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I'm trying to sort out rapture teaching.

If I understand correctly - AD 70 was included in Jesus' Olivet prophecy, but it was primarily concerned with a yet future tribulation, so that NO prophecy relates to the Gospel age of grace we are living in - that is a parenthesis resulting from the Jews rejecting their Messiah. Therefore NO prophetic Scripture is relevant to us - it's all for what happens on earth after the rapture.

The rapture of believers, & the first resurrection, takes place either before the 7 year tribulation, or 3½ year into it, or at the end. In the preferred scenario, raptured believers have a "grandstand view" of the tribulation on earth. Revelation 4 onwards describes the tribulation, the millennium & the NH&NE, & has no relevance to living believers during the Gospel age.

Armageddon takes place at the end of the tribulation, while the Gog/Magog rebellion takes place after Satan is released after the millennium.

The rapture is not the second coming, the second coming takes place at the end of the tribulation when Jesus begins a millennial reign on earth, over a mixed population of the 1/3 surviving & converted Jews & whoever else survives the tribulation. Resurrected believers will be back on earth reigning with Jesus, who will live in Jerusalem.

During the millennium, people will still be mortal & will have children, & will die at a great age. Increasingly that mortal population will comprised unsaved sinners who will be ready to rebel against Jesus & resurrected saints on earth as soon as Satan reappears from the bottomless pit. The rebellion will be cut short by fire from heaven.

The final judgment takes place including those who have died during the millennium.

The NH&NE is brought into being.

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The problem with that is that it is a composite of many Scriptures, both OT & NT, but is not explicitly taught in Scripture.
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My understanding is that Jesus ascended to his heavenly throne at his ascension;
that the Apostolic age ended with the prophesied AD 70 tribulation & destruction, after which there was no geographical earthly focus for the Kingdom of God. (John 4) Jesus then took his power & reigned over all the earth from heaven. (Rev. 11:15) Clearly he is King over all the earth, but while Jerusalem stood, there was a focus for the Kingdom of God on earth.

Satan was bound at the cross & the millennial reign of Jesus & believing souls in heaven (who have enjoyed the first (spiritual) resurrection of souls, aka conversion (John 5:24) & anticipate the bodily resurrection at Jesus second coming. (John 5:28-9) 1,000 years denotes a long but indeterminate time. Peter comments on that. ( 2Pet. 3) We are living through the millennium. Believers, having attained the first spiritual resurrection by faith in Christ, suffer & die during the millennium. (Rev. 20:4.)

Wickedness will increase towards the end, with the release of Satan, but the second coming cuts short the resultant tribulation of believers inflicted by the wicked. (2 Thes. 1)

Then the NH&NE come into being.

Edited by Covenanter
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Often we speak of Jesus' next coming as the 2nd coming, yet at that time He will only come in the air, never setting foot on this earth, and at that time the rapture will take place.

At the start of the millennial will be when He next sets foot on this earth, Them His thousand year reign will begin.

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The OIivet Discourse is Jesus answering more than one question from His disciples. The first portion of the Discourse deals with that which was to occur in 70 A.D. while the second portion deals primarily with things that will happen at an unknown future date.

From the descriptions of things that will occur in the future, it seems to clearly indicate that happening will be obvious and so open that all will know it's occuring. The things mentioned have not yet occured, and they didn't occur in 70 A.D., so they are yet future. While the event will catch most (all?) by surprise, it will be a very open event that no one will miss seeing.

That's my general understanding of the Olivet Discourse.

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I heard a idea that the "rapture" will happen when the seventh angel sounds. It seems plausible at the moment; though I'm not decided about it yet. As I don't really understand how it would work out with the rest of the scriptures. :icon_confused:Some verses which seem to support it below. Then some verses which don't seem to support it.

1Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Thess 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.



1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
Rev 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and [his] left [foot] on the earth,
Rev 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Rev 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.



Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.



One of the verses that doesn't seem to support the idea is.

(Rev 20:4 [KJV])
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [i saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

(Rev 20:5 [KJV])
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

(Rev 20:6 [KJV])
Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Edited by Nathaniel
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The OIivet Discourse is Jesus answering more than one question from His disciples. The first portion of the Discourse deals with that which was to occur in 70 A.D. while the second portion deals primarily with things that will happen at an unknown future date.

