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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
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      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Pastoral Qualifications

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What the congregation thinks doesn't matter. It only matters what the Word says. There are many churches with women pastors and the congregations love them, believe they are great pastors and qualified to be pastors, but they base this not upon Scripture.



John, The thing is, because someone has done wrong, and others happen to see good come out of it, it does not mean God accepted it.

Pastorj, You acting like a child with the questions you ask. Your questions means nothing, but the Bible is everything. That is, your questions in not the guide, the Bible is.

The Bible is clear, the man that is married to a divorce woman, that has a living husband, is living in adultery, and her husband in a partner in the sin of adultery.
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Pastorj, You acting like a child with the questions you ask. Your questions means nothing, but the Bible is everything. That is, your questions in not the guide, the Bible is.

The Bible is clear, the man that is married to a divorce woman, that has a living husband, is living in adultery, and her husband in a partner in the sin of adultery.



Jerry,

I generally disagree with PastorJ's comments on this thread but I think he is right on this one: " A Pastor who is married to a divorced woman committed adultery (1 time, not living daily in it)." Scripturally once a divorced person has remarried, though that act is wrong, it is not a case of living in continued adultery.

Some scriptural support.


"Jeremiah 3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted?...."

And another that gives an indication in that direction: "John 4:17-18 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

Jesus said this woman had had "five husbands" and was currently living with someone not her husband. Now I suppose that this last verse isn't an airtight "proof", it is faintly possible that this woman had been widowed five times, but that seems pretty unlikely particularly in light of the fact that she was living in immorality with someone she was not married to when Jesus met her. It seems much more likely she had been divorced from some or all of her "five husbands"that Christ mentions. The fact that he says " thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband" seems to show he recognized the first five as a state of marriage rather than a state of continued adultery. Since the act of marrying a divorced person is an act he equaled with adultery, it seems that marrying a divorced person must be a one time act of adultery rather than a continued state particularly in light of Jeremiah 3:1.
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John, The thing is, because someone has done wrong, and others happen to see good come out of it, it does not mean God accepted it.


Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but that's what I was trying to say.
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Let's look at the qualifications
1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1. The first qualification is that you have to be a man. This eliminates women from the pastorate.
2. The second qualification is that you have to have a desire for the position. I believe this is a God given desire.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3. Blameless - the word means (Above Reproach). Some have said that the idea is that nothing can stick to you. It does not mean sinless.
4. Husband of one wife - Various opinions here, but I do not believe in divorce for any reason (Not going to argue this one) and therefore I believe if the man has been divorced he is disqualified
5. Vigilant - The word has the idea of watching circumspectly. This is an ability that not everyone has.
6. Sober - This is not dealing with alcohol, it is dealing with thinking clearly or someone with common sense.
7. Good Behavior - Just what it sounds like. The pastor must behave
8. Hospitable – Open hearted and generous
9. Apt to Teach – Ability to teach

1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
10. Not given to wine – Not only no alcohol, but to not be around people who are.
11. Not a striker – Vengeance is the Lord’s
12. Not greedy – Money should not be an issue for a Pastor
13. Patient – To deal with things appropriately
14. Not a brawler – Peaceable, not a fighter
15. Not covetous – Not desirous of other peoples belongings

1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

16. Rules his house well – Children are in subjection (Bible times – Age 12)

1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
17. Not a novice – New Christian or new to the ministry: The word novice means beginner.

1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
18. Have a good report with unsaved

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Now that I have given the qualifications, let's move to the question at hand.

Notice, there are no qualifications listed directly regarding the wife of the pastor, other than the implied dealing with the house. These verses state that the Pastor must have his house in order. A wife who is not in submission disqualifies that man from the pastorate.

