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These questions stem from some other threads but I would like to concentrate upon this aspect here.

Will there be no Rapture, one Rapture, two Raptures, three Raptures or more? There seems to be several views of this, some I've heard before, some I don't think I have.

Along with how many Raptures there will be, please explain when you believe one or more may take place, or why you think there will be none. Also, who will be Raptured when?


In 1,3,4,and 5 the body of the Saints are redeemed from the earth. In 2 the church age believers both dead and living are raptured.

The Five Phases of the First Resurrection
(1) Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Psalms 68:18 KJV, Ephesians 4:8 KJV
(2) The Holy Spirit and the church age saints are caught up to heaven before the antichrist Is given power in the Christian nations. 2Thessalonians 2:3-12, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 also see John16:7-8 KJV
(3)The mid tribulation catching up will include the two witnesses Revelation11:3,7-14 KJV, the 144,000 sealed Jews from Revelation chapter 7 who where redeemed from the earth. See Revelation 14:1-4, and the redeemed dead saints from the first half of the Tribulation. See Revelation 15:1-4KJV
(4) The dead saints from the last half of the tribulation are redeemed from the earth after the tribulation. Revelation 20:4KJV
(5) The dead saints from the Kingdom age will be judged at the great white throne judgment along with the second resurrection sinners. Revelation 20:11-15KJV

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Could you post the verses which go with each of these so I can look into it more closely?

The idea of multiple "raptures" is a concept imposed on Scripture by faulty hermeneutics. When we examine the cited Scriptures, we need to consider the context & the teaching of Jesus & the Apostles about the last day, resurrection, judgment & eternity.

RS has acknowledged that Paul & co. were concerned with the present Gospel age, & therefore said little or nothing about tribulation/rapture/millennium, etc. We look in vain for clear teaching in support of the "rapture" concept as taught.

Can we begin by considering ONE final resurrection & judgment when Jesus returns, so that all the different supposed raptures are one resurrection, followed by the NH&NE.

It comes down to whether the OT prophecies are essentially fulfilled in & by Jesus, or have a fulfillment that Jesus & his Apostles (speaking & writing under Holy Spirit inspiration) never mentioned. Edited by Covenanter

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1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; —2 Timothy 4:1 KJV

2 Timothy 4:1 tells us that there will be judgments at Jesus’ appearing (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18), and at His kingdom that starts at the last trumpet judgment, and when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ (Revelation 11:15), because the Devil is defeated in war in heaven and is cast to the earth. (Revelation 12:7-12)


23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
—Romans 8:22–23 KJV

Is your head spinning because you never heard about two raptures or redemptions?
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
—Ephesians 4:8 KJV

When Jesus died on the cross for our sins, He was buried. He then went to paradise, called the bosom of Abraham, which was in the bowels of the earth next to hell. Lazarus, the poor beggar, went to paradise when he died, described in Luke 16:19–31. When Jesus went to heaven after His resurrection, He took captivity captive and gave gifts unto men. This was the first phase of the first resurrection and redemption. Jesus took all the Old Testament saints from paradise to heaven to be rewarded. Those Old Testament saints were saved by faith and are part of the first resurrection!

Revelation 20:4–6 KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the wit- ness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The saints who die during the second half of the tribulation period will not worship the Antichrist or his image. They are also part of the first resurrection. These are the first four phases of the first resurrection.

116 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING

I believe there will be a fifth phase of the first resurrection after the thousand-year reign of Christ called the kingdom age.

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How Many Raptures Will There Be?






Featured Date:

2012-01-28

Link:

1903c

Body:


