Musical Associations and CCM Adaptation

[JerryNumbers]

I wonder, many of our old hymns that are sung in churches all across the country, those singing them, how many knows one thing about the writer?

For instants, Albert E. Brumley, writer of "I'll Fly Away, was of the church of Christ, I found this out a couple of weeks ago. I've heard this old hymn sang in many different Baptist Churches and its one that I always enjoyed.

Biographical Sketch On The Life Of Albert E. Brumley, at the bottom of the page shows the church he attended.


And it seems most that have written hymns, will also write many other types of songs of which I would not care to even listen to.

[John81]

Speaking for myself, I have just a couple of main ways of deciding if Christian music is good or bad. Not that there is anything foolproof about these points and I couldn't definitively say this is the only way to make a determination. I could not definitively "prove" the rightness or wrongness of these points from scripture beyond certain general principles that indicate a general direction. Even though I can't irrefutably "prove" it I still feel strongly that these things matter quite a bit.

In no particular order:

1 does the music tend to use unnatural, out of balance and conflicting rhythms, such as syncopated rhythms, polyrhythms, etc?. What we would generally describe as music with "a beat" to it, or music with some other anti-harmonious aspect that we automatically recognize even if we can't precisely define it .
2 Is the song sung in a breathy or otherwise sensual style?
3 Are the words edifying and biblically accurate or perhaps shallow and maybe even flat wrong?
4 What other songs has the song writer written, do those songs usually pass or fail on the previous three questions?

The first three are what I basically judge the strict "good or bad" of the music on while giving consideration to the fourth.

I have one more point that determines if I will use the song even if it is a "pass" strictly speaking. What generally speaking is the doctrine of the song writer like? I am more particular about this if the writer is still living/speaking/writing more songs, has a "following" that he/she is directly influencing etc. My reasoning behind this is a dead song writer is a closed case. You can know what their influence is for the most part, you know they aren't going to be spreading any more error beyond what they have already written. A living writer is still a open question. You don't know what else they might write or how far they might go, you don't know how much they might influence people, etc. Now none of this affects a already written song one way or another from a strict "good or bad" point of view, but it does affect the wisdom or lack thereof in using the song, not so much because of what the song actually is, but because of its associations. Songs otherwise passing but failing in this category could conceivably become acceptable given enough time since the problem isn't so much with the song per se as with it's associations.

I can see how your points would work for you personally, but not in a corporate manner.

As to point one, I know of exceeingly few who would have a clue about that. Myself, I don't notice any of that sort unless there is an actual beat in the song put forth by a drum. Also, not everyone perceives beats the same or reacts the same. Some who have worked in this area with a mix of blacks and whites in a church have noted that blacks and whites (in America) tend to react to different beats. One has described it as one group being moved by the 1st and 3rd beat while the other is most moved by the 2nd and 4th beat.

Point 2, what is or isn't "breathy" or sensual? What one considers to be one or both of these, others do not. Sometimes it's a matter of perception, sometimes simply a matter of how one naturally sings, etc. This falls into the overall category of different styles of singing that some of us like and some don't. Some find horrid while some find edifying.

3. This is the key factor I look to. Are the lyrics biblically sound? That said, I will listen to Amazing Grace accompanied by a piano but I've also heard that song accompanied by a hard rock band and I would not want to hear that song again if that's the only way I could hear it.

4. Most people don't know who wrote the songs they are singing. Most of the songs we sing we don't know the author, their beliefs, etc. Most on this board would have differences with Wesley, Luther and others. Are we endorsing the Methodist practice of infant baptism if we sing a song Wesley wrote? Most people sing songs in church as a matter of worship, or some out of duty, and are not thinking of who wrote the song, what was their doctrinal position, etc.

There are songs you and I would agree upon. Likely there are songs you would like that I wouldn't and I would like and you wouldn't. While one might be edified by a song, another may not. As some have pointed out, this issue wont' be resolved because there are too many variables and they are intertwined with preference and other factors. Are we going to hold the songs we sing to higher standards than we hold our pastors or ourselves or our churches? Are we going to condemn those who hold the same fundamental stands as we do simply because they sing songs we don't agree with?

[John81]

I wonder, many of our old hymns that are sung in churches all across the country, those singing them, how many knows one thing about the writer?

For instants, Albert E. Brumley, writer of "I'll Fly Away, was of the church of Christ, I found this out a couple of weeks ago. I've heard this old hymn sang in many different Baptist Churches and its one that I always enjoyed.