Jerry## has said that a man who marries a divorced woman is disqualifed because he is an adulterer. I will agree that the Scriptures are clear that the man has committed the sin of adultery. A 1 time sin. Does this disqualify him from the ministry either for a short time, or permanently? I will answer this in a moment. Scripture also states: Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

God is clear in this passage that if you have looked on a woman to lust after her, you have committed adultery in God's eyes. The ten commandments are clear that if we steal, we are a thief. So the question is, at what point does an individual become disqualified?

Look at the qualifications again: He must be blameless and of a good report. If a man steals something he is at that point disqualified from the pastorate. But for how long. The answer is as long as that sin is a reproach in his life or as long as he does not have a good report. Yes there are consequences, but God forgives and no longer holds people accountable. Over time, the man will prove that he is no longer a thief and the reproach will go away and his good report will return. He is once again qualified to be a pastor. The same is true for the sin of adultery. A man who commits this sin as a young man could very well be qualified for the ministry when he is in his 40's.

If these two sins had permanent disqualification, then not too many men would ever be qualified to pastor as I doubt there are very many men on this earch that has never lusted after a woman and therefore committed adultery.


As stated, I would not vote for an individual who was married to a divorced woman, but if you are going to say they are disqualified, explain your position from Scripture.

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What the congregation thinks doesn't matter. It only matters what the Word says. There are many churches with women pastors and the congregations love them, believe they are great pastors and qualified to be pastors, but they base this not upon Scripture.


Yes it does matter what they think just like it matters what the unsaved think. This is what the whole "qualifications" passage is about. If a congregation is being edified and are being led to serve the Lord than who cares if the pastor is divorced. And with women's lib and the majority of divorces being initiated by women for the least little thing you better expect to see more divorced pastors in the pulpit.

As far as women pastors? It may get in such bad shape in America with the men it may come to this. Deborah led the children of Israel because no men could be found to do the job.
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John, The thing is, because someone has done wrong, and others happen to see good come out of it, it does not mean God accepted it.




You folks don't seem to grasp the issue. If a congregation has a pastor that is divorced and that congregation is being led to serve the Lord than it is up to that congregation to decide whether to keep him or not. It doesn't matter what we think. And I guarantee God is more pleased with that then with some Pharisical pastor (with only "one living wife") who leads the sheep no place but to the offering plate.
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Now that I have given the qualifications, let's move to the question at hand.

Notice, there are no qualifications listed directly regarding the wife of the pastor, other than the implied dealing with the house. These verses state that the Pastor must have his house in order. A wife who is not in submission disqualifies that man from the pastorate.

Jerry## has said that a man who marries a divorced woman is disqualifed because he is an adulterer. I will agree that the Scriptures are clear that the man has committed the sin of adultery. A 1 time sin. Does this disqualify him from the ministry either for a short time, or permanently? I will answer this in a moment. Scripture also states: Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

God is clear in this passage that if you have looked on a woman to lust after her, you have committed adultery in God's eyes. The ten commandments are clear that if we steal, we are a thief. So the question is, at what point does an individual become disqualified?

Look at the qualifications again: He must be blameless and of a good report. If a man steals something he is at that point disqualified from the pastorate. But for how long. The answer is as long as that sin is a reproach in his life or as long as he does not have a good report. Yes there are consequences, but God forgives and no longer holds people accountable. Over time, the man will prove that he is no longer a thief and the reproach will go away and his good report will return. He is once again qualified to be a pastor. The same is true for the sin of adultery. A man who commits this sin as a young man could very well be qualified for the ministry when he is in his 40's.

If these two sins had permanent disqualification, then not too many men would ever be qualified to pastor as I doubt there are very many men on this earch that has never lusted after a woman and therefore committed adultery.


As stated, I would not vote for an individual who was married to a divorced woman, but if you are going to say they are disqualified, explain your position from Scripture.


I think I know where we differ, I did very much appreciate your post breaking down the qualifications though...thanks.