Search the Scriptures Daily Program #1903c:
Gary: You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily , a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, Dave and Tom continue their weekly in-depth study of the Doctrine of Salvation. Please stay with us.
CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH
Now, Contending for the Faith. In this regular feature, Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call . Here’s this week’s question: “Dear Tom and Dave, I used to think that there were only two different views related to the Rapture of the church: the Pre-tribulation and Post-tribulation beliefs. Now I’ve learned that some teach a Pre-wrath Rapture, a Partial Rapture, and no Rapture. This is starting to get pretty confusing. Is the Bible not clear on this subject?”
Tom: Dave, the issue of the Rapture—this isn’t an issue which has to do with fellowship, I don’t believe. On the other hand, there are some pretty aggressive views out there about this.
Dave: Yeah. We don’t break fellowship with people over this, but sometimes it could be difficult to have consistent fellowship with someone who is pushing a contradictory view and it is causing division. They are becoming aggressive and unreasonable…I’m trying to think of another word…unpleasant about it. It certainly does not involve our salvation. The gospel is very clearly stated how that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, was buried, rose again the third day, according to the Scriptures—you believe that, you are saved, and it has nothing to do with the Rapture.
On the other hand, it is an important teaching of the Bible, and we must stand firm on everything the Bible teaches. Is it clear? I think it’s quite clear! Jesus, in John 14, said, “I am going to go away and prepare a place for you, and if I go away I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there you may be also.” And He told them He was going to His Father’s house of many mansions, and that would be where He would be preparing a place from them, okay? So that certainly sounds as though He is going to take His own.
Tom: Now, the term, Rapture, you don’t find it in the Bible.
Dave: Yeah, you do, in the Latin.
Tom: But we don’t read the Latin Vulgate.
Dave: It simply means an ecstatic catching away. But look, Jesus said, “I am going to come, take you to my Father’s house,” okay? Paul, in 1 Thessalonians, chapter 4, beginning at verse 13—and we can’t go into all the verses, but—well, he says, “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are asleep, [that means they died)] that ye sorrow not, even as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so those who sleep in Jesus [those who have died in faith in Christ] God will bring with him.” They must be in heaven—“absent from the body, present with the Lord, which is far better.” He’s going to bring the souls and spirits with Him. “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Tom: So, this “caught up”—that’s the meaning of the term “Rapture.”
Dave: Right. That’s where you have the Latin term, Raptus Repere. I don’t remember which is the infinitive and which is the verb and so forth, and so forth, and the Bible clearly teaches this. This is the hope—“looking for the blessed hope, the glorious appearing of the great God, our savior Jesus Christ.”
Tom: Dave, how is this split up then—pre-wrath, partial Rapture?
Dave: Well, people try to find some basis. Some people say, “Well, it’s going to be at the end of the Great Tribulation”—that’s Post-trib. But Jesus said, “As it was in the days of Noah, the days of Lot. They are buying, selling, building, planting, partying, and marrying. That’s how it will be in the day when the Son of Man appears,” okay? That doesn’t sound like the end of the Great Tribulation.
Furthermore, Matthew:24:44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh., Jesus said, “At such an hour as you think not, the Son of man cometh.” Well, we know he is coming at the end of the Great Tribulation because He comes in the midst of Armageddon to rescue Israel and to stop the destruction: “Except those days be shortened, no flesh would survive.”
But if He’s coming also at a time when no one would expect Him, that must be something else. That could only be before the Great Tribulation, a time of peace, prosperity, and not expecting Him: “when you think not.”
Now, the very fact that the early church expected Him, was looking for Him: “unto them that look for him shall he appear. You turn to God from idols to serve the living and true God, wait for his Son from heaven,” and so forth. The very fact that the Bible ends “Even so, come, Lord Jesus”—if He can’t come until after Antichrist has been revealed (that’s the pre-wrath position—that when the Antichrist has been revealed, then God is going to pour out His wrath; we’ve got to face the Antichrist, and then God will take us). If He can’t come until after the Antichrist or after the Great Tribulation or until some certain event happens, then we’ve lost imminency, and you couldn’t say that He could come at any moment. Then, it wouldn’t be right for us to say, “Come Lord Jesus!” That’s quite simple. So, people have come up with various views.
Tom: Dave, last one—we’ve got about a minute. Partial Rapture—must be based on works, I guess.
Dave: Well, if you’re not living for Jesus—I guess they would get that from Hebrews:9:27-28 [27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
: “Unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” However, Tom, there is no partial taking of…well, look, my parents are with the Lord, I believe; the Apostle Paul is with the Lord. Millions of Christians have died, they are absent from the body, present with the Lord. Never does it say some of them didn’t make it because they weren’t living a good enough life. If that didn’t happen to them when they died, then it’s not going to happen to those of us who are alive. Do we have to live a better life than they did in order to meet those who are already in heaven—who were all taken upon death? All will be taken at the Rapture. There is no basis for a Partial Rapture in the Bible.

http://www.thebereancall.org/content/how-many-raptures-will-there-be

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RS has acknowledged that Paul & co. were concerned with the present Gospel age, & therefore said little or nothing about tribulation/rapture/millennium, etc. We look in vain for clear teaching in support of the "rapture" concept as taught.



Actually, what I stated was that the writers of the New Testament didn't spend a lot of time focusing on the Millennial kingdom because it is Jewish in nature, as in the 300,000 square miles of ground that was promised to Abraham's seed. This isn't to say that it's not mentioned though, it is. The Tribulation/Rapture/Second Coming are very important subjects and are mentioned often in the New Testament. Matthew 24-25, I Thess 4, I Cor. 15, Revelation, etc

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Actually, what I stated was that the writers of the New Testament didn't spend a lot of time focusing on the Millennial kingdom because it is Jewish in nature, as in the 300,000 square miles of ground that was promised to Abraham's seed. This isn't to say that it's not mentioned though, it is. The Tribulation/Rapture/Second Coming are very important subjects and are mentioned often in the New Testament. Matthew 24-25, I Thess 4, I Cor. 15, Revelation, etc



Exactly! The Millennial Kingdom is definitely Jewish in nature! The Church age believers are not looking for the Antichrist, we are looking (and loving) Christ's glorious appearing FOR us "in the air"

2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

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I love the words 'Blessed Hope,' in Titus 2:13, & to think of the feelings we will have when we see His 'Glorious appearing.'

