Jump to content
Online Baptist Community
  • Newest Sermon Entry

    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Are Pastoral Disqualifications Permanent?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

In dealing with the fall of a fellow pastor (see Prayer Requests for details), the idea was brought up that some sins permanently disqualify a man from the pastorate while others don't. I think most of us agree that divorce permanently disqualifies a man from the pastorate, but what about theft? If the pastor repays the money he claims to have borrowed (without telling anyone about it), can he remain in the pastorate?

What sins disqualify a pastor permanently, and what sins disqualify a pastor temporarily, allowing him to return to the pulpit eventually?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


In dealing with the fall of a fellow pastor (see Prayer Requests for details), the idea was brought up that some sins permanently disqualify a man from the pastorate while others don't. I think most of us agree that divorce permanently disqualifies a man from the pastorate, but what about theft? If the pastor repays the money he claims to have borrowed (without telling anyone about it), can he remain in the pastorate?

What sins disqualify a pastor permanently, and what sins disqualify a pastor temporarily, allowing him to return to the pulpit eventually?


I've read and reread 1 Timothy and Titus; I'm not so sure divorce permanently disqualifies a man from the pastorate.

If a wife suddenly left of her own free will never to return, i.e. remarried other men several times and it was discovered she committed adultery before she left; then the man divorced her, would this bar the man from the pastorate? Edited by 1Tim115
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil..

Tit 1:6 ¶ If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

My personal opinion is that there be many, that have no back bone at all, that will not take a stand against the man that claims to have been called by God to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ that meets not ALL qualifications nor the man that brings shame to that position. Those that do this will ordain men to be pastors that are a complete embarrassment to the Churches of Jesus Christ and brings much shame on His Churches. Theses such people put a stumbling block in front of many, those that allow this are 100 % responsible for the shame that man brings on Jesus and His Churches.

No longer my personal opinion!

The man who is a thief should never be pastor of a church, and if he is found to be a thief he should be stripped of that position. A thief is not blameless.

In fact we all know that the Bible gives the qualifications for that position, at any time they fail to meet those qualifications, before ordination, or after ordination, they should cease to pastor one of Jesus' Churches. And members of one of Jesus' Churches should not put up with the man that does not meet all qualification God gives for that position.

We that are saved thanks to Jesus have no right, power, authority, to change any of the qualification given, we do have the right, power, authority to uphold them.

Sad to say, many pastors that get in trouble will move to a different location and will stay in the ministry, and many churches that have had such a pastor will not speak out against him. Doing that they fail to stand up for God's truths and aid men that should not be in that position stay in that position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


1Ti 3:1 ¶ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil..

Tit 1:6 ¶ If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

My personal opinion is that there be many, that have no back bone at all, that will not take a stand against the man that claims to have been called by God to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ that meets not ALL qualifications nor the man that brings shame to that position. Those that do this will ordain men to be pastors that are a complete embarrassment to the Churches of Jesus Christ and brings much shame on His Churches. Theses such people put a stumbling block in front of many, those that allow this are 100 % responsible for the shame that man brings on Jesus and His Churches.

No longer my personal opinion!

The man who is a thief should never be pastor of a church, and if he is found to be a thief he should be stripped of that position. A thief is not blameless.

In fact we all know that the Bible gives the qualifications for that position, at any time they fail to meet those qualifications, before ordination, or after ordination, they should cease to pastor one of Jesus' Churches. And members of one of Jesus' Churches should not put up with the man that does not meet all qualification God gives for that position.

We that are saved thanks to Jesus have no right, power, authority, to change any of the qualification given, we do have the right, power, authority to uphold them.

Sad to say, many pastors that get in trouble will move to a different location and will stay in the ministry, and many churches that have had such a pastor will not speak out against him. Doing that they fail to stand up for God's truths and aid men that should not be in that position stay in that position.

Are you saying this man...
If a wife suddenly left of her own free will never to return, i.e. remarried other men several times and it was discovered she committed adultery before she left; then the man divorced her, would this bar the man from the pastorate?

