Jacob's trouble

[Invicta]

There are two distinct phases to the Second Coming of Christ: The Rapture (pre-tribulational coming) and the Second Advent (post-tribulational coming). Dispensational teaching does not teach 3 comings of Christ.

The Rapture is imminent…it can happen at any time. There is nothing that needs to be fulfilled before He comes for His Church. The Rapture of the Church will be “in the air” and Christ will be seen only by the Church. It will happen suddenly (in the twinkling of an eye) and the Christ rejecting world will not even realize what is happening. The Rapture is Christ’s pre-tribulational coming “in the air” FOR His saints. He does not come TO the earth at this time. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:52).

The Second Advent of Christ will be visible….every eye will see Him (Matthew 24:24-27; Revelation 1:7) and He will come back WITH His saints (Matthew 24:29-30; Revelation 19:11-16). His Second Advent will be TO the earth (Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:11).

There is no scripture to say Chriast is coming "to the air" that is an in terpretation and a false interpretation at that. We will meet him in the air, something completely different.

[LindaR]

I didn't say Christ would be coming "to the air". The Rapture (catching away) is the first phase of the Second Advent of Christ FOR His saints. He will DESCEND FROM HEAVEN and meet His saints "IN the air":

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The term "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is also translated "pluck" (John 10:28), "pulling [out of the fire]" (Jude 1:23), and "take by force" (Acts 23:10). It refers to a forceful seizing and a snatching away.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
726. harpazo
harpazo har-pad'-zo
from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

Edited January 19, 2012 by LindaR

[JerryNumbers]

I didn't say Christ would be coming "to the air". The Rapture (catching away) is the first phase of the Second Advent of Christ FOR His saints. He will DESCEND FROM HEAVEN and meet His saints "IN the air":

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The term "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is also translated "pluck" (John 10:28), "pulling [out of the fire]" (Jude 1:23), and "take by force" (Acts 23:10). It refers to a forceful seizing and a snatching away.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
726. harpazo
harpazo har-pad'-zo
from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

True, yet it seems few there be that accept that truth.

[Eric Stahl]

Keep It Simple, Scriptural:

Jesus describes 2 resurrections in John 5. The first is conversion, when the dead sinner believes, & begins eternal life. The second is the general resurrection at the last day.

24

Verily, verily, I say u

nt

o you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that se

nt

me, hath everlasting life, and shall n

ot

come i

nt

o condemnation; but is passed from death u

nt

o life.

25

Verily, verily, I say u

nt

o you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27

And hath given him authority to execute judgme

nt

also, because he is the Son of man.

28

Marvel n

ot

at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29

And shall come forth; they that have done good, u

nt

o the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, u

nt

o the resurrection of damnation.

In Rev. 20, we see the souls of bodily dead believers who, having served & suffered during the present millennium lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The first, spiritual resurrection, secures all believers from the second death.

Your imposed disp system complicates & confuses the plain truth of Scripture.

There are 5 times that Saints are redeemed from the earth bodily as explained in my post" The five Phases of the first Resurrection"
but there is only one resurrection of the church age believers Which occurs prior to the tribulation. 2Thrssalonians 3-12

[Invicta]

There are 5 times that Saints are redeemed from the earth bodily as explained in my post" The five Phases of the first Resurrection"
but there is only one resurrection of the church age believers Which occurs prior to the tribulation. 2Thrssalonians 3-12

I don't see that 2Thessalonians 3:12 has any connection.

[Invicta]

True, yet it seems few there be that accept that truth.

Oh yes, we do accept that scipture truth, how dare you suggest we dont. We just do not accept your interpretation of it

[Steve Schwenke]

Oh yes, we do accept that scipture truth, how dare you suggest we dont. We just do not accept your interpretation of it

Let's keep it real, brother.
Here is what you said earlier to Rick:

If you are refering to your question about an earlier second coming in the clouds. I do't know the answer. But if the scriptrure sayd=s so, then I belkieve it, rather than you, who when you cannot see an answer you invent one. That is false teaching.

Has DARE you say that what we believe is false teaching!!!

It seems like you have a double standard here. Don't go around bullying us with your "false teaching" accusations, but then get upset at us when we say the same thing to you.

[Invicta]

I have been accused of being a false teacher on here a number of times, including once when all I did was post scripture without any comment. I have also been called a heretic. It doesn't bother me as Rome considers me a heretic as well.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Invicta

[Invicta]

There are two distinct phases to the Second Coming of Christ: Prove it from scripture. The Rapture (pre-tribulational coming) and the Second Advent (post-tribulational coming). Dispensational teaching does not teach 3 comings of Christ. Sir Richard Anderson did in The Coming Prince

[LindaR]

Prove it from scripture.
Sir Richard Anderson did in The Coming Prince

TWO DISTINCT PHASES OF THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

A Comparison Between the Rapture (Pre-tribulational Coming) and the Second Advent (Post-tribulational Coming)

1. TIME

1. RAPTURE--before the tribulation (Revelation 3:10). The church will be kept out of that hour or time of testing which will come upon the whole world.
2. SECOND ADVENT--after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30; Revelation 19:11-16).
   