Makes me think of this old hymn.


There will be a happy meeting in Heaven, I know
When we see the many loved ones we've known here below
Gathered on that blessed hilltop with hearts all aglow
That will be a glad reunion day.
A glad day, a wonderful day,
A glad day, a glorious day
There with all the holy angels and loved ones to stay
That will be a glad reunion day.

When we live a million years in that wonderful place
Basking in the love of Jesus, beholding His face
It will seem but just a moment of praising His grace
That will be a glad reunion day.
A glad day, a wonderful day,
A glad day, a glorious day
There with all the holy angels and loved ones to stay
That will be a glad reunion day.

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I love the words 'Blessed Hope,' in Titus 2:13, & to think of the feelings we will have when we see His 'Glorious appearing.'

Makes me think of this old hymn.


There will be a happy meeting in Heaven, I know
When we see the many loved ones we've known here below
Gathered on that blessed hilltop with hearts all aglow
That will be a glad reunion day.
A glad day, a wonderful day,
A glad day, a glorious day
There with all the holy angels and loved ones to stay
That will be a glad reunion day.

When we live a million years in that wonderful place
Basking in the love of Jesus, beholding His face
It will seem but just a moment of praising His grace
That will be a glad reunion day.
A glad day, a wonderful day,
A glad day, a glorious day
There with all the holy angels and loved ones to stay
That will be a glad reunion day.


Or another along the same lines, "Is it the Crowning Day?"


Jesus may come today
Glad day, glad day!
And I would see my Friend;
Dangers and troubles would end
If Jesus should come today.
Refrain
Glad day, glad day!
Is it the crowning day?
I’ll live for today, nor anxious be;
Jesus, my Lord I soon shall see.
Glad day, glad day!
Is it the crowning day?

I may go home today
Glad day, glad day!
Seemeth I hear their song;
Hail to the radiant throng!
If I should go home today.
Refrain

Why should I anxious be?
Glad day, glad day!
Lights appear on the shore,
Storms will affright nevermore,
For He is “at hand” today.
Refrain

Faithful I’ll be today,
Glad day, glad day!
And I will freely tell
Why I should love Him so well,
For He is my all today.
Refrain

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Exactly! The Millennial Kingdom is definitely Jewish in nature! The Church age believers are not looking for the Antichrist, we are looking (and loving) Christ's glorious appearing FOR us "in the air"

2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Those verses - & those cited & linked by Rick - do not TEACH a rapture, but are used to support that teaching. The literal teachingof the verses is of the resurrection.

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Isaiah 19:23-25 In that day (millennium) Egypt and Syria will be three with Israel. God said they are my children. The Millennium is not just a Jewish thing. In fact I will be there with you all too!

Edited by Eric Stahl

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Those verses - & those cited & linked by Rick - do not TEACH a rapture, but are used to support that teaching. The literal teachingof the verses is of the resurrection.


Hint, at the resurrection there will be a rapture, & Jesus will take His own out of this world, as He has promised.

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1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The English word “rapture” comes from the Latin raptus, meaning “seized” or “carried away.”

Strong's Greek Dictionary
726. harpazo
harpazo har-pad'-zo

from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

Way of Life Encyclopedia
RAPTURE

The term commonly used for the catching away of the saints described in 1Th 4:13-18. This Rapture is (1) a resurrection of the dead in Christ (v. 14-16), (2) a catching up and translation of the living N.T. saints (v. 17). The term "caught up" in 1Th 4:17 is also translated "pluck" (Joh 10:28), "pulling [out of the fire]" (Jude 1:23), and "take by force" (Ac 23:10). It refers to a forceful seizing and a snatching away. It is used of the devil snatching the word of God from the heart of the foolish (Mt 13:19) and of the Spirit of God snatching away Philip after the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch (Ac 8:39). This is exactly what Christ will do to the N.T. believers before the onslaught of the Great Tribulation. This event is also described in 1Co 15:51-58. Here we see that the translation of the N.T. saints will involve an instantaneous change from morality to immortality. Those believers living at that hour will never see death (v. 51).

Edited by LindaR

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So...you guys believe in the "Rapture Theory"? :huh: do you also believe in the OSAS and UR theories???

The Rapture is not a theory...it is a biblical teaching. God has promised born again believers/the Body of Christ/the Church that He will save them from His wrath, which will come upon all Christ rejecters. This is called the 7 year tribulation period.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

OSAS is not a "theory" either. I think most posters on this board believe in the eternal security of the born again believer.