I think we differ in the respect that you believe a Pastor marrying a divorced woman is only a one time sin of adultery. I would contest it is a continuous and willing sin of adultery. If you steal something when you are little it's a one time thing, if you slip and lust after another woman in your heart you've just committed adultery but it was a one time thing...probably repented and asked forgiveness. But, if you are CONTINUALLY in a relationship with a woman who is divorced, this is not a one time thing...this is continuous and to me the Pastor would NOT be blameless.

Can a man who has made a mistake and lusted after a woman which means he committed adultery in his heart still be a Pastor? I believe so, because it was a one time sin and as long as he repents (guess you really won't know since we can't read minds or hearts) but I think you get my point. But, I have a hard time believing that is the same as being married to a divorced woman...you are committing adultery every day basically (willingly and knowingly I might add).
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You folks don't seem to grasp the issue. If a congregation has a pastor that is divorced and that congregation is being led to serve the Lord than it is up to that congregation to decide whether to keep him or not. It doesn't matter what we think. And I guarantee God is more pleased with that then with some Pharisical pastor (with only "one living wife") who leads the sheep no place but to the offering plate.


It's not that they don't grasp the issue, same could be said of you I suppose but we are looking at it in two different ways. I would be reluctant to guarantee anything that God is thinking or more pleased with and would actually venture to guess God is displeased with both. But, I wouldn't guarantee it.

It's true, it doesn't matter what we think only what the Bible says. If many are in agreement that the Bible does state a Pastor should not be divorced then God has a specific reason for not allowing that and we should follow it. No matter if we think a divorced person would make a good Pastor or not...if God commands it, that settles it and we should know there is a good reason for it.
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Yes it does matter what they think just like it matters what the unsaved think. This is what the whole "qualifications" passage is about. If a congregation is being edified and are being led to serve the Lord than who cares if the pastor is divorced. And with women's lib and the majority of divorces being initiated by women for the least little thing you better expect to see more divorced pastors in the pulpit.

As far as women pastors? It may get in such bad shape in America with the men it may come to this. Deborah led the children of Israel because no men could be found to do the job.

Where in the pastoral qualifications does it say a man must have the approval of a congregation to be qualified to be a pastor?

Where in the pastoral qualifications does it insinuate that God ever accepts for any reason women pastors?

NOTE: Deborah was not a pastor and has no application whatsoever to who can or can't be a pastor according to the Word of God.
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You folks don't seem to grasp the issue. If a congregation has a pastor that is divorced and that congregation is being led to serve the Lord than it is up to that congregation to decide whether to keep him or not. It doesn't matter what we think. And I guarantee God is more pleased with that then with some Pharisical pastor (with only "one living wife") who leads the sheep no place but to the offering plate.

Scripture says God's desire is for us to obey His Word. An unqualified person acting as pastor of a congregation that thinks they are great and are claiming to be edified, is not acting within the will of God and is not pleasing God with their disobedience.
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I think I know where we differ, I did very much appreciate your post breaking down the qualifications though...thanks.

I think we differ in the respect that you believe a Pastor marrying a divorced woman is only a one time sin of adultery. I would contest it is a continuous and willing sin of adultery. If you steal something when you are little it's a one time thing, if you slip and lust after another woman in your heart you've just committed adultery but it was a one time thing...probably repented and asked forgiveness. But, if you are CONTINUALLY in a relationship with a woman who is divorced, this is not a one time thing...this is continuous and to me the Pastor would NOT be blameless.

Can a man who has made a mistake and lusted after a woman which means he committed adultery in his heart still be a Pastor? I believe so, because it was a one time sin and as long as he repents (guess you really won't know since we can't read minds or hearts) but I think you get my point. But, I have a hard time believing that is the same as being married to a divorced woman...you are committing adultery every day basically (willingly and knowingly I might add).

The man who marries a divorced woman could be said to have committed adultery with her when this occurs. However, from that point onward they are husband and wife. There is no condoning of wrongly married couples getting a divorce (sin), nor of wrongly married couples being considered to be in perpetual sin whether it's because one was divorced, was not saved, etc.

