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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
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      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Surogates? - Pastors and Scholars Please Read and Advise

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I haven't ever really studied on this and would appreciate it if anyone has any scripture they could point towards to give direction on this one.

I have recently had some interest in the idea of women serving as surogate mothers for "test tube babies" for those who have problems either conceiving and/or carrying a child. Seems as though it would be a very great gift and blessing to help someone have a child who's body won't seem to allow it. My question is, is it right to take part in this practice or is it just another way for us to try and "play God"?

Again, this is a very sincere question. So, please, if you have any scriptural guidance on this matter, it could really help a family in my church out. Thanks.

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I don't have Scripture really against it. I do not know how I feel about it ethically.

The main thing I have against it is that it is VERY hard for the surrogate mother. I knew one lady online who was a surrogate mother and when a woman carries a child, it is physically attached to her, which becomes an emotional attachment whether the mother likes it or not. Even though its not her "cells", it still feels like her baby....and it is an extreme emotional strain on the surrogate mother to carry and bear a child and then give it up.

Yes it does pay well....but I can't see how its healthy psychologically.

I can't help with the ethics though...I"m kinda torn on that part.

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I don't have Scripture really against it. I do not know how I feel about it ethically.

The main thing I have against it is that it is VERY hard for the surrogate mother. I knew one lady online who was a surrogate mother and when a woman carries a child, it is physically attached to her, which becomes an emotional attachment whether the mother likes it or not. Even though its not her "cells", it still feels like her baby....and it is an extreme emotional strain on the surrogate mother to carry and bear a child and then give it up.

Yes it does pay well....but I can't see how its healthy psychologically.

I can't help with the ethics though...I"m kinda torn on that part.


This situation would not include money or any other kind of pay (which I think would be completely immorral - selling your body).

So what if a woman was wanting to do it just so that a friend who has tried for years on their own could have a child?
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It would be a wonderful friend who would be willing to carry a child to term and bear the baby, with all the possible complications, for her friend who couldn't have a baby. It would be so hard to give up the child that grew within her!

I don't know that I see a major ethical problem with it, if it's not done for pay (I know of many situations that are just for $$).

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I actually don't see a difference in motive.... its the same thing whether a favor or for pay.

I think its a very noble thing to do....just extremely hard on the surrogate mother. And from the surrogate I talked to online (we were on a list together while I was pg with my fourth) she never knew how hard it would be until she actually had the baby...and it was HARD. The surrogate needs to be prepared for that.

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I actually don't see a difference in motive.... its the same thing whether a favor or for pay.

I think its a very noble thing to do....just extremely hard on the surrogate mother. And from the surrogate I talked to online (we were on a list together while I was pg with my fourth) she never knew how hard it would be until she actually had the baby...and it was HARD. The surrogate needs to be prepared for that.


Well, that all depends....I've known people who do it just for pay (I know one who didn't actually "surrogate," but agreed, for a large fee, to have a baby for a sodomite couple :gross: ).

I think there would be a major difference - being paid makes it employment. Doing it because you care for someone and want to help them seems to me to be different.

Yeah - that's what I was meaning in my earlier post...after carrying the baby to term, and then having to give the baby up. Even if I could physically carry the babe (which I can't), I would be devastated to give it up.
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Well, that all depends....I've known people who do it just for pay (I know one who didn't actually "surrogate," but agreed, for a large fee, to have a baby for a sodomite couple :gross: ).

I think there would be a major difference - being paid makes it employment. Doing it because you care for someone and want to help them seems to me to be different.

Yeah - that's what I was meaning in my earlier post...after carrying the baby to term, and then having to give the baby up. Even if I could physically carry the babe (which I can't), I would be devastated to give it up.



Well to me, the physical action of carrying someone else's baby is either right or wrong. So its either okay to do (free or paid) or its not okay to do (free or paid). So my feeling on it is that if its ok, then it doens't matter WHY you do it.

I never really thought about it until I "met" that one surrogate mom and she shed SO many tears over the entire process. It was paid but also for a closer acquaintence/friend. And then at the end there was the problem of her kind of wanting to have a small part of the babies (twins) lives as they grew up, but the parents feeling a little bit threatened as they did not want the babies having any sort of "second mom". It was hard for everyone.

So if I ever had to counsel someone on it...I would say...that its a HUGE psychological risk but if they think they can handle it...bathe it in prayer AND sign contracts, paid or not. There will be medical bills due and possible complications, possible risks to the baby, etc. You don't want lawsuits or broken friendships.
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couple :gross: ).
I never really thought about it until I "met" that one surrogate mom and she shed SO many tears over the entire process. It was paid but also for a closer acquaintence/friend. And then at the end there was the problem of her kind of wanting to have a small part of the babies (twins) lives as they grew up, but the parents feeling a little bit threatened as they did not want the babies having any sort of "second mom". It was hard for everyone.

So if I ever had to counsel someone on it...I would say...that its a HUGE psychological risk but if they think they can handle it...bathe it in prayer AND sign contracts, paid or not. There will be medical bills due and possible complications, possible risks to the baby, etc. You don't want lawsuits or broken friendships.