...would not be held blameless?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I've heard of wife's leaving on their own, yet it was the husbands fault.

And being as the husband is the head of the family, its left in his lap. When your the head you have to accept the responsibility many times when the fault is not directly yours.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

When the husband is divorced he is no longer blameless and no longer meets the qualification given in the above verse. And yes, I know the trend of everyone blaming everyone else for their ever little problem. But we are not speaking about the blame game. We have to use the Bible in order to know what is right or wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Jerry,

Have you ever taken something that wasn't your's? If you have, your a thief and disqualified. Again, Pastoral qualifications are very clear in 1 Tim. 3. and there is no mention of theft.


Chevy,
The issue is not that he stole because that is not mentioned in the qualifications. The issue is, "Is he blameless". The idea of being blameless is that nothing can be pinned to you or held against you. At the point of the theft, he is no longer blameless and must step down. That doesn't mean he could not pastor again. It takes time to overcome sin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Pastorj, I just love how people argue against the Bible using human reasoning. Why not take the Bible as it is? I suppose that is a $64,000 Dollar Question.

I'll answer that $64,000 dollar question. For you young ones there use to be a show called the $64,000 Question back in 1955-58, with today's inflation those numbers would be much higher today.

Few there be that will accept the Bible as it is.

The man that married the divorced woman has shown that he is not blameless, therefore he is not qualified to be a pastor. He has freely of his own free will caused to commit adultery.

Mt 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Of course in today's world adultery is so tolerated that most people, including Christians, Christian teachers, and even pastors pays it no mind and does not think of it being of enough importance to pay any mind.

A pastor that has done this has shown that he thinks he knows better than God and cannot be an example to his flock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I've heard of wife's leaving on their own, yet it was the husbands fault.

And being as the husband is the head of the family, its left in his lap. When your the head you have to accept the responsibility many times when the fault is not directly yours.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

When the husband is divorced he is no longer blameless and no longer meets the qualification given in the above verse. And yes, I know the trend of everyone blaming everyone else for their ever little problem. But we are not speaking about the blame game. We have to use the Bible in order to know what is right or wrong.


So if this were the case...

If a wife suddenly left of her own free will never to return, i.e. remarried other men several times and it was discovered she committed adultery before she left; then the man divorced her, would this bar the man from the pastorate?


...what part do the following scriptures play, if any?

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Do the above two scriptures say this brother would be held blameless?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Jerry,

You still refuse to answer the question. Have you ever taken something. If you have, you are a thief. and therefore in your estimation disqualified from the ministry. I am thankful for a God who forgives me and washes the sin away and casts it as far as the east is from the west. A God who remembers my sin no more.

I stole a candy bar and a hot wheels car when I was 10 years old. No one I know considers me to be a thief anymore. I consider myself to be blameless in this area. When I was 10, that wasn't true. I listed to heavy metal music when I was 16, but that is not the case now.

My point is that when I was 16, I wasn't qualified to pastor, but at 42 no one holds those things against me.

The same is true for many sins that people commit that do not directly disqualify someone from the ministry. If the man was divorced, he is disqualified. Time will tell whether someone is qualified as they will prove they are blameless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist



So if this were the case...



...what part do the following scriptures play, if any?

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Do the above two scriptures say this brother would be held blameless?



The qualifications for a pastor are not qualifications to be saved. The brother there is not a pastor, and we are speaking about the office of pastor. The most important position in a New Testament Church. And God has given the qualification for that position. But many churches will not hold to them, and or add to them.

And yes, the pastor is held to a higher standard which is very clear for anyone taking heed to the qualification for that position, although there be few pastors that will accept that fact.

I did not say, neither does the Bible say, the pastor had to be perfect, if that was the case no human could hold the position.
Link to comment
Share on other sites





The qualifications for a pastor are not qualifications to be saved. The brother there is not a pastor, and we are speaking about the office of pastor. The most important position in a New Testament Church. And God has given the qualification for that position. But many churches will not hold to them, and or add to them.

