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Is that mocking me, a put down, compliment, or what?


A play on the words you chose but, indeed something to think about. The devil has more avenues of approach and entry than we could ever imagine.
Gal. 5:26 "Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."

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What beats are there that are not of the world as worldy music of a wide variety has existed even long before Christianity?

I know of some who won't listen to orchestras because of their connection with the world. Some won't listen to classical because it's worldly. On and on with various music styles.

I've also spoken with missionaries who speak of certain types of music being considered worldy or even evil in some areas of the world while in other areas that same type of music is viewed as holy.

From what I've read, the 2/4 beat wasn't an invention of 1950s rock muscians but had been around and used by various cultures for various means, both holy and profane, long before there ever was a "rock" music.

Good music has a 1/3 beat.

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Good music has a 1/3 beat.

Is that found in Scripture?

Again, we come to the question of what is "good music".

For instance, I can walk into a black Baptist church where they are singing hymns I know and love but the way they play their music and the way they sing, I can't stand it and I can't praise or worship God with it; yet somehow they do. I've heard some black Baptists say something similar with regards to how they view the music in white Baptist churches.

Again, an American black missionary was shocked that the kind of music he found acceptable was viewed horribly by black Africans in Africa while the music they found to be best for church was abhorant to him.

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What beats are there that are not of the world as worldy music of a wide variety has existed even long before Christianity?

I know of some who won't listen to orchestras because of their connection with the world. Some won't listen to classical because it's worldly. On and on with various music styles.

I've also spoken with missionaries who speak of certain types of music being considered worldy or even evil in some areas of the world while in other areas that same type of music is viewed as holy.

From what I've read, the 2/4 beat wasn't an invention of 1950s rock muscians but had been around and used by various cultures for various means, both holy and profane, long before there ever was a "rock" music.


I support these comments. But, I prefer NONE 2/4 beat. I prefer traditional Baptist hymnal music however, some new folks have put together music which is God honoring.
The second song in the OP does nothing to violate the principles of scripture noted by Happy. The majority of the song uses scripture for the lyrics. I don't know the
Maranatha Singers testimony but, I do like their song "As The Deer."

Phil.4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

"...if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

I suggest you go back and listen closely to the entire song. Edited by 1Tim115

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It's actually a 4/4 beat with an emphasis on 2 and 4 (back beat). That is the biggest characteristic of Rock music, but rock music can have many different time signatures, like a 3/4 beat with an emphasis on the first beat in every other measure. A 4/4 time signature is the most common in all music, rock or not, and the simplest to play. All starting musicians are taught to play a 4/4 beat when they pick up an instrument, whether or not they are emphasizing the back beat. Where does the Bible say not to use a 4/4 beat? Why isn't orchestral music considered worldly if it originated in the world too? I've never heard of anyone playing a 1/3 beat. I've played 4/4, 3/4, 2/4, 4/8, 6/8, and even 5/4 in my band, but never a 1/3. I guess I've never, ever played any Christian music then. I am a bit suspicious though, because I did not find a command to use a 1/3 beat in the KJB.

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My point in posting the verse I did was that I won't play music to people who are offended by it, but I just cannot find any way to call it unclean. Yes, there is some that goes overboard, but it does not necessarily have to have a certain time signature to do that. You have to listen to the song in question in its entirety to discern. The songs posted by the OP are not all that abominable, IMHO.

Edited by anime4christ

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"The 2/4 beat that is employed in so much of what is called CCM (and it is a specific genre, not just songs that are written nowadays...those who sing and follow CCM know exactly what the term means) is a rock beat, whether the music is soft or not. And it is of the world. Ergo, according to the above verses, not something a Christian should be involved in." -- HAPPY CHRISTIAN


Please provide specific examples of what you are referencing with the 2/4 beat. Thanks for the follow-up.

Edited by nathanp

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"The 2/4 beat that is employed in so much of what is called CCM (and it is a specific genre, not just songs that are written nowadays...those who sing and follow CCM know exactly what the term means) is a rock beat, whether the music is soft or not. And it is of the world. Ergo, according to the above verses, not something a Christian should be involved in." -- HAPPY CHRISTIAN


Please provide specific examples of what you are referencing with the 2/4 beat. Thanks for the follow-up.

I'm talking about music with a back beat. Not actually a 2/4 beat, which is probably being confused with a 2/4 count.

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In that case, your claim would still exclude any 4/4 song as good music when it is the most common around, rock or not. To emphasize the third beat of every measure, you have to have at least a 3/4 time signature which is a bit more difficult for starting musicians than a 4/4. And where does the Bible dictate time signatures?

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In that case, your claim would still exclude any 4/4 song as good music when it is the most common around, rock or not. To emphasize the third beat of every measure, you have to have at least a 3/4 time signature which is a bit more difficult for starting musicians than a 4/4. And where does the Bible dictate time signatures?


There's a lot the Bible doesn't "dictate," anime. There are principles to follow, and rock music - whether soft and proclaimed gospel or not - does not follow the principles AND commands to be separate from the world and it's philosophies. Good music doesn't have a back beat.

Back beats cause the body to respond in a sensual way. That isn't glorifying to God. It does, however, cause people who listen to it and/or perform it to defend it vociferously.