I have no idea what the UR "theory" is. Would you define this for those who don't know what it is, please?

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I think that everything is a theory until it becomes a reality, then it is no-longer a theory...

UR is Universal Reconciliation. - All human life will be able to reconcile back to God even those who have gone into hell. Their time in hell will give them an opportunity to repent and be reconciled to God. There is no "Lake of Fire" no=one burns. Even the Fallen one's have a chance of being restored back to God...[supposedly]

Is the "Rapture" also part of the Independent Baptist belief?

Blessings!

Edited by Gabrielle A

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I think that everything is a theory until it becomes a reality, then it is no-longer a theory...

UR is Universal Reconciliation. - All human life will be able to reconcile back to God even those who have gone into hell. Their time in hell will give them an opportunity to repent and be reconciled to God. There is no "Lake of Fire" no=one burns. Even the Fallen one's have a chance of being restored back to God...[supposedly]

Is the "Rapture" also part of the Independent Baptist belief?

Blessings!

I believe in the pre tribulation rapture of the church age believers. Revelation 20:11-15 indicates that all nonbelievers in Jesus will be cast into the lake of fire (lava). Hell was made for the devil and the angels that revolted against God but many humans have joined the rebellion and will also be sent to hell as the rich man in Luke 16:19-31.

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The Rapture is not a theory...it is a biblical teaching. God has promised born again believers/the Body of Christ/the Church that He will save them from His wrath, which will come upon all Christ rejecters. This is called the 7 year tribulation period.

There is no specific 7-year tribulation period taught in Scripture. It is a theory imposed on certain texts.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Of course we are delivered from the wrath to come - hell. That text is a straightforward second coming, resurrection text. There is no contextual justification for reading 7-year tribulation there - God's wrath is eternal. But note the reference to God's wrath in the next chapter:
14
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own cou
nt
rymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15
Who b
ot
h killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please n
ot
God, and are co
nt
rary to all men:

16
Forbidding us to speak to the Ge
nt
iles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

That is not 7-year tribulation either.


Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
That says nothing about 7-year trib - only "the hour of temptation." Even in NT times believers suffered tribulation:
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 2 Thes. 1:4




OSAS is not a "theory" either. I think most posters on this board believe in the eternal security of the born again believer.

I have no idea what the UR "theory" is. Would you define this for those who don't know what it is, please?

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I think that everything is a theory until it becomes a reality, then it is no-longer a theory...

UR is Universal Reconciliation. - All human life will be able to reconcile back to God even those who have gone into hell. Their time in hell will give them an opportunity to repent and be reconciled to God. There is no "Lake of Fire" no=one burns. Even the Fallen one's have a chance of being restored back to God...[supposedly]

Is the "Rapture" also part of the Independent Baptist belief?

Blessings!


I doubt anyone on this board believes in universal reconciliation. Most of us here believe in some form of "OSAS", but some believe you can be saved, fall away and live like the world, die in that way, and still be saved because you were saved back then. Others of us believe such a person most likely never was truly saved because salvation is accompanied by fruit. On the pretrib rapture, a lot here believe it, but a good number of us don't because it is not taught in the bible. Those who believe it is must admit that even in their theory it is implicitly taught. Hence this thread.

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Hi Rick!

Some people still think the Trinity and the eternal diety of Christ is a theory too.

Well it is, when you think about it...many Christians base their understanding on the word but not everyone comes to the same conclusion otherwise we would not have the "oneness doctrine." [those who believe that God the Father came down to earth as God the Son, died and rose again. Then came back as God, the Holy Spirit] Bless you!

Hi anime4christ!

some believe you can be saved, fall away and live like the world, die in that way, and still be saved because you were saved back then. Others of us believe such a person most likely never was truly saved because salvation is accompanied by fruit. On the pretrib rapture, a lot here believe it, but a good number of us don't because it is not taught in the bible.


This is what I have understood also... :) there has been a lot of confusion caused by doctrines/theories that have not been tested or measured up against the word of God by believers, just accepted. My hope is that believers read the word for themselves and God will show his truth through the revelation of his Spirit that dwells in us.

Blessings!!! Edited by Gabrielle A

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Theroy is something that cannot be proven, the rapture of the saints when Jesus comes in the air.


1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

At that time those who are in Christ, & having died shall be resurrected, them we who are alive shall be caught up & so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The reason some comes to a different understanding is not that the truth is not in the pages of the Bible, but its because some refuse to accept the truth of the Scriptures, & even others let that old Devil hide God's truths from them. I feel some of both types are present,

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At that time those who are in Christ, & having died shall be resurrected, them we who are alive shall be caught up & so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I haven't seen any posts where that glorious truth is denied. What is rejected as not proved from Scripture is a 7-year tribulation following that rapture/resurrection.

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