2. QUICKNESS

1. RAPTURE--in a "moment" (Greek-"atom," a split-second, literally "uncut, indivisible," we divide and cut time into years and months and days and hours and minutes and seconds, but the smallest measure of time is an "atom" of time which we might call a split-second), in the blinking on an eye (1 Cor. 15:52). It is very sudden. It will happen before people will realize it is happening (even as it was with Enoch, see Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5). An example of a man being raptured away suddenly so as to be seen no more is found in Acts 8:39 (where the Greek word for rapture, harpazo, is used).
2. SECOND ADVENT--slow enough for people to realize and see what is happening (Matthew 24:27; Rev. 1:7; Psalm 2:2; Rev. 19:19). The second coming of Christ to the earth will be visible and obvious to all. No one will miss it.
   

3. DATE (THE DAY ON WHICH IT WILL TAKE PLACE)

1. RAPTURE--UNKNOWN DAY. The Lord Jesus will surely come for His Church (John 14:3) but we do not know when (compare 1 John 2:28 and 3:2 where the subjunctive mood is used indicating that while the fact of His coming is sure, the time of His coming is unsure). The rapture is imminent which means that He may come at any time. See Allen Beechick's discussion of the UNKNOWN DAY in the book The Pretribulation Rapture).
2. SECOND ADVENT--KNOWN DAY. The date of the second coming can be calculated to the very day. It will occur 2520 days (7 years, or 84 months, each month made up of 30 days) from the time that Antichrist makes a treaty with Israel (Daniel 9:27) and it will occur 1260 days (3½ years) from the time of the abomination of desolation (Matt. 24:15). See Revelation 11:2,3; 12:6,14; 13:5; 2 Thess. 2:8 (Antichrist destroyed at 2nd coming). Of course, this "known day" cannot be known or calculated by anyone until the treaty is signed (Dan. 9:27).
   

4. PRECEDING SIGNS

1. RAPTURE--NONE (Tit. 2:13; Rev. 22:20; etc.). He may come for His Church at any time and nothing needs to be fulfilled before He comes. The only thing we are waiting for is the completion of the church (Matt. 16:18; Rom. 11:25), and only God knows when this will be.
2. SECOND ADVENT--MANY (Matthew 24:3-28). There is much that must be fulfilled before Christ returns to the earth (such as all the events in Revelation 6-18).
   

5. VISIBILITY

1. RAPTURE--Christ seen only by the church (1 Thess. 4:17; 1 John 3:2).
2. SECOND ADVENT--Christ seen by every eye (Rev. 1:7; Matthew 24:24-27).
   

6. LOCATION

1. RAPTURE--in the air (1 Thess. 4:17).
2. SECOND ADVENT--on the earth (Zech. 14:4; Acts 1:11).
   

7. ASSOCIATED JUDGEMENT

1. RAPTURE--the judgment seat of Christ (2 Tim. 4:1,8; 1 Pet. 1:7).
2. SECOND ADVENT--destruction of the wicked armies (Rev. 19:17-19) and the judgment of living nations (Matthew 25:31-46).
   

8. IDENTITY OF THOSE REMOVED FROM THE EARTH AND THOSE REMAINING ON THE EARTH

1. RAPTURE--Believers are removed; unbelievers remain (1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-53; John 14:3).
2. SECOND ADVENT--Unbelievers are removed; believers remain (Matthew 24:37-41 and Luke 17:34-37). See Matthew 24:38 where the unbelieving world in Noah's day was taken away in judgment.
   

9. PURPOSE OF CHRIST'S COMING

1. RAPTURE--to receive His bride (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17).
2. SECOND ADVENT--to receive His kingdom (Luke 19:22; Rev. chapters 19-20)
   

10. THE BODIES OF LIVING BELIEVERS

1. RAPTURE--church age believers are raised (those who have died) and are translated and "changed" (those who are living) with the result that they have immortal, resurrection bodies (1 Cor. 15:52-53; 1 Thess. 4:17).
2. SECOND ADVENT--believers who survive the tribulation enter the kingdom in natural bodies (Matthew 25:23), and these believers will eventually bear children and re-populate the earth.
   

http://http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/rapt2com.htm

I don't know who Sir Richard Anderson is, but if he taught that there would be 3 comings of Christ, he was incorrect. Dispensational teaching is biblical and it teaches only 2 comings of Christ and that there would be two distinct phases of Christ's Second Advent (His coming FOR His saints - the Rapture, and His return TO this earth (Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:11) WITH His saints (1 Thess. 3:13; Jude 1:14; Revelation 19:11-14).

[Eric Stahl]

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
—Daniel 12:4–11 KJV

I believe the abomination happens 30 days before the devil is cast to the earth and begins to persecute the woman (Israel) at the middle of the tribulation. Revelation 12:7-14