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I hear the claim that certain music is "sensual" but what does that really mean? Is the music "sensual" because one taps their toes, claps or moves in some way to the music? Scripture even says it's good to dance but that requires the body to move while the music is playing.

I've heard a lot of different music over the years and it would be a very, very tiny percentage I could say might have seemed "sensual" in any way.

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Fascinating discussion, the main argument seems to be that we should avoid pervasive worldly music styles, particularly rock. I agree.

I posted this on another thread, but there were no comments. Allegri - Psalm 51 (Miserere.) What do you think of chants? It is highly unlikely that the precise metre tunes we like for hymns were used by the early church. Some form of chant would have been necessary to sing the Psalms. My childhood memories in the Anglican church were of getting lost in the Psalms as they were chanted. Like the Psalm 51 they may be beautiful to listen to, but singing them is beyond a challenge. I believe Martin Luther wrote hymns to be sung to folk tunes to enable congregational singing.

Many of the popular tunes used for hymns are very old - including using & reclaiming "folk" music. I've heard "Amazing Grace" played in unacceptable CCM rock style. It's 3/4 & dates from around 1831.

The technical discussion on metres is not Biblical though the arguments may be - the Psalms are not given us in metre. I have the Scottish Psalter (widely used by non-conformists for hundreds of years) & that attempt to force the Psalms into metre does not lend itself to singing with understanding. We have, all the time, to shuffle the words back into the proper order to get the meaning.

Psalm 51
1 After thy loving-kindness, Lord,
have mercy upon me:
For thy compassions great, blot out
all mine iniquity.
.....
19 Then righteous off 'rings shall thee please,
and off 'rings burnt, which they
With whole burnt-off 'rings, and with calves,
shall on thine altar lay.

That is set to "St. Mary" with a 4/2 meter.

I think the reference to 1/3 is intended to be 3/4 - 3 crotchets in a bar or 3/2 (3 minims.) One beat in a bar is unknown. (OK give a link IYKBTM.)

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Lots of music feeds the flesh, a little bit of it seeds the spirit. There is lots of worldly music, and there is a little bit of godly music.

Ro 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

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There is a difference between moving the body in a sexual manner to a song and otherwise moving ones body to music. Scripture tells us in several places to dance, Psalms 149 and 150, for example, though there are others as well. Just because one moves their body when music is played doesn't mean the music is wrong or evil.

When was the last time any of us "danced before the Lord" or praised the Lord in singing and dance as we assembled together? Likely as not, most of us would be shocked and appalled if someone were to do so even if their actions were pleasing to the Lord.

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There is a difference between moving the body in a sexual manner to a song and otherwise moving ones body to music. Scripture tells us in several places to dance, Psalms 149 and 150, for example, though there are others as well. Just because one moves their body when music is played doesn't mean the music is wrong or evil.

When was the last time any of us "danced before the Lord" or praised the Lord in singing and dance as we assembled together? Likely as not, most of us would be shocked and appalled if someone were to do so even if their actions were pleasing to the Lord.


Right!

Psalm 150:4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Notice that it doesn't say to dance........It says to praise him...with the dance
For instance: a woman(or man) moving her hips in a sexual, provocative manner, wouldn't be praising God with that particular dance.
The man in Acts 3:8 would probably come closer to what was meant in Psalm 150:4 Edited by heartstrings

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Right!

Psalm 150:4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Notice that it doesn't say to dance........It says to praise him...with the dance
For instance: a woman(or man) moving her hips in a sexual, provocative manner, wouldn't be praising God with that particular dance.
The man in Acts 3:8 would probably come closer to what was meant in Psalm 150:4

I totally agree that sexual girations labeled as "dance" isn't what would be pleasing before the Lord.

Yes, the example from Acts is one form of dancing that was common among Jews. I've read of various other forms of dance which comes from the Jews that are said to probably be of the sort done in worship. None of these dances involve male/female couples. All of the dances are of the sort that the men do and of the sort that women do, which are done separately, not in any together or bonding fashion.

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Is the way people to "dance" to contemporary worship music sexual? What I see most often is people closing their eyes, lifting their hands, and sometimes swaying a bit, but I haven't seen any sexually suggestive dancing among people worshiping to modern worship music. I have seen sexually suggestive dancing in a lot of secular dance and hip-hop music, and there is a difference. Or am I missing something?

I see and do this a lot (regardless of musical genre and beat or lack thereof) but it doesn't make me feel anything sexual at all. I usually have my eyes closed as well, so even if someone around me was dancing in a sexual way (and I've never had that happen), I wouldn't see it.
imgWorship.jpg

I'd be willing to change my opinion if someone could clearly show me that what I posted is wrong. I'm just being honest about how I see it and so far nobody has been able to show me biblically where I'm wrong. I don't want to just do something because someone said so (unless it was Jesus who said it). Most of what I've heard against any genre of music or form of worship was not based in a Bible text, but in a discussion of cultural, which constantly changes. I'm not defending modern worship music either. Those who qualify only the music they like as worship music and put down traditional music would get similar comments from me. A lot of the arguments for modern worship music are not biblical either. I'm more interested in people wanting to worship God than push something for the sake of tradition, relevance, or tastes.

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