Rebuke not an elder.......

[heartstrings]

I Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; 2The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

I was told the other day, that "Rebuke not an elder.." was referring to rebuking pastors. When I disagreed, they corrected me, (who am 10 years older than this person), they told me to study my Bible, and said that the Greek word "Presbuteros" was referring to an officer of the church or pastor. So I studied it again.

The word presbuteros, used in these two verses, is not only the word translated as "elders" but also "elder women". Not only that, but the context is comparing "elders" with "younger". Anyway, if one takes an older man aside, alone, asks him some questions about an offense, then clearly expresses disagreement with said offense, is pointing out the perceived wrong "rebuke"? Where does one draw the line?

[Guest]

I think it is also important how you handle the situation with regard to elders. Don't beat them or publicly embarass them. To take them aside and privately tell them they may be in error is not rebuke as I understand from below. If someone is publicly subverting the church, practice of faith, or If someone were on a tirade for their personal esteem, I would probably call them out quickly and publicly. That's the "old salt" in me.

Strong’s
G1969
ἐπιπλήσσω
epiplēssō
ep-ee-place'-so
From G1909 and G4141 ; to {chastise} that {is} (with words) to upbraid: - rebuke.

Webster’s 1828
chastise
1. To correct by punishing; to punish; to inflict pain by stripes, or in other manner, for the purpose of punishing an offender and recalling him to his duty.
upbraid
1. To charge with something wrong or disgraceful; to reproach; to cast in the teeth; followed by with or for, before the thing imputed; as, to upbraid a man for his folly or his intemperance.

[rancher824]

I have given a lot of thought about these verses in the past. You see I have been one that has been talked badly of for standing strong against an elder or pastor (no it was not my pastor as he was 100% behind me in not doing what the other pastor was telling me.) But most of the ones I have heard talk about this put verse 1 as pastors and do not go any farther. But I take note of a verse a little farther down in the chapter

1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Verse 20 says to rebuke those who are in sin. Being a pastor or an elderly or older man does not give one the license to sin or to go against God's word. What we find here is that we are to give proper respect to those who have experience in the word, but not to those who tread on the word.

[JerryNumbers]

One Sunday night I had preached at a church, Standing by the door one young man whom I found out later to be a pastor of an out of town church, told me I did not know what I spoke about. He looked to be every bit of 20 years old, I was about 55 at the time. Their pastor was not present, I was filling in for him.

He was referring to

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

He said, there is no such thing as the sin unto death, that the sin unto death was the same thing as the unpardonable sin.

I politely told him, "You need to study your Bible, the sin unto death and the unpardonable sin are two different things. Plus if you will read the verse preceding 1 John 5:16, you will find that its referring to saved people, not lost people."

2nd, Before you try to correct, rebuke, anyone, you need to be positive that your correct, in this case your 100% wrong.

3rd, You should never pass by a preacher or a pastor standing at the door after having given a sermon telling him that he does no know what he is talking about, there is a right way to do everything, you have chosen the wrong way. If you knew what you were speaking about, you would know how to approach a preacher or pastor about such a thing, so I must say it once again, try studying your Bible.

The man right behind him that heard most of what was said, "You seemed to handle that quite well, he should learn when to keep his mouth shut."

Many well intending people do things wrong, when they do things wrong, they, usually cause much more trouble than they try to correct.

I might add, it makes no difference how old and or young the speaker may have been, that is the wrong time. Plus if he had left of the spur of the moment, he may have realized his mistake, and avoided even a larger one.

There is a right time for such thing, yet its much easier to pick the wrong time.

[John81]

I Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; 2The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

Notice these verses are dealing with a broad topic, not just one. They deal with how one is to rightly take issue with an elder man, a young man, an elder woman and a young woman.

The emphasis is upon the attitude we aproach them with, which should be an attitude of respect and love. We should show them the same respect, love and kindness we should have towards our own dad, brother, mom or sister.

None of us, no matter our age or our maturity in Christ is beyond reproach and above possibly needing some correction, or assistance in helping us to see a better way of doing or saying something.

Whether a pastor, deacon or just an older man in Christ, if there is some issue we believe needs addressed regarding them, how much better to speak to them privately, respectfully, rather than to call them out in public with an attacking attitude.

Years ago I witnessed a brother in Christ being rebuked publically and as one might expect, his first reaction was to become defensive. All who ended up involved left angry. The next day I discussed the issue that was raised with that brother. As it turned out, the one making the rebuke had a legitimate thing to say, but he went about it wrongly, created division, hurt and angry feelings. How much different this could have turned out had that man approached this brother in private and respectfully talked to him about the issue.

[heartstrings]

I Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; 2The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

Notice these verses are dealing with a broad topic, not just one. They deal with how one is to rightly take issue with an elder man, a young man, an elder woman and a young woman.

The emphasis is upon the attitude we aproach them with, which should be an attitude of respect and love. We should show them the same respect, love and kindness we should have towards our own dad, brother, mom or sister.

None of us, no matter our age or our maturity in Christ is beyond reproach and above possibly needing some correction, or assistance in helping us to see a better way of doing or saying something.

Whether a pastor, deacon or just an older man in Christ, if there is some issue we believe needs addressed regarding them, how much better to speak to them privately, respectfully, rather than to call them out in public with an attacking attitude.

Years ago I witnessed a brother in Christ being rebuked publically and as one might expect, his first reaction was to become defensive. All who ended up involved left angry. The next day I discussed the issue that was raised with that brother. As it turned out, the one making the rebuke had a legitimate thing to say, but he went about it wrongly, created division, hurt and angry feelings. How much different this could have turned out had that man approached this brother in private and respectfully talked to him about the issue.

Exactly, that's what I did...privately. But this person went and told it.

Proverbs 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another:
10Lest he that heareth it put thee to shame, and thine infamy turn not away.

And I was then ublicly attacked. Proverbs 26:22 The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

And even if I was in the wrong in going to him privately.........
Proverbs 17:9 He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth [very] friends.

And he told some things that were not true.
Proverbs 26:28 A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.

[Wilchbla]

I Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; 2The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

I was told the other day, that "Rebuke not an elder.." was referring to rebuking pastors. When I disagreed, they corrected me, (who am 10 years older than this person), they told me to study my Bible, and said that the Greek word "Presbuteros" was referring to an officer of the church or pastor. So I studied it again.

The word presbuteros, used in these two verses, is