And yes, the pastor is held to a higher standard which is very clear for anyone taking heed to the qualification for that position, although there be few pastors that will accept that fact.

I did not say, neither does the Bible say, the pastor had to be perfect, if that was the case no human could hold the position.


If Christ and Paul would not hold the man I described accountable then neither would I. The man is free to pursue what ever God may call him to do; be it pastor, evangelist, missionary, or whatever full time ministry position. I suppose I'm just another apostate for taking that position.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Its not about you nor I holding him accountable, its about sticking to God's Word.


He is only free to if he meets the qualification that God has given, if he does not meet them God is not calling him to be a pastor.

Like one fellow I know of, he moved to two different churches in his home stated, wanting to be a pastor, they would not accept him to be a pastor. Finally he moved to a Baptist Church in Louisiana, attended a school they had. Later going forth to surrender to preach. They would not accept him, for he had been married 2 times and divorced 2 times.

I know this is not exactly the issue we spoke of, the issue previously mentioned was a man marrying a divorced woman. Yet marrying a divorced woman keep a man from being blameless.

Because many churches will not hold to what the Bible says about the qualifications for a pastor many men are behind the pulpits that should not be there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It always amazes me how the brethren automatically cast blame on a divorced man and disqualify him from being a pastor or a deacon. Divorce isn't always a sin, only when it's done unscripturally. To be honest, if it's not a sin, then that means God doesn't see anything wrong with it - only the brethren do. And if God doesn't see anything wrong with it, then for a man to say a person is disqualified would seem, well, pharisaical.

So now not only are we unscripturally broad-brushing and being pharisaical by saying a man is disqualified from being a pastor or a deacon for being divorced, we're going a step further and saying that he's permanently disqualified - not because God thinks he's to blame, or because the Scriptures blame him, but because we blame him.

It's not a "wait until you get your life back together and see how the Lord leads..." it's "No, not now and not ever. Not ten, twenty, or thirty years from now - you'll never be good enough to be a deacon, let alone a pastor."

I don't see that anywhere in the Bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Jesus declared that God hates divorce. That's a very strong statement and clearly indicates God does indeed see something wrong with divorce.

Even when commenting upon divorce which was allowed by Moses, Jesus made it clear that such was only allowed because of the hardness of the peoples hearts (not a good thing) and that such was not from the beginning.

Again, Jesus said God hates divorce, and there is no indication that hatred of divorce does not apply to certain divorces.

The main issue with regards to pastoral qualifications in this area seems to come down to the interpretation of what it means that a pastor must be the husband of one wife, since divorce itself isn't specifically mentioned in the list of qualifications. Along with this, as has been brought up in this thread, there seems to also be differences in interpretation as to what is meant by a man/pastor having his house in order and how that does or does not apply to who he marries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Absolutely God hates divorce, and Jesus made that clear. But He also made it clear that when a divorce happens, both parties are not always to blame - otherwise there would be no exception laid down in the Scripture for divorce.

Assigning blame where God doesn’t is creating a law, standard, or regulation that is outside of the Scriptures. That is pharisaical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Absolutely God hates divorce, and Jesus made that clear. But He also made it clear that when a divorce happens, both parties are not always to blame - otherwise there would be no exception laid down in the Scripture for divorce.

Assigning blame where God doesn’t is creating a law, standard, or regulation that is outside of the Scriptures. That is pharisaical.

How does what you are saying here apply to the question at hand?

Who decides, or how is it decided, who is responsible for a divorce? How does that apply to the question at hand?

Can a man who is married to a divorcee, a widow, his cousin, a 17 year old, a woman 40 years older than he, a woman of another denomination....biblically be a pastor? Why or why not?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

All I'm saying John is that if God makes allowances so should we. The common thinking among Baptists is that divorce automatically disqualifies a man from being a deacon let alone a pastor, now and forever. I think that line of thinking is unbiblical, heartless, and lacks discernment. Not trying to offend anyone here who thinks that way, I'm just being honest. If a man is divorced biblically, he shouldn't be treated like a second-class Christian who did something wrong - because he didn't. After all, God doesn't think so, so why should we?

