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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
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      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Church of Christ

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DennisD
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

CHURCH OF CHRIST
[Comments in brackets by Pastor David Warner - Faithful Baptist Church Omak, WA]

In a book entitled ‘Where The Saints Meet’, Mac Lynn states that the total number of churches of Christ in the United States and her territories is about 13,410 with a total membership of 1,277,004.

They believe that they are the only true Christian church and that they can trace their roots back to that first church in Jerusalem (sounds just like we independent Baptists…sort of).

The Church of Christ claims to reserve for itself the only scriptural name for a New Testament church, although the term "church of Christ" is found nowhere in the Bible.

“We are undenominational and have no central headquarters or president. The head of the church is none other than Jesus Christ himself. Each congregation of the churches of Christ is autonomous, and it is the Word of God that unites us into One Faith. We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and his holy Apostles, and not the teachings of man. We are Christians only!” (Church-of-Christ.org) [not a bad statement at all]

Let's look at the three predominant CHOCD groups. The first group, most commonly known as the "One Cup Brethren" has no musical instruments in their worship service and one single shared cup for communion. The second group known as the "Cups Brethren" has no musical instruments but has multiple cups for their communion service. Then the third group known as the "Instrumental Brethren" has multiple cups and musical instruments. The "One Cup" branch commonly refers to the "Cups Brethren" as the "Digressive CHOC" and calls the "Musical Instrument Brethren" the "Liberal CHOC". Then lastly (as if this wasn't confusing enough) we have a branch of the CHOCD that has actually changed it's name to the International CHOC. The other three branches have branded this group (sociologically and theologically) to be a full blown cult! [i wonder how many branches of independent Baptists there are? Close vs closed communion; soulwinning; training own pastors; Bride of Christ; no drums/tapes; non-registered; unaffiliated; no-Boards; women and pants; etc.!]

[They are all independent organizations and have no ‘official’ belief dogma; their ‘statement of faith’ is usually stated as such:]
“We are often asked for our statement of faith. The church of Christ is a non-denominational body which has no creed or doctrine other than the Bible and, therefore, has no statement of faith other than the Bible.”

The Church of Christ’s has 3 main theological heresies: Baptismal Regeneration; no musical instruments in worship; and rejection of the present day ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is important to note that not every Church of Christ church will necessarily believe the same on these 3 issues.

“The purpose of the ordinance is for the acquisition of pardon. At baptism, one enters a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ and becomes a part of the Lord's spiritual body, called the church. This is the same realm known as the kingdom of God, which is entered by the "new birth" process. Water immersion is the "one baptism", commanded by Jesus to be administered by us, to all people, as instructed in the great commission, and continues to the end of time.” (Grandby Church of Christ)

“The Bible teaches that sinners are saved by grace through faith, which includes belief in Christ, repentance, confession, and baptism” (Gonzalez Church of Christ)

The Church of Christ believes in a general resurrection and judgment for all people, both saved and lost at the same time. This perversion of truth is known as A-Millennialism (No Millennium).

[They have a salvation that is brought about through the waters of baptism!]
“You should know that by baptism: You are saved from sins… You have remission of sins… Sins are washed away by the blood of Christ… You put on Christ and become a child of God… You are born again, a new creature.”
(Church-of-Christ.org)

Worship in churches of Christ is very simple. It tends toward participation as opposed to one being a spectator. Christians meet to sing a cappella, as is authorized by the nine verses in the New Testament that discuss the music the early Christians practiced. The Lord’s supper is observed upon the first day of every week, just as was done in the first century.” (Borden Church of Christ)

[What is interesting is how similar they are to independent Baptists (and yet oh so different): Many COC groups believe
1) they are the only true church(es); 2) they came directly from Jerusalem; 3) the Bible is the sole authority and is preserved and inerrant; 4) the sign gifts passed away at the end of the 1st century; 5) music needs to be very conservative.]

Edited by DennisD
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We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and his holy Apostles, and not the teachings of man.


Which teaching is that...
-has no musical instruments allowed.
-the one that allows musical instruments.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I'm not sure what the actual purpose of this thread is so I'll just share my limited experience with the CoC.

About the mid-90s while I was taking some university classes and couple friends and I looked for a nearby church to attend. We had limited access to transportation, as well as limited funds, so we needed a church that was fairly close. Most of the professing Christians on campus that attended a local church went to the Assemblies of God church, which was very close. My friends and I visited but with the loud music, and way too much of it, and the short and rather watered down and somewhat charismatic preaching, followed by more loud music and singing wasn't something we could stand.

To make a long story shorter, among the churches we visited was a CoC, none of us knew anything about them. It was a small church with a small congregation and an elderly preacher. The preaching we heard was biblically sound and geared towards how we should apply it in our lives. When we sang hymns, a capella, the preacher would ask differents ones of us in the congregation what hymn we would like to sing. This pastor also held a men's Bible study that was geared towards making us be solid men of God.

We attended there about a year or so and we each moved on after our classes were finished. I can't speak for anything else regarding the CoC, but that one experience I had was a positive one.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist



Which teaching is that...
-has no musical instruments allowed.
-the one that allows musical instruments.

I'm glad you posted that. It reminded me I was wondering how having no instruments is a heresy?
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I'm not sure what the actual purpose of this thread is so I'll just share my limited experience with the CoC.


No specific purpose except discussion, I don't know much about the Church of Christ.

This coming from the guy that randomly puts up Episcopalian threads :frog: :clapping:
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No specific purpose except discussion, I don't know much about the Church of Christ.

