so.

[HappyChristian]

International Law? That's global think, John...and it's unscriptural. God set up governments in nations, not international.

And they aren't truly allies.

[John81]

International Law? That's global think, John...and it's unscriptural. God set up governments in nations, not international.

And they aren't truly allies.

America signed the international laws which makes them binding, just as binding as was Israels agreement with tribe that tricked them into a treaty.

Pakistan is called by the American government an ally. No doubt the truth of the matter is they are bought off as an "ally", but to them and to the world, they are an ally of America and Ameria is viewed as having violated them.

If we want to equate more Scripture we can refer back to the so-called golden rule. Does the American government, which expects others to keep international law and to respect American borders (unless it's illegal aliens) want other countries dealing with them as they deal with others?

Had the American government declared openly, honestly and boldly that they considered Osama such a high value target they believed it was necessary to violate certain laws and rules, even handing Pakistan an open apology that such was necessary upon their soil, (or something to the effect of all this), then I could have had respect for how it was played out. However, with all the lying, denying, and mind-games being played, how can anyone respect that?

[HappyChristian]

:casse-mur-briques:

[irishman]

Who violated Pakistan as a nation? We went after one terrorist...

Good posts Happy Christian.

[JerryNumbers]

I've always thought it was illegal to cross the border of a country that your not a citizen of, unless you 1st get permission.

America gets quite hostile if another country's aircraft invades our air apace without permission and quickly sends fighters, and if they don't identify their self quickly, make known their intentions, they may get shot down, legally. And Pakistani would have had the same right. And from what they have said, next time they will. Who can blame them?

Of course bullies don't ask for permission, they do as they please, and if you resist, your in grave danger of physical harm. I remember seeing several of them in my school days, and they always bullied those that were smaller than they while knowing they could not defend their self.

And to think, America is the super power, and she seems to go about doing as she pleases, with no concern for the smaller country's laws.

Do you really believe all is fair in love and war? All is fair in love and war is not a Bible truth, its a saying made famous by fallen, sinful, men.


I'm for doing all things the right way, its always wrong to do wrong to try and make good come of it. And in this situation there was wrongs done.