I totally agree with this!!! It should be a matter of much prayer and real thought before it's agreed to.
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31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.

Gen 29:31 (KJV)

2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

Gen 30:2 (KJV)

22 And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb.

Gen 30:22 (KJV)

2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

Ex 13:2 (KJV)

These are just a few verses of which I came up with quickly, I think they would be many more that could be applied here.

I have not studied a bunch about this, but I have often thought about it.

Is it God who opens and closes the womb?

Is a new born baby a gift from God. I believe it is?

This is much different than people just taking medicine for treatment for what even problem or sickness they may have.

To me, I feel man is truly trying to play God.

Perhaps God had a reason for some women not to have babies, He certainly had His reason for closing and or opening some wombs. Yes, I know some will say if that is true nothing man tries will work. I think that is bad reasoning. Men does many things that are against the will of God without Him intervening.

I just don't believe the child of God ought to do such stuff, I just don't believe it would be right in sight of God when He is the giver of life and it is He who the Bible teaches that opens or closes a womb.

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I would personally tend to agree with Jerry on this issue. Essentially, Abraham and Sarah tried to use Hagar as a surrogate mother in the OT and that didn't work out to well. Granted, this isn't exactly the same thing, but I think it is a little to close for comfort.

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Thanks for that Jerry, good insight. I think I'll have to agree with you here. The more I think about it the more I realize, that while it is a very tough pill to swallow, too often we allow something we shouldn't due to emotions. These are very emotionally charged situations (as has been shared on another current thread), and what we can see (and really is) a caring act, can actually be undermining God's authority. I think the best place to advise these people to stay is on their knees, not at the clinic.

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It's very interesting the timing on this thread. I have a Christian friend that has been contemplating this exact thing. She would get paid but her true motivation is to be a vessel the Lord uses to bless other Christian families with a child when they can not conceive their own. She and her husband have been praying about it to know if God would bless this.

I personally think that it is a beautiful gift one Christian woman can give to a Christian family. Children are such a blessing. I don't think I could carry a child for 9 months and then give them to another person but I have known people that have and they just feel blessed to be part of something bigger then them.

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It's very interesting the timing on this thread. I have a Christian friend that has been contemplating this exact thing. She would get paid but her true motivation is to be a vessel the Lord uses to bless other Christian families with a child when they can not conceive their own. She and her husband have been praying about it to know if God would bless this.

I personally think that it is a beautiful gift one Christian woman can give to a Christian family. Children are such a blessing. I don't think I could carry a child for 9 months and then give them to another person but I have known people that have and they just feel blessed to be part of something bigger then them.


Just tell her it sounds way easier than it is....and its psychological torture. If she can deal with psychological torture, then maybe she can pray about doing it.
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I feel that if God does not allow a man and wife to conceive the natural way' date=' then a better alternative would be to adopt a child.[/quote']

I totally agree. Unfortunately some insurance companies pay for various forms of fertility treatments and IVF and things but its very hard to afford adoption. They make it so needlessly difficult to adopt kids. Its a shame.
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It's very interesting the timing on this thread. I have a Christian friend that has been contemplating this exact thing. She would get paid but her true motivation is to be a vessel the Lord uses to bless other Christian families with a child when they can not conceive their own. She and her husband have been praying about it to know if God would bless this.

I personally think that it is a beautiful gift one Christian woman can give to a Christian family. Children are such a blessing. I don't think I could carry a child for 9 months and then give them to another person but I have known people that have and they just feel blessed to be part of something bigger then them.


If her true motivation is to bless, this family, why accept payment?? No offense to your friend, but I just don't think it's right to sell yourself.
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Its sick, really. I know my SIL had eight kids and they are all in foster homes. Well when she had the last baby, there was a barren couple in my hub's home church down south where the kids all were...they wanted to adopt the two youngest ones. Well, the social services wouldn't even give them a second look because they were a white Christian couple.....the kids were mixed black/white....and they rathered put them in a single black woman's foster home!!!!

The only people they would have allowed to adopt would have been us, as we were family, but of course we could not do that....but they preferred to keep the kids in foster care (again, with a single mom watching most of them, pulling in a nice check from the government as she had four of my SIL's kids along with at least four others...its a lucrative babysitting job is what it is) than to let them be adopted to a loving family.

No wonder Christians are turning to possibly questionable scientific practices to bear children.
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I feel that if God does not allow a man and wife to conceive the natural way' date=' then a better alternative would be to adopt a child.[/quote']

I agree.
My neighbors could not have children, so they adopted a boy and a couple of years later, a girl. The little girl (a tiny infant at the time) had been abused and battered; it's a miracle she survived. From what I understand, the State GAVE them so much a month. I could be wrong but, I don't think it cost them much, if anything, to adopt. But I will check to make sure on this. I personally believe there are WAY more than enough unwanted children available for couples who can't have their own. Some people even adopt children from China and Russia.
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