Members John81 Posted May 3, 2011 Members Share Posted May 3, 2011 No, I'm not, brother. I'm trying to show the inconsistencies of saying the Bible says something that it doesn't actually say. Exactly. My point is this: it's not clear. It says: "The husband of one wife" NOT "the husband of one wife for his entire life" (which would include before salvation) and NOT "the husband of one wife right now." It can go one of two ways. I believe there is much more evidence that it is the latter than the former. The examples you used about gays and women preachers don't apply here - the Bible is very clear on those subjects. -- I hope no one has been offended personally by my comments in this thread. I hate divorce and I think it's a terrible thing. By the grace of God, my wife and I will never go down that road. Self imposed rule: we're not even allowed to talk about it. That being said, I don't see any evidence in the Bible that a divorce in the distant past, yea even in a man's unsaved life, permanently bars him from being a deacon. I believe there are two extreme unbiblical positions on this subject. One is the "who cares" mentality about divorce and the other is "I'm holding that against you forever" teaching. I think BOTH are wrong and unbiblical. What matters is what the Bible says, not the world's standards (the former) or Baptist tradition (the latter). Actually, it is clear, "the husband of one wife". Since it doesn't say "except for..."or "unless...", we should take it as it stands without trying to "clarify" if by bringing up issues and points the Holy Ghost didn't deem it necessary to go into. As LuAnn pointed out, previous to our times the qualifications were pretty much accepted across the board. It wasn't until modernism, humanism and feminism really began permeating the churches that questions and "exceptions" came into being. DennisD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Calvary Posted May 5, 2011 Members Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Are you claiming there's no such thing as a missionary?Of course not. I am a missionary. Ac 13:1 ¶ Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. Ac 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. Ac 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. In the above verses this church clearly approved of their calling, gave them the blessing, ordaining them for the work set before them by the Holy Ghost. I will say that at times a pastor is sent forth as a missionary by a church. Usually this man is sent out with the authority from his sending church to start a church. I recall such a situation. I attended a meeting with a group of church the purpose being the sending of a pastor, as a missionary, to Nevada in the heart of Mormon country. Thanks for changing to perspective from attitude. There is no use in us using such language towards one another, that just causes fire.Not a problem, I saw where it was changing the tone of my post. If you will read thru the New Testament you will find several that were sent, that were never pastor of a church.I have read through the Bible over 40 times my friend. That is not the problem. By the way, I don't see no scriptural support for what you seem to claim.I'm not sure I'm claiming anything other than that a God called minister is a God called minister. It's men who have made through their traditions a "missionary" class servant. And that is what I cannot find in the scriptures. In fact Paul, whom we should agree was a missionary had authority that supersedes pastors in several places. He said he "robbed other churches" to pay the wages of the Corinthians. Brother, what and how do we explain that? He said that not only did he suffer many things at the hands of others for preaching the gospel, he also said that "Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches." According to Hebrews 13, its pastors that have the care of the church. My point is this brother, a missionary (and I won't argue the title) is every bit as called to minister, lead, direct, care for, build up and oversee the local church as any pastor. I'm trying to say, exactly what is it that I am not authorized to do as a "missionary" that you are authorized to do as a "pastor"? Well, that is the basic idea I was trying to get across. I found it very odd that someone seemed to suggest that if a missionary was divorced he could continue to minister, and it seemed to me that there was some sort of idea that any man called to the full time ministry does not have to meet the Biblical requirements (not standards) of the ministry. Edited May 5, 2011 by Calvary HappyChristian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastorj Posted May 6, 2011 Members Share Posted May 6, 2011 Calvary, Would you agree that not all missionaries are pastors? I agree with you that the majority of missionaries serving the Lord are Pastor's and ought to hold to the qualifications of 1 Tim. 3. However, I know of a few missionaries that are not serving as Pastors. Some examples: Missionary Pilots in Alaska - They transport pastors from church to church. Single Lady Missionaries - Serving in churches all over the world. They assist the pastor and usually run children's ministries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Calvary Posted May 6, 2011 Members Share Posted May 6, 2011 Calvary, Would you agree that not all missionaries are pastors? I agree with you that the majority of missionaries serving the Lord are Pastor's and ought to hold to the qualifications of 1 Tim. 3. However, I know of a few missionaries that are not serving as Pastors. Some examples: Missionary Pilots in Alaska - They transport pastors from church to church. Single Lady Missionaries - Serving in churches all over the world. They assist the pastor and usually run children's ministries Absolutely. I am confining my remarks to "church planting" missionaries. My perspective is that, I have found over the years many pastors stateside don't understand the dynamic of what a church planting missionary really does. I am not alone in this thinking, as a missionary, I of course have dozens of missionary friends who have perceived the same failing in men who pastor. I do not think it is a general rule however