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These questions stem from some other threads but I would like to concentrate upon this aspect here.

Will there be no Rapture, one Rapture, two Raptures, three Raptures or more? There seems to be several views of this, some I've heard before, some I don't think I have.

Along with how many Raptures there will be, please explain when you believe one or more may take place, or why you think there will be none. Also, who will be Raptured when?

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The concept of the rapture appears to be a recent invention. Scripture support is from the resurrection texts. (1 Thes. 4)

If we start with Jesus' teaching we find 2 resurrections in John 5.

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The first resurrection is conversion - salvation - when we become spiritually alive, & have eternal life.

The second resurrection takes place at an hour when ALL come forth, for the resurrection of life or the resurrection of damnation.

No millennium, no rapture/tribulation scenario. When Jesus returns it's resurrection to life or damnation.

In his kingdom parables we see the same. e.g. the wheat/tares.

Mat. 13:40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

In this case, the tares are gathered first, so comparing John with Matthew, there can be NO significant time interval between the resurrection of the righteous & the wicked.

It's the same in 1 Thes, 2 Thes. 1, & 2 Peter.

2 Thes. 1: 4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Occam's razor applies - keep it simple. Scripture does not require a complex disp interpretation. No "interpretation" is necessary. Accept what the Lord & his Apostles say.

Edited by Covenanter
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1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There will be a rapture, a time when all of God's children will be taken off this earth, it will happen right before the tribulations, at that time the Holy Spirit will be taken off of this world, and the Wicked One will be revealed.It is the 1st resurrection.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

There is more than one stage for the rapture of the saved people, I spoke of only the 1st portion of it. That will also be the 1st resurrection.

When that takes place all unsaved people will be left on this earth, all that have died lost will stay in their graves, and they will not be resurrected until right come to the end, right before the 'Great White Throne Judgment.'

Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years


Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So the Bible can truly say, 'Blessed are they who have a part in the 1st resurrection, the rapture, why blessed? They will not go through the tribulations, 1st 3&1/2 years nor the great tribulation last 3&1/2 years, they will be with the Lord during that time.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Some read theses verses as well as others, and get confused, thinking both resurrections take place at the same time, they do not, which is clear form verses such as Revelation 20:6.

Some ever deny the rapture becasue that word in not in the Bible. Yet that word describes what will take place at the 1st resurrection.

Lu 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Lu 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Lu 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

In that day there will be households where the wife will be taken, the lost husband left behind. If could well be that a large plane is flying though the sky, the pilot is saved, the co-pilot is lost, the pilot is taken, the co-pilot is left behind. Of course that is what the above verses is referring to.

I forget just what verse in the New Testament, some were calming that the resurrection, rapture, had already take place. It has not, but it could take pace at any moment. There is nothing that has to take place for the rapture to happen, the rapture is imminent, could happen any day, even today, or tomorrow, or maybe Sunday morning as our church services starts.

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1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There will be a rapture, a time when all of God's children will be taken off this earth, it will happen right before the tribulations, at that time the Holy Spirit will be taken off of this world, and the Wicked One will be revealed.It is the 1st resurrection.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

There is more than one stage for the rapture of the saved people, I spoke of only the 1st portion of it. That will also be the 1st resurrection.

When that takes place all unsaved people will be left on this earth, all that have died lost will stay in their graves, and they will not be resurrected until right come to the end, right before the 'Great White Throne Judgment.'

Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years


Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So the Bible can truly say, 'Blessed are they who have a part in the 1st resurrection, the rapture, why blessed? They will not go through the tribulations, 1st 3&1/2 years nor the great tribulation last 3&1/2 years, they will be with the Lord during that time.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Some read theses verses as well as others, and get confused, thinking both resurrections take place at the same time, they do not, which is clear form verses such as Revelation 20:6.

Some ever deny the rapture becasue that word in not in the Bible. Yet that word describes what will take place at the 1st resurrection.

Lu 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Lu 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Lu 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

In that day there will be households where the wife will be taken, the lost husband left behind. If could well be that a large plane is flying though the sky, the pilot is saved, the co-pilot is lost, the pilot is taken, the co-pilot is left behind. Of course that is what the above verses is referring to.

I forget just what verse in the New Testament, some were calming that the resurrection, rapture, had already take place. It has not, but it could take pace at any moment. There is nothing that has to take place for the rapture to happen, the rapture is imminent, could happen any day, even today, or tomorrow, or maybe Sunday morning as our church services starts.


An interesting and novel theory, but how do you square that with the words of the Lord himself?

The saints will be raised on the last day.


Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.


But the judgment will also be on the last day

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It seems you have adopted man made theories. Edited by Invicta
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Yes, and Jesus will, the rapture will be the last day of having Jesus' Churches and for the Holy Spirit abiding as it now does. At that moment the church age will come to an end. Those left behind will face a time of suffering like never before has been seen on this earth. And he will not allow His brothers and sisters to go though it, He has promised to take them out before it begins.


Just prior to the ending of this world the resurrection of the unsaved will take place. Picture this.

Re 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Jesus setting on the Great White Throne, before him is all the unsaved waiting to be judged, earth and the heaven fled away from him, over the shoulders of the lost they may get a glimpse of the earth, it holds everything they lived for, it holds all of their treasures, but its destroyed.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Jesus finds no place for them, they are them judged according to their works them cast into the lake of fire.