Like all sin, if it is confessed God is faithful to forgive. From that point forward that sin is gone as far as the east from the west. God can and does bless marriages of those who married wrongly. If their wrongful marriage was a perpetual sin in the eyes of God then He would not bless their marriage.
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The man who marries a divorced woman could be said to have committed adultery with her when this occurs. However, from that point onward they are husband and wife. There is no condoning of wrongly married couples getting a divorce (sin), nor of wrongly married couples being considered to be in perpetual sin whether it's because one was divorced, was not saved, etc.

Like all sin, if it is confessed God is faithful to forgive. From that point forward that sin is gone as far as the east from the west. God can and does bless marriages of those who married wrongly. If their wrongful marriage was a perpetual sin in the eyes of God then He would not bless their marriage.


Hmm, I suppose I have a hard time understanding this. God will forgive, surely but if God still considers the divorced wife married to the other person woudn't the Pastor have to repent and separate with his wife? Or does he ask for forgiveness everyday he is living with her because it's just a new day of adultery isn't it?

It's as if I would lie one day and ask God to forgive me, then I lie the next day and ask God to forgive me then I lie the next day and ask God to forgive me....but really I should have repented and stopped lying (or made a concerted effort to never do it again if I could). Of course, maybe 6 months down the road I lie again and we go through the process again. But, if I continue to do it everyday it seems that is not the right way go go about repenting of our sins and asking forgiveness. Do you see where I am coming from? Am I wrong on this?
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Hmm, I suppose I have a hard time understanding this. God will forgive, surely but if God still considers the divorced wife married to the other person woudn't the Pastor have to repent and separate with his wife? Or does he ask for forgiveness everyday he is living with her because it's just a new day of adultery isn't it?

It's as if I would lie one day and ask God to forgive me, then I lie the next day and ask God to forgive me then I lie the next day and ask God to forgive me....but really I should have repented and stopped lying (or made a concerted effort to never do it again if I could). Of course, maybe 6 months down the road I lie again and we go through the process again. But, if I continue to do it everyday it seems that is not the right way go go about repenting of our sins and asking forgiveness. Do you see where I am coming from? Am I wrong on this?

A new marriage has taken place. Though the marriage was entered into wrongly (in sin), whether due to one being divorced, one being unsaved, etc., there is now a new marriage. This couple is married and from that point forward are responsbile to live as a married couple in accord with the Word. Once the sin of their original coupling has been confessed before God, they receive forgiveness and are now accountable to how they deal with their marriage in accord with the Word of God.

A wrongly married couple could not erase the sin of having married a divorced woman by committing more sin by divorcing.
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A new marriage has taken place. Though the marriage was entered into wrongly (in sin), whether due to one being divorced, one being unsaved, etc., there is now a new marriage. This couple is married and from that point forward are responsbile to live as a married couple in accord with the Word. Once the sin of their original coupling has been confessed before God, they receive forgiveness and are now accountable to how they deal with their marriage in accord with the Word of God.

A wrongly married couple could not erase the sin of having married a divorced woman by committing more sin by divorcing.


Ok, I understand what you are saying. But, does God even consider that second marriage a marriage? If not, then it wouldn't be a divorce in God's eyes...only on paper in this world.
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Ok, I understand what you are saying. But, does God even consider that second marriage a marriage? If not, then it wouldn't be a divorce in God's eyes...only on paper in this world.


God does recognize separate marriages as being legitimate marriages. A person that is remarried doesn't have to divorce his current spouse and try to hook back up again with his first one. Jesus said...

John 4:18, "For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

This woman was shacking up with a man, and Christ recognized that it wasn't a marriage. He went further to recognize that the woman in the past had five separate marriages as well.