Biographical Sketch On The Life Of Albert E. Brumley, at the bottom of the page shows the church he attended.


And it seems most that have written hymns, will also write many other types of songs of which I would not care to even listen to.

This is what I've been finding as I look more into the matter. Many hymns were written by those who held to doctrines we don't agree with. Many wrote secular songs and some odd hymns as well.

[Seth Doty]

Are we going to condemn those who hold the same fundamental stands as we do simply because they sing songs we don't agree with?

Well some of us will certainly criticize it from time to time anyway. Why? because we feel strongly that it is important and not in Gods will. I grew up in a IFB church that used music a lot like what is used at Lancaster, no doubt many people here would know of the pastor as he has something of a "name". I left that church even though it had it's good points because I had a strong conviction that the church was wrong on two main issues, one being music, and the other being a large number of lies coming from the pulpit disguised as illustrations. I have no intention of being accepting of such things. Now is mild CCM music the single biggest fish in the pond? No. Are there people that love the Lord that take a unwise and unsafe position on music? Yes. Am I going to totally cut such people off? No. Am I going to keep such individuals, churches, and colleges at arms length metaphorically speaking? Yes. Edited March 31, 2011 by Seth-Doty

[DennisD]

Well some of us will certainly criticize it from time to time anyway. Why? because we feel strongly that it is important and not in Gods will. I grew up in a IFB church that used music a lot like what is used at Lancaster, no doubt many people here would know of the pastor as he has something of a "name". I left that church even though it had it's good points because I had a strong conviction that the church was wrong on two main issues, one being music, and the other being a large number of lies coming from the pulpit disguised as illustrations. I have no intention of being accepting of such things. Now is mild CCM music the single biggest fish in the pond? No. Are there people that love the Lord that take a unwise and unsafe position on music? Yes. Am I going to totally cut such people off? No. Am I going to keep such individuals, churches, and colleges at arms length metaphorically speaking? Yes.

Good post Seth.

[Annie]

Well some of us will certainly criticize it from time to time anyway. Why? because we feel strongly that it is important and not in Gods will. I grew up in a IFB church that used music a lot like what is used at Lancaster, no doubt many people here would know of the pastor as he has something of a "name". I left that church even though it had it's good points because I had a strong conviction that the church was wrong on two main issues, one being music, and the other being a large number of lies coming from the pulpit disguised as illustrations. I have no intention of being accepting of such things. Now is mild CCM music the single biggest fish in the pond? No. Are there people that love the Lord that take a unwise and unsafe position on music? Yes. Am I going to totally cut such people off? No. Am I going to keep such individuals, churches, and colleges at arms length metaphorically speaking? Yes.

Good post. It sums up my opinions on this topic as well.

[JerryNumbers]

John, Have you ever been outside, and hear the beat of music, yet not be able to tell where its coming from. It gets louder and louder, finally a car passes by with the windows rolled up filled with young people, them you know where its coming from. I hear them quite often, I believe I hear some of them 3 to 4 miles off, even with their windows up.

Many times the beat does not come from a drum. It comes from a bass guitar, Bass violin, something like that. And most worldly music has it in there.

[Pastorj]

Jerry,

Everyone would agree that that type of music is awful.

John - I agree with you 100%. ACDC sang Amazing Grace at a concert in the 80's. I still love and sing the song.

[Invicta]

Jerry,

Everyone would agree that that type of music is awful.

John - I agree with you 100%. ACDC sang Amazing Grace at a concert in the 80's. I still love and sing the song.

ACDC? That means bisexual, doesn't it?

[JerryNumbers]

Jerry,

Everyone would agree that that type of music is awful.

John - I agree with you 100%. ACDC sang Amazing Grace at a concert in the 80's. I still love and sing the song.

I was making a poor attempt to explain the beat that is in worldly music, being as I am not musically inclined, educated, I probably did a very poor job. And of course much of the CCM has that beat installed.

[HappyChristian]

ACDC? That means bisexual, doesn't it?

It can. But what he referenced is actually a rock group here in America, from the '80's.

[John81]

It can. But what he referenced is actually a rock group here in America, from the '80's.

AC/DC is an Australian band that formed in the 70s and really hit popularity in America with the release of their Back In Black album in July 1980. Before I knew any better I wore out three 8-tracks of that album.