Those with Christ shall them live that abundant life in heaven with God and His Son Jesus, which will never have and ending.

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These questions stem from some other threads but I would like to concentrate upon this aspect here.

Will there be no Rapture, one Rapture, two Raptures, three Raptures or more? There seems to be several views of this, some I've heard before, some I don't think I have.

Along with how many Raptures there will be, please explain when you believe one or more may take place, or why you think there will be none. Also, who will be Raptured when?


There will be a rapture of the church before the tribulation and a rapture of the tribulation saints before the Second Coming. The 144,000 possibly will be taken out at the half way of the point of the Tribulation along with the two witnesses after they are killed. If you lump it all together (the Jew, Gentile and church of God) being raptured out at the end of the tribulatin then you fall into all kinds of doctrinal contradictions especially in soteriology.
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There will be a rapture of the church before the tribulation and a rapture of the tribulation saints before the Second Coming. The 144,000 possibly will be taken out at the half way of the point of the Tribulation along with the two witnesses after they are killed. If you lump it all together (the Jew, Gentile and church of God) being raptured out at the end of the tribulatin then you fall into all kinds of doctrinal contradictions especially in soteriology.

Could you post the verses which go with each of these so I can look into it more closely?
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There is no Rapture in Scripture, not in the sense of what is commonly referred to today. For, the Rapture and the Second Coming are one event. There are two resurrections - one at the beginning of the thousand year reign, of the killed Tribulation saints, and then one at the end of the thousand years, of all other believers.

(Revelation 20:1-6 KJV) - "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. {2} And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, {3} And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. {4} And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Hence...

1. Seven-year Tribulation period.
2. Christ returns, defeats the enemies who were coming against Jerusalem (see Revelation 19).
3. Rapture of all living saints, resurrection of all killed throughout the Tribulation (remember: only two resurrections! One at end of the Tribulation/beginning of the Millenium, one at the end of the Millenium! Hence...one Rapture, at the return, as a resurrection in 1 Thessalonians [what is...4:16-17?] is present).
4. Millenium, period of peace, Christ rules on earth.
5. Satan gathers Gog and Magog, some of his buddies (Ezekiel 38), and attacks Jerusalem.
6. They are utterly consumed, satan is cast into the lake of fire, new heavens and new earth.

See the rest of Revelation, and Revelation 19.
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14; Romans 5:8.

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But if there is no rapture of the saints before the tribulation, which is the Day of God's Wrath, then we'd be living through that wrath. And the Bible says we are not appointed unto wrath...?

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But if there is no rapture of the saints before the tribulation, which is the Day of God's Wrath, then we'd be living through that wrath. And the Bible says we are not appointed unto wrath...?

Is that speaking to tribulation wrath or the ultimate wrath of God in casting all who rejected Christ into hell/lake of fire?
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Is that speaking to tribulation wrath or the ultimate wrath of God in casting all who rejected Christ into hell/lake of fire?


My answer is Tribulation wrath, if all the saved living at that time when the tribulations start, has to face the tribulation wrath, that is not a blessed hope, But of course they will not face it, Christ has not appointed the saved to wrath.
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My answer is Tribulation wrath, if all the saved living at that time when the tribulations start, has to face the tribulation wrath, that is not a blessed hope, But of course they will not face it, Christ has not appointed the saved to wrath.

Please give Scripture to support that teaching. Edited by Covenanter
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But if there is no rapture of the saints before the tribulation, which is the Day of God's Wrath, then we'd be living through that wrath. And the Bible says we are not appointed unto wrath...?


There is, I agree, no way that believers will suffer the wrath of God. However, Jesus warned us, 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. (John 16)

1Th 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Wrath is final punishment of the wicked. There is no way believers will suffer wrath - tribulation - yes; wrath - never.

Believers suffer tribulation at the hands of the wicked. The wicked suffer wrath-tribulation in hell.

2 Thes. 1:6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
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Is that speaking to tribulation wrath or the ultimate wrath of God in casting all who rejected Christ into hell/lake of fire?

Precisely. The wrath poured out during the Tribulation will be nothing, and I do mean nothing, compared to the holy wrath that shall be poured out on God's enemies during all of eternity, in Hell. Nothing, no, nothing at all. Let us look at the context.

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 KJV) - "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. {2} For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. {3} For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. {4} But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. {5} Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. {6} Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. {7} For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. {8} But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. {9} For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, {10} Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. {11} Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."

There is simply no evidence to support a Pre or Mid-Trib Rapture. As, if this is the first resurrection (and it is), well...

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV) - "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
God bless,
Crushmaster.
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No, the tribulations, 1st 3 & 1/2 years, and the great tribulations, the 2nd 3 & 1/2 years, will not be the same as the lake of fire, yet during that day our Lord will pour His wrath out upon this earth, and it will not be a walk through the park for them on earth during those days. A sample of what will be taking place.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Re 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
Re 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
Re 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; Re 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
Re 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Re 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!


And again, keep in mind, this is during the tribulations, this is not part of the eternal punishment for the unsaved.

Edited by Jerry80871852
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