This coming from the guy that randomly puts up Episcopalian threads :frog::clapping:

I'm familiar with the Episcopal church and it's probably clear in those threads I'm attempting to warn others of their false teachings and yoking with wickedness. :bible:

I woudl aprpeciate a general discussion of the CoC since, as I said, other than my limited personal experience with one CoC church and preacher, I know very little about the CoC.

Good on ya mate for startin' this thread! :thumb:
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I'm familiar with the Episcopal church and it's probably clear in those threads I'm attempting to warn others of their false teachings and yoking with wickedness. :bible:

I woudl aprpeciate a general discussion of the CoC since, as I said, other than my limited personal experience with one CoC church and preacher, I know very little about the CoC.

Good on ya mate for startin' this thread! :thumb:


The CoC in my area believe you must be baptized in order to receive salvation. I'm pretty sure they also believe you can lose your salvation.

It's so funny that you mention Episcopalians, as the ones I'm familiar have a lot more in common with IFB than the CoC. Just goes to show that these denominational names are just that and you never know what you are really getting.
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No specific purpose except discussion, I don't know much about the Church of Christ.

This coming from the guy that randomly puts up Episcopalian threads :frog::clapping:


I am glad that you posted this thread. It should make for some interresting discussions. There are some things in the article which I would take issue with and clarify but I am still glad you posted it.
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I'm familiar with the Episcopal church and it's probably clear in those threads I'm attempting to warn others of their false teachings and yoking with wickedness. :bible:

I woudl aprpeciate a general discussion of the CoC since, as I said, other than my limited personal experience with one CoC church and preacher, I know very little about the CoC.

Good on ya mate for startin' this thread! :thumb:



If you would like to know anything specific, please feel free to ask John. I would be glad to answer to the best of my ability.
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They didn't use toliets either but I bet I can find one of those in your church!


Talking about changing the subject. If you would like to have a discussion on the subject of mechanical instruments; if you would like to know why we do not use them, I would be glad to give you further information.

By the way, toilets have nothing to do with worship....mechanical instruments when used does relate to worship.
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Not changing the subject, just having a little fun with the absurdity of your logic.

I know why you don't have insturments: because they aren't mentoned in the NT. Which, neither are pews, podiums, baptistries, hymnals . . . or even Bibles.
. Edited by mattd
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist


The CoC in my area believe you must be baptized in order to receive salvation. I'm pretty sure they also believe you can lose your salvation.

It's so funny that you mention Episcopalians, as the ones I'm familiar have a lot more in common with IFB than the CoC. Just goes to show that these denominational names are just that and you never know what you are really getting.

The Episcopal church is a denomination which teaches infant baptism, the acceptance of women and homosexual priests and bishops and other matters that one can look into which are unbiblical. Any church carrying the Episcopal name is yoked with their denomination.

Beyond that, this particular thread is regarding the Church of Christ, which I'm looking forward to learning more about. There are other threads on the false teachings of the Episcopal church and the wickedness they are yoked with.
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With regards to musical instruments...many Baptist churches, as well as other churches, didn't allow musical instruments early on and for many years beyond that.

One of the complaints the conservative churches in England had when Moody toured their land was his use of an organ that he brought with him for Sankey to play.

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Not changing the subject, just having a little fun with the absurdity of your logic.

I know why you don't have insturments: because they aren't mentoned in the NT. Which, neither are pews, podiums, baptistries, hymnals . . . or even Bibles.
.


No absurdity at all. None of the things which you list change worship to God at all. Again, mechanical instruments do. The Bible does not authorize them. We are commanded to sing and that is all that we should do. I have often wandered why we think that God doesn't know what He wants and what He doesn't. If He tells us what He wants, should we not simply give Him that and leave other things off?

By the way, Ez.ra stood in a pulpit in Nehemiah 8:4. That doesn't say podium but pulpit/podium....same thing. Of course that was not in the 1st century church either....
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With regards to musical instruments...many Baptist churches, as well as other churches, didn't allow musical instruments early on and for many years beyond that.

One of the complaints the conservative churches in England had when Moody toured their land was his use of an organ that he brought with him for Sankey to play.


The Catholics added instruments...around 1000 AD, I believe it was.
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With regards to musical instruments...many Baptist churches, as well as other churches, didn't allow musical instruments early on and for many years beyond that.

One of the complaints the conservative churches in England had when Moody toured their land was his use of an organ that he brought with him for Sankey to play.


Many believers, when they were exiled from England in Netherlands, before about 1640, did not allow any bible versions, The preacher had to read and traanslate directly from the original languages as he spoke. They did not allow instruments, either. In the Brethren breaking of bread services, they did not allow instruments but did in their Gospel preaching services.
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The Episcopal church is a denomination which teaches infant baptism, the acceptance of women and homosexual priests and bishops and other matters that one can look into which are unbiblical. Any church carrying the Episcopal name is yoked with their denomination.

Beyond that, this particular thread is regarding the Church of Christ, which I'm looking forward to learning more about. There are other threads on the false teachings of the Episcopal church and the wickedness they are yoked with.


I'm by no means an expert, but I think it is only a small handful of Episcopals that have women or homosexual priests/bishops. The ones I know are sound, aside from the infant baptisim or course.
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No absurdity at all. None of the things which you list change worship to God at all. Again, mechanical instruments do. The Bible does not authorize them. We are commanded to sing and that is all that we should do. I have often wandered why we think that God doesn't know what He wants and what He doesn't. If He tells us what He wants, should we not simply give Him that and leave other things off?

By the way, Ez.ra stood in a pulpit in Nehemiah 8:4. That doesn't say podium but pulpit/podium....same thing. Of course that was not in the 1st century church either....


Who says it has to? It certainly doesn't forbid them.
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