From the descriptions of things that will occur in the future, it seems to clearly indicate that happening will be obvious and so open that all will know it's occuring. The things mentioned have not yet occured, and they didn't occur in 70 A.D., so they are yet future. While the event will catch most (all?) by surprise, it will be a very open event that no one will miss seeing.

That's my general understanding of the Olivet Discourse.

That I agree with. The primary prophecy of the destruction of the Temple & Jerusalem is referred to by Paul in Thessalonians, around AD 50.

1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they [have] of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

In AD 50 the temple of God was standing, but would be totally destroyed by the Lord before the generation that rejected their Messiah died out.

There was an active church in Jerusalem, led by James, & preaching the Law & the Prophets. (e.g. Acts 21:20) That church would be removed when the Jerusalem believers saw the Olivet signs.
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We know that the signs Jesus gave in his Olivet prophecy were clear to the Jerusalem Christians, who fled the city 3½ years before the destruction. In that whole prophecy he gives warnings to all of us down the ages, to be living as expecting to give account when he comes for resurrection & judgement.

Some disps see the temple prophecies, also in 2 Thes 2 & Rev. 11 as referring to a rebuilt temple for the "tribulation period" but the is NO specific NT prophecy of a rebuilt temple, nor could there be a valid temple like Ezekiel's, as animal sacrifices are offered.

The prophecies must therefore refer to the existing temple, at the time of the prophecies.

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Looking at Scripture through a "filter" was suggested on another thread, with the implication that we can selected e.g "dispensationalism," or "covenant theology" or some other external hermeneutic to interpret Scripture. I do not like that concept. We need to see what the Scriptures say, particular how Jesus & the Apostles used the OT, to establish Scripture understanding before we interpret.

Throughout Thessalonians, Paul is prophesying specific details of the coming of the Lord Jesus.

He seems to know nothing of a 7-year tribulation, nor of a millennium where resurrected believers live on earth with King Jesus, saved Jews & tribulation survivors. Those interpretations should be understood in the light of specific teaching.

He does teach a present tribulation of believers at the hands of the wicked, & a final tribulation of the wicked at the hands of God, when Jesus returns to vindicate his saints. (2 The 1) Before that "rapture" the temple, together with the man of sin must be destroyed.

Paul therefore teaches that Christ cannot come before the fulfilment of the Olivet prophecy. That was the great unfulfilled prophecy of Jesus, when Jesus himself would be vindicated as his words come true in dreadful detail. Since then Christians must live as faithful believers, expecting at some unknown time to give account to the Lord they serve.

The cataclysmic event of recent days should not be seen as indicators that Jesus really is coming in our present generation. Rather they should be seen as signs that the world is presently living under the judgment of God, who will bring the Gospel age of grace to an end at some unknown moment, without further warning.

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Looking at Scripture through a "filter" was suggested on another thread, with the implication that we can selected e.g "dispensationalism," or "covenant theology" or some other external hermeneutic to interpret Scripture. I do not like that concept. We need to see what the Scriptures say, particular how Jesus & the Apostles used the OT, to establish Scripture understanding before we interpret.

Throughout Thessalonians, Paul is prophesying specific details of the coming of the Lord Jesus.

He seems to know nothing of a 7-year tribulation, nor of a millennium where resurrected believers live on earth with King Jesus, saved Jews & tribulation survivors. Those interpretations should be understood in the light of specific teaching.

He does teach a present tribulation of believers at the hands of the wicked, & a final tribulation of the wicked at the hands of God, when Jesus returns to vindicate his saints. (2 The 1) Before that "rapture" the temple, together with the man of sin must be destroyed.

Paul therefore teaches that Christ cannot come before the fulfilment of the Olivet prophecy. That was the great unfulfilled prophecy of Jesus, when Jesus himself would be vindicated as his words come true in dreadful detail. Since then Christians must live as faithful believers, expecting at some unknown time to give account to the Lord they serve.

The cataclysmic event of recent days should not be seen as indicators that Jesus really is coming in our present generation. Rather they should be seen as signs that the world is presently living under the judgment of God, who will bring the Gospel age of grace to an end at some unknown moment, without further warning.