I think more often than not a man that has been divorced will probably be disqualified from being in the ministry. The line of thinking that I'm trying to challenge here is that it automatically disqualifies him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

All I'm saying John is that if God makes allowances so should we. The common thinking among Baptists is that divorce automatically disqualifies a man from being a deacon let alone a pastor, now and forever. I think that line of thinking is unbiblical, heartless, and lacks discernment. Not trying to offend anyone here who thinks that way, I'm just being honest. If a man is divorced biblically, he shouldn't be treated like a second-class Christian who did something wrong - because he didn't. After all, God doesn't think so, so why should we?

I think more often than not a man that has been divorced will probably be disqualified from being in the ministry. The line of thinking that I'm trying to challenge here is that it automatically disqualifies him.

I'm not actually arguing against you, I'm trying to see your biblical position for this.

It has been asked if a man marries a divorcee, is he qualified to be a pastor or not. What are the biblical grounds for saying yes or no?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Absolutely God hates divorce, and Jesus made that clear. But He also made it clear that when a divorce happens, both parties are not always to blame - otherwise there would be no exception laid down in the Scripture for divorce.


Not everyone believes there are any "exceptions" given in scripture. As I said before, it is a matter of qualifications not a slam on anyone. A blind man isn't qualified to drive, a double amputee isn't qualified to compete in a foot race. It matters not at all how long ago they were disabled or whether their disability was their own fault or the fault of someone else. The fact remains that they are disabled regardless of the reason and can't do everything someone not suffering from that disability can do. Does that somehow make them "second class" citizens? No, of course not, there are other areas where their disability is not critical and there they can compete on a level field with others.

When a person has been married, and then that one flesh relationship joined together by God is put asunder by man contrary to Gods will it causes a spiritual traumatic injury and a resulting public and private disability of a sort that means there are a few things they can't do. David was a man after Gods own heart and was beloved of God yet God refused to allow him to fulfill his hearts desire to build the temple to the Lord because he was a "man of war" and had "shed blood". Was God slamming David or was he somehow not fully forgiven for his various sins? No, he had the "sure mercies of David" and was fully forgiven, he just wasn't qualified to do that particular job for the Lord because of the life he had led. Likewise Moses, certainly one of a half dozen or so men closest to God in all the scriptures was disqualified from leading the people across jordan and entering into the promise land because he had violated one of Gods pictures of Christ and smote the rock the second time when he was told by God to only speak to the rock on that occasion. As a consequence he disqualified himself and died without entering into the promise land even though at the time of his death "his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.". In other words he would have been fully capable of leading them across Jordan and doubtless would have done so but for the fact he was disqualified from that role. David and Moses were both close enough to God that they did not attempt to rebel against his will and accepted that they could not do these things even though in both cases it was a strong desire of their hearts and they were in a position where they could easily have proceeded in the flesh had they wished. I can truly say one of the things that grieves me most is when I see someone that has a heart for God and a desire to do something good for God and the ability to do it well, yet they simply are not qualified for the job because of past actions. It grieves me that metaphorically speaking sometimes David can't build the temple and sometimes Moses can't enter the promise land but sometimes that is just the way it is sad though it be. I have also seen the other side of the coin where the metaphoric David or Moses desires to do the particular thing for God so strongly that they simply will not listen to his will and proceed to do it anyway in the flesh. That is even sadder. I really think in such cases where a man has a heart to pastor and the ability to do it but yet is biblically disqualified the best thing he can do is follow the example of Moses and David. Moses helped Joshua as much as he could and prayed for him, David encouraged Solomon and charged him in the building of the temple as well as gathered together a large percentage of the materials Solomon would need for the temples construction. I think God blesses the obedience to his word in such cases and I believe God often shows the individual the promise land metaphorically speaking and gives their heart joy and peace in what he does allow them to do because they don't fret about what they can't do or enter into a state of biblical denial and do it anyway. :twocents:
. Edited by Seth-Doty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 43 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
×
×
  • Create New...