You already know where I stand on some divorce being biblical, but this helps to show that even if a remarriage was unbiblical it isn't a case of perpetual sin.
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Jerry,

I generally disagree with PastorJ's comments on this thread but I think he is right on this one: " A Pastor who is married to a divorced woman committed adultery (1 time, not living daily in it)." Scripturally once a divorced person has remarried, though that act is wrong, it is not a case of living in continued adultery.

Some scriptural support.


"Jeremiah 3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted?...."

And another that gives an indication in that direction: "John 4:17-18 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

Jesus said this woman had had "five husbands" and was currently living with someone not her husband. Now I suppose that this last verse isn't an airtight "proof", it is faintly possible that this woman had been widowed five times, but that seems pretty unlikely particularly in light of the fact that she was living in immorality with someone she was not married to when Jesus met her. It seems much more likely she had been divorced from some or all of her "five husbands"that Christ mentions. The fact that he says " thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband" seems to show he recognized the first five as a state of marriage rather than a state of continued adultery. Since the act of marrying a divorced person is an act he equaled with adultery, it seems that marrying a divorced person must be a one time act of adultery rather than a continued state particularly in light of Jeremiah 3:1.


Ro 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Ro 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Its very clear form the Holy Scriptures, that the woman that has divorce, who has remarried, that as long as her 1st husband shall live, she shall be called an adulteress.

So that means you two disagree with the Bible by saying it just a one time thing.

Oh, the man she is married to is aiding her in being an adulteress, so no, he is not qualified to be a pastor of a New Testament Church, or at least on that's head is Jesus Christ.

I say that because anyone can start a church and they are free to use what ever rules they want. But of course they would not be following Christ. We have many such churches in this world.
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Brother Jerry,

Would you counsel a remarried woman to divorce her current spouse?

Would you counsel her to try and hook up with her original spouse, even if he was remarried as well?

Please don't brush these questions aside, they're very serious and very real applicable questions based on what you just said.

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Chevy,
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Sorry, Pastorj, but lust is not specificially listed as a disqualification for the pastorate. Neither is adultery. Yes, both are sin, but neither is listed as a disqualification, according to 1 Timothy 3. And that's the Scripture you're basing your argument upon.

However, I think we all agree that a pastor caught in adultery should leave the pastorate, and any good report he may have had would be destroyed. He may have even been ruling his own house well, just not his own life. But you like to say "show me the Scripture," and I'm asking you for your scriptural proof that lust and adultery specifically disqualify a man from the pastorate, and you can't do it. Because there is none.

Same goes for pastor's wife being under subjection - not in Scripture. You say there are no qualifications specifically mentioned for pastors' wives - only for deacons' wives - and I agree. 1 Timothy 3 says nothing about a pastor's wife, which you have clearly and correctly stated.

But you also claim Scripture says a pastor's wife must be under her husband's subjection, and I've asked you to produce that Scripture. You can't, because it's not there. If "ruling his own house well" applies to family, why are children singled out? Scripture does say that all wives are to be submissive to their husbands, but nothing specifically says a pastor's wife must be.

The point I'm trying to make is that you trumpet that Scripture gives qualifications for deacons' wives but not for pastors' wives, except for subjection. I'm pointing out that Scripture doesn't say anything about your subjection claim. Therefore you're adding something to 1 Timothy 3 that's not there.

You have a tendency to say "show me the specific Scripture" when you disagree with someone, but when someone turns the tables on you, you do the same thing you accuse them of doing.
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Chevy,

We aren't in disagreement on the adultery piece. If you read my post I make it clear that the sin of adultery in itself does not disqualify a man. It causes him to be disqualified because he is no longer blameless.

As to the subjection. Again, I said in my breakdown of the qualifications that the pastor must rule his own house well, having his children under subjection. The wife is under his leadership in the house and therefore part of the this qualification. That is about it for the qualifications of a wife. The reason for this, is she is a help meet to her husband, not part of the leadership. On the other hand, a Deacon's wife is very involved in ministering to people and therefore has Scriptural qualifications.

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