I totally agree with your first paragraph. We should look to see what Scripture says and allow Scripture to interpret Scripture rather than looking at Scripture through a preconceived view (filter) to see how one can fit the Scripture to that. I've seen problems in this area in various Bible study groups over the years. There are actually some who won't touch upon any area dealing with prophecy, especially ast related to the end-times, unless they have a book, or books, by their favorite prophecy author. Rather than looking to Scripture and studying the Word, they continually refer to their prophecy books. It's really impossible to engage in true Bible study with such.

One problem I have with the imminent Rapture idea is that most say the Rapture couldn't really have happened "until" this or that, yet at the same time they say the Rapture has been imminent since Jesus went to heaven. Many who hold to the imminent Rapture view have or yet do state that the Rapture really couldn't have happened until Israel became a nation again...before the advent of nuclear weapons in abundance...without the Soviet Union...without a strong and growing China...until the Roman Empire was revived (most now say this is the EU)...until the Gospel has been preached to every people group...until the Gospel is available in every language...etc.

There are many things tied up in most imminent Rapture views I've studied which indicates that while they may believe somehow the Rapture has always been imminent, their own views on the matter declare many things had to take place before there could be a Rapture. This is inconsistent yet when I've asked various folks about this they tend to stammer something along the lines of certain things were/are necessary but somehow Jesus could have Raptured us before then anyway...huh?
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One problem I have with the imminent Rapture idea is that most say the Rapture couldn't really have happened "until" this or that, yet at the same time they say the Rapture has been imminent since Jesus went to heaven. Many who hold to the imminent Rapture view have or yet do state that the Rapture really couldn't have happened until Israel became a nation again...before the advent of nuclear weapons in abundance...without the Soviet Union...without a strong and growing China...until the Roman Empire was revived (most now say this is the EU)...until the Gospel has been preached to every people group...until the Gospel is available in every language...etc.


Scripturally there is nothing that must happen prior to the rapture. It could happen at any time, which is why we are told to watch and be ready always for his return. Now we can see things like the restoration of the nation of Israel in scripture, but nothing says that it must happen prior to the rapture. One of the major problems those who do not believe in the rapture have to deal with is why there are so many scriptural exhortations to watch and be ready for the return of Christ. If Christians were to go through the great tribulation and Christ was to appear at the end of it it would be a no brainer. If the anti-christ, the false prophet, the mark of the beast in the hand or head etc. hasn't happened yet then there would be no point watching for Christs return if one believed he was returning at the end of the seven year tribulation.
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Scripturally there is nothing that must happen prior to the rapture. It could happen at any time, which is why we are told to watch and be ready always for his return.

Paul stated that the man of sin & the events of 2 Thes. 2 must take place before the day of Christ. And when he shall come to be glorified in his saints tribulation of the wicked will be total.

2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Now we can see things like the restoration of the nation of Israel in scripture, but nothing says that it must happen prior to the rapture. Where is this prophesied specifically in the NT? Rom. 11 prophesies if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
One of the major problems those who do not believe in the rapture have to deal with is why there are so many scriptural exhortations to watch and be ready for the return of Christ.
Do we not need exhortation to faithfully serve him? If you knew he was coming this Easter Day, would you need to change how you live? At death we appear before him.

If Christians were to go through the great tribulation and Christ was to appear at the end of it it would be a no brainer. If the anti-christ, the false prophet, the mark of the beast in the hand or head etc. hasn't happened yet then there would be no point watching for Christs return if one believed he was returning at the end of the seven year tribulation.
You are running ahead of us, & accepting the disp doctrine of a future "great tribulation" rather than simply reading what Scripture says. Jesus taught the great tribulation in the context of the destruction, & warned Christians to flee Jerusalem & Judea to escape it.

Mat 24:15 ¶ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Is there a holy place on earth? Where should we run?

John & I are saying that we should see what Scripture actually teaches, rather than interpreting through any "filter."

Edited by Covenanter
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These questions stem from some other threads but I would like to concentrate upon this aspect here.

Will there be no Rapture, one Rapture, two Raptures, three Raptures or more? There seems to be several views of this, some I've heard before, some I don't think I have.

Along with how many Raptures there will be, please explain when you believe one or more may take place, or why you think there will be none. Also, who will be Raptured when?


In 1,3,4,and 5 the body of the Saints are redeemed from the earth. In 2 the church age believers both dead and living are raptured.