that stateside pastors are not appreciative of the work we do as church planters and most pastors have great respect for foreign missioanries. I say that just in case this comes across as a complaint dept. :-) My question is this: Exactly where does a pastor"s authority differ from that of a church planting missionary on a foreign field? Ya know, Carrie Suhl, a great lady who supplies me with Bibles for several years is a devoted missionary in Mexico. Her husband was called home to the Lord and she remained in Mexico to help local churches get Bibles free of charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Melodys Posted May 6, 2011 Members Share Posted May 6, 2011 I think its sad we have to have a debate on this. The world has become so desensitized to sin. How did we get so far away from God's Word so quickly? America's view of marriage has been so distorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted May 6, 2011 Administrators Share Posted May 6, 2011 I think its sad we have to have a debate on this. The world has become so desensitized to sin. How did we get so far away from God's Word so quickly? America's view of marriage has been so distorted. :amen: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 6, 2011 Members Share Posted May 6, 2011 I think its sad we have to have a debate on this. The world has become so desensitized to sin. How did we get so far away from God's Word so quickly? America's view of marriage has been so distorted. Some, do not have ears to hear with, others just fail to understand the Bible, God's way. One thing I have noticed for most people, if they're 1st taught one thing about God, Jesus, Church, ect., they seem bent towards sticking to it till they die, no matter what anyone shows them within the pages of the Bible. That is my humble opinion about the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastorj Posted May 7, 2011 Members Share Posted May 7, 2011 Calvary, I for one believe that most missionaries are "Pastors" in a foreign country and therefore must meet the qualifications of a pastor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 7, 2011 Members Share Posted May 7, 2011 Calvary, I for one believe that most missionaries are "Pastors" in a foreign country and therefore must meet the qualifications of a pastor. Amazing, we are finding some other things of which we agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastorj Posted May 7, 2011 Members Share Posted May 7, 2011 Jerry8, There are a lot of things we agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wilchbla Posted May 8, 2011 Members Share Posted May 8, 2011 Some, do not have ears to hear with, others just fail to understand the Bible, God's way. Yes, if we could only understand as you do, Jerry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Calvary Posted May 8, 2011 Members Share Posted May 8, 2011 Calvary, I for one believe that most missionaries are "Pastors" in a foreign country and therefore must meet the qualifications of a pastor. Yeah, I see it that way too. My apologies for hijacking the thread a little. I know I am a pastor, and I know that as soon as the Lord outfits this church, we will be moving on. That is the part that is hard. God bless, Calvary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Rick Posted May 9, 2011 Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) Actually, it is clear, "the husband of one wife". Since it doesn't say "except for..."or "unless...", we should take it as it stands without trying to "clarify" if by bringing up issues and points the Holy Ghost didn't deem it necessary to go into. As LuAnn pointed out, previous to our times the qualifications were pretty much accepted across the board. It wasn't until modernism, humanism and feminism really began permeating the churches that questions and "exceptions" came into being. Once again, Baptist tradition is being used to prove something that the Bible doesn't say. Here's what the Bible says: 1. It is possible to be divorced and blameless (Matt. 5, 19, I Cor. 7). 2. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance (Rom. 11:29). 3. That Jesus recognizes ("thou HAST HAD...") separate marriages at separate times as being separate, not "five living husbands" (John 4:18). 4. That a man can be the "chief" of sinners before he was saved, having tormented Christians and maybe even killed them directly or indirectly, and still be qualified to be a pastor and write half the New Testament AFTER he was saved (I Tim. 1:15). In conclusion, I agree with what the Bible says when it says that a pastor or deacon must be the husband of one wife to be qualified to serve in that capacity. Edited May 9, 2011 by Rick Schworer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted May 9, 2011 Administrators Share Posted May 9, 2011 Once again, Baptist tradition is being used to prove something that the Bible doesn't say. Here's what the Bible says: 1. It is possible to be divorced and blameless (Matt. 5, 19, I Cor. 7). 2. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance (Rom. 11:29). 3. That Jesus recognizes ("thou HAST HAD...") separate marriages at separate times as being separate, not "five living husbands" (John 4:18). 4. That a man can be the "chief" of sinners before he was saved, having tormented Christians and maybe even killed them directly or indirectly, and still be qualified to be a pastor and write half the New Testament AFTER he was saved (I Tim. 1:15). In conclusion, I agree with what the Bible says when it says that a pastor or deacon must be the husband of one wife to be qualified to serve in that capacity. Rick, it goes a lot further back than Baptist tradition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 9, 2011 Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 Its not Baptist tradition, its Bible teachings. As for Paul, he was not a pastor, he was an apostle selected by Jesus Himself. There were many great wonderful Christians prior to the founding on a single New Testament Church by Jesus Christ, and before the qualifications for being a pastor of one of Jesus' New Testament Churches, that would not qualify to be pastor of a New Testament Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts