What is hell?

[betteroffdead]

Annihilation:
John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

So Jesus gives eternal life only to His sheep. He does not give eternal life to sinners meaning sinners will end up dead and thus cannot be subjected to eternal torment.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Bible says the wages of sin is death. The Bible does not say the wages of sin is eternal torment.

I John 3:15
003:015 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

A murderer is a sinner, is he not? So the Bible clearly says that sinners do not have eternal life.

Furthermore,if eternal torment is the penalty for sin and Jesus Christ is supposed to pay the penalty for our sin, why will Jesus Christ not be subjected to eternal torment?

Edited March 19, 2011 by betteroffdead

[betteroffdead]

How did you become aware of this, please provide your reference...link?

I cannot find the website where I learned of the possible mistranslation. I don’t remember exactly what search terms I had put into Google. But here are some other websites that document how the Greek word aion may have been mistranslated in the AKJ:

http://www.sabbathfellowship.org/biblestudies/erwingane/biblestudy_gane_immortaltxt.htm

“In speaking of the punishment of the wicked, both Jesus and Paul used the adjective ‘eternal’ or ‘everlasting.’ The Greek adjective used in the New Testament is aionios. This adjective and its corresponding noun aion (eternity), do not necessarily mean never ending. Often they refer to a period of limited duration. For example, this present ‘world’ or ‘age’ that is coming to an end is a number of times spoken of as this aion (Matt. 13:39; Eph. 1:21; 2 Tim. 4:10; 1 Cor. 2:7).”

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/RA/k/480/Eternal-Torment.htm

“If we understand ‘they will be tormented’ to include the Beast and the False Prophet, we must explain the phrase ‘forever and ever’ (eis tous aionas ton aionon). Literally, this means ‘to the ages of the ages,’ and would seem to imply perpetuity. However, we must be careful with the word aion. Its range of meaning runs from ‘a space or period of time’ to ‘a lifetime’ to ‘an age’ to ‘eternity.’ As in all such cases, the context must give the sense.”


http://www.helltruth.com/q-a/no-eternal-fire-but-yes-eternal-life.aspx

“The words translated ‘everlasting’ and ‘forever’ do not necessarily mean never ending. These terms, when found in the New Testament, come from the Greek noun aion, or from the adjective aionios derived from this noun. When we examine various Scripture texts containing aion, we discover at once how impossible it would be to attempt to make this Greek root always mean an endless period. We read in Matthew 13:39 and elsewhere of ‘the end of the world [aion].’ How could there be an ‘end’ to something if it where endless?”

Whether or not you translate aionios as everlasting/eternal when speaking of hellfire depends on what your theology is. If your theology is wrong, your translation will be wrong because you want your Bible to reflect your theology.

But a theology that calls for everlasting hellfire for an immortal soul defies the rest of the Bible:


I Timothy 6:13-16 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

The Bible says that only God is immortal.

[betteroffdead]

Actually it cannot not, as used in Matthew 25:46 as well as some other verses, below you will find how the word used in this verse and its meaning.

Mt 25:46 And και these ουτος shall go away απερχομαι into εις everlasting αιωνιος punishment κολασις: but δε the righteous δικαιος into εις life ζωη eternal αιωνιος.

G166 αιωνιος aionios ahee-o'-nee-os (25)
from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


That is, those who enter into hell shall be there for ever and shall be conscience of their punishment forever. Yet there will be those that do not like the Bible as it is written, the old Devil never lets up, and he is busy going about deceiving whosoever he can.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
.

Since I cannot read Greek, I cannot verify your conclusions.

Furthermore, Strong’s numbers for the AKJ only indicate how Greek words are translated in the AKJ. Strong’s does not necessarily indicate how Greek words should be properly translated. If the AKJ mistranslates something, then Strong’s will simply report the mistranslation without commenting on whether or not the AKJ is correct.

[betteroffdead]

If sinners are kept alive forever so they can be subjected to eternal torment, will they be in eternal rebellion against God? If the Lord is a righteous God, how can He legitimately tolerate sinful behavior for all eternity by not ending completely a sinner’s existence?

[Anon]

I believe the Bible calls it "eternal death" for the most part. We don't have to understand it. We take it by faith. But its technically not "eternal life"....its "eternal death".

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

The Bible is very clear on this issue. It is only unclear when people allow their emotions to determine doctrine. This verse was already mentioned but I want to mention it again. This verse alone is needed for clear evidence of eternity in hell.


Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The Greek word for everlasting and eternal is the EXACTLY the same! So if you are to say the punishment is not really eternal you have to say the life is also not eternal.

[betteroffdead]

The Greek word for everlasting and eternal is the EXACTLY the same! So if you are to say the punishment is not really eternal you have to say the life is also not eternal.

Eternal punishment is not the issue. The issue is what form eternal punishment will take. Will it be death, i.e., non-existence for all eternity, or will it be torment for all eternity? Show me the book, chapter and verse where the Bible says that sinners will physically burn in hell for all eternity. Prove to me that hellfire is literal and not figurative.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

Eternal punishment is not the issue. The issue is what form eternal punishment will take. Will it be death, i.e., non-existence for all eternity, or will it be torment for all eternity? Show me the book, chapter and verse where the Bible says that sinners will physically burn in hell for all eternity. Prove to me that hellfire is literal and not figurative.

Many verses have been shown to you that show physical punishment in hell. You sound like you have your mind made up and I would bet it is because you emotionally can't fathom there being eternal torture in hell. Here are some verses again, just for the benefit of someone browsing this thread that might be open to them.


Matthew 13:50
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 14:10-11
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

There is reason to believe the rich man and Lazarus is a true story. If it is a parable it is the only one to use an actual name. Even if it is a parable they are truthful so they are valid for using to describe what hell will be like.

Luke 16:23-24
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

[JerryNumbers]

Annihilation:
John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

So Jesus gives eternal life only to His sheep. He does not give eternal life to sinners meaning sinners will end up dead and thus cannot be subjected to eternal torment.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Bible says the wages of sin is death. The Bible does not say the wages of sin is eternal torment.

I John 3:15
003:015 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

A murderer is a sinner, is he not? So the Bible clearly says that sinners do not have eternal life.

Furthermore,if eternal torment is the penalty for sin and Jesus Christ is supposed to pay the penalty for our sin, why will Jesus Christ not be subjected to eternal torment?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So true, thus every person will die a physical death, yet their soul lives on, this is the punishment for sin.

Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

For you see, your soul will never dies, and one day the soul will be united back with the body, at the resurrection of life or the resurrection of damnation.

But, don't forget, every body will be resurrected.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those of the resurrection of life will spend eternity in heaven with both God & Jesus.

Those of the resurrection of damnation will spend eternity in the lake of fire, which is the 2nd death, the 2nd death is unlike the physical death, this process of the 2nd death never ends.

Yet, Jesus loves you, he does not want you nor anyone else to suffer that 2nd death, He offers you the free gift of salvation, but its up to you and or every person to accept to accept this gift. Those who refuse this gift, there will be no place found for them.

Re 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


They will endure the 2nd death, life forever, in the lake of fire. Remember, its your choice. No one, including God or Jesus forces this on anyone, they chose hell by not accepting Jesus as Savior and or rejecting Him/


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:8-9 (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)

Now, there is some Bible truths, yet you seem more interested what some web site said that you know nothing about and you say you can no longer find. Why listen to man and argue God, and His truths?

[betteroffdead]

Many verses have been shown to you that show physical punishment in hell. You sound like you have your mind made up and I would bet it is because you emotionally can't fathom there being eternal torture in hell. Here are some verses again, just for the benefit of someone browsing this thread that might be open to them.


Matthew 13:50
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 14:10-11
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

There is reason to believe the rich man and Lazarus is a true story. If it is a parable it is the only one to use an actual name. Even if it is a parable they are truthful so they are valid for using to describe what hell will be like.

Luke 16:23-24
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

What proof do you have that hellfire in these verses are literal and not figurative? None.

I am going to ask you a point blank question: Do you want unrepentant sinners to physically burn in eternal hellfire?

[betteroffdead]

So true, thus every person will die a physical death, yet their soul lives on, this is the punishment for sin.

But not for all eternity.

For you see, your soul will never dies,

Then why am I supposed to fear God, who can destroy it?

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

What proof do you have that hellfire in these verses are literal and not figurative? None.

I am going to ask you a point blank question: Do you want unrepentant sinners to physically burn in eternal hellfire?

There is no reason not to take the flames literally. Do I want the unrepentant to burn in eternal hellfire? Yes. That is God's will and I must align my will with his. Is that something easy to do? No. Only through Christ living through me is that possible.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

[John81]

The Word of God says what it says. When there is no reason not to, we should take what the Word says literally. There is no point to argue this.

[betteroffdead]

If the Bible really says that sinners will suffer eternal physical hellfire, and such language in the Bible is not simply figurative, is there any documentation outside of the Bible that eternal hellfire for sinners is what 1st and 2nd century Christians believed? What documentation do we have apart from the Bible that eternal hellfire is what Christians have always believed?

Is there any documentation outside of the King James Bible that eternal hellfire is what the King James Translators believed? How do we today know that the AKJ is an accurate translation and not simply the product of the personal (and possibly false) doctrines of its translators?

[betteroffdead]

Do I want the unrepentant to burn in eternal hellfire? Yes.

So you want the wicked to suffer eternal torment. This means you are not a Christian because you are willfully disobeying what Jesus Christ has told you to do:

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

Subjecting someone to eternal torment is not an act of love.