The Five Phases of the First Resurrection
(1) Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Psalms 68:18 KJV, Ephesians 4:8 KJV
(2) The Holy Spirit and the church age saints are caught up to heaven before the antichrist Is given power in the Christian nations. 2Thessalonians 2:3-12, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 also see John16:7-8 KJV
(3)The mid tribulation catching up will include the two witnesses Revelation11:3,7-14 KJV, the 144,000 sealed Jews from Revelation chapter 7 who where redeemed from the earth. See Revelation 14:1-4, and the redeemed dead saints from the first half of the Tribulation. See Revelation 15:1-4KJV
(4) The dead saints from the last half of the tribulation are redeemed from the earth after the tribulation. Revelation 20:4KJV
(5) The dead saints from the Kingdom age will be judged at the great white throne judgment along with the second resurrection sinners. Revelation 20:11-15KJV
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Could you post the verses which go with each of these so I can look into it more closely?

The idea of multiple "raptures" is a concept imposed on Scripture by faulty hermeneutics. When we examine the cited Scriptures, we need to consider the context & the teaching of Jesus & the Apostles about the last day, resurrection, judgment & eternity.

RS has acknowledged that Paul & co. were concerned with the present Gospel age, & therefore said little or nothing about tribulation/rapture/millennium, etc. We look in vain for clear teaching in support of the "rapture" concept as taught.

Can we begin by considering ONE final resurrection & judgment when Jesus returns, so that all the different supposed raptures are one resurrection, followed by the NH&NE.

It comes down to whether the OT prophecies are essentially fulfilled in & by Jesus, or have a fulfillment that Jesus & his Apostles (speaking & writing under Holy Spirit inspiration) never mentioned. Edited by Covenanter
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1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; —2 Timothy 4:1 KJV

2 Timothy 4:1 tells us that there will be judgments at Jesus’ appearing (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18), and at His kingdom that starts at the last trumpet judgment, and when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ (Revelation 11:15), because the Devil is defeated in war in heaven and is cast to the earth. (Revelation 12:7-12)


23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
—Romans 8:22–23 KJV

Is your head spinning because you never heard about two raptures or redemptions?
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
—Ephesians 4:8 KJV

When Jesus died on the cross for our sins, He was buried. He then went to paradise, called the bosom of Abraham, which was in the bowels of the earth next to hell. Lazarus, the poor beggar, went to paradise when he died, described in Luke 16:19–31. When Jesus went to heaven after His resurrection, He took captivity captive and gave gifts unto men. This was the first phase of the first resurrection and redemption. Jesus took all the Old Testament saints from paradise to heaven to be rewarded. Those Old Testament saints were saved by faith and are part of the first resurrection!

Revelation 20:4–6 KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the wit- ness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The saints who die during the second half of the tribulation period will not worship the Antichrist or his image. They are also part of the first resurrection. These are the first four phases of the first resurrection.

116 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING

I believe there will be a fifth phase of the first resurrection after the thousand-year reign of Christ called the kingdom age.

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How Many Raptures Will There Be?






Featured Date:

2012-01-28

Link:

1903c

Body:


Search the Scriptures Daily Program #1903c:
Gary: You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily , a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, Dave and Tom continue their weekly in-depth study of the Doctrine of Salvation. Please stay with us.
CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH
Now, Contending for the Faith. In this regular feature, Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call . Here’s this week’s question: “Dear Tom and Dave, I used to think that there were only two different views related to the Rapture of the church: the Pre-tribulation and Post-tribulation beliefs. Now I’ve learned that some teach a Pre-wrath Rapture, a Partial Rapture, and no Rapture. This is starting to get pretty confusing. Is the Bible not clear on this subject?”
Tom: Dave, the issue of the Rapture—this isn’t an issue which has to do with fellowship, I don’t believe. On the other hand, there are some pretty aggressive views out there about this.
Dave: Yeah. We don’t break fellowship with people over this, but sometimes it could be difficult to have consistent fellowship with someone who is pushing a contradictory view and it is causing division. They are becoming aggressive and unreasonable…I’m trying to think of another word…unpleasant about it. It certainly does not involve our salvation. The gospel is very clearly stated how that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, was buried, rose again the third day, according to the Scriptures—you believe that, you are saved, and it has nothing to do with the Rapture.
On the other hand, it is an important teaching of the Bible, and we must stand firm on everything the Bible teaches. Is it clear? I think it’s quite clear! Jesus, in John 14, said, “I am going to go away and prepare a place for you, and if I go away I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there you may be also.” And He told them He was going to His Father’s house of many mansions, and that would be where He would be preparing a place from them, okay? So that certainly sounds as though He is going to take His own.
Tom: Now, the term, Rapture, you don’t find it in the Bible.
Dave: Yeah, you do, in the Latin.
Tom: But we don’t read the Latin Vulgate.
Dave: It simply means an ecstatic catching away. But look, Jesus said, “I am going to come, take you to my Father’s house,” okay? Paul, in 1 Thessalonians, chapter 4, beginning at verse 13—and we can’t go into all the verses, but—well, he says, “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are asleep, [that means they died)] that ye sorrow not, even as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so those who sleep in Jesus [those who have died in faith in Christ] God will bring with him.” They must be in heaven—“absent from the body, present with the Lord, which is far better.” He’s going to bring the souls and spirits with Him. “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Tom: So, this “caught up”—that’s the meaning of the term “Rapture.”
Dave: Right. That’s where you have the Latin term, Raptus Repere. I don’t remember which is the infinitive and which is the verb and so forth, and so forth, and the Bible clearly teaches this. This is the hope—“looking for the blessed hope, the glorious appearing of the great God, our savior Jesus Christ.”
Tom: Dave, how is this split up then—pre-wrath, partial Rapture?
Dave: Well, people try to find some basis. Some people say, “Well, it’s going to be at the end of the Great Tribulation”—that’s Post-trib. But Jesus said, “As it was in the days of Noah, the days of Lot. They are buying, selling, building, planting, partying, and marrying. That’s how it will be in the day when the Son of Man appears,” okay? That doesn’t sound like the end of the Great Tribulation.
Furthermore, Matthew:24:44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh., Jesus said, “At such an hour as you think not, the Son of man cometh.” Well, we know he is coming at the end of the Great Tribulation because He comes in the midst of Armageddon to rescue Israel and to stop the destruction: “Except those days be shortened, no flesh would survive.”
But if He’s coming also at a time when no one would expect Him, that must be something else. That could only be before the Great Tribulation, a time of peace, prosperity, and not expecting Him: “when you think not.”
Now, the very fact that the early church expected Him, was looking for Him: “unto them that look for him shall he appear. You turn to God from idols to serve the living and true God, wait for his Son from heaven,” and so forth. The very fact that the Bible ends “Even so, come, Lord Jesus”—if He can’t come until after Antichrist has been revealed (that’s the pre-wrath position—that when the Antichrist has been revealed, then God is going to pour out His wrath; we’ve got to face the Antichrist, and then God will take us). If He can’t come until after the Antichrist or after the Great Tribulation or until some certain event happens, then we’ve lost imminency, and you couldn’t say that He could come at any moment. Then, it wouldn’t be right for us to say, “Come Lord Jesus!” That’s quite simple. So, people have come up with various views.
Tom: Dave, last one—we’ve got about a minute. Partial Rapture—must be based on works, I guess.
Dave: Well, if you’re not living for Jesus—I guess they would get that from Hebrews:9:27-28 [27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
: “Unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” However, Tom, there is no partial taking of…well, look, my parents are with the Lord, I believe; the Apostle Paul is with the Lord. Millions of Christians have died, they are absent from the body, present with the Lord. Never does it say some of them didn’t make it because they weren’t living a good enough life. If that didn’t happen to them when they died, then it’s not going to happen to those of us who are alive. Do we have to live a better life than they did in order to meet those who are already in heaven—who were all taken upon death? All will be taken at the Rapture. There is no basis for a Partial Rapture in the Bible.

http://www.thebereancall.org/content/how-many-raptures-will-there-be
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RS has acknowledged that Paul & co. were concerned with the present Gospel age, & therefore said little or nothing about tribulation/rapture/millennium, etc. We look in vain for clear teaching in support of the "rapture" concept as taught.



Actually, what I stated was that the writers of the New Testament didn't spend a lot of time focusing on the Millennial kingdom because it is Jewish in nature, as in the 300,000 square miles of ground that was promised to Abraham's seed. This isn't to say that it's not mentioned though, it is. The Tribulation/Rapture/Second Coming are very important subjects and are mentioned often in the New Testament. Matthew 24-25, I Thess 4, I Cor. 15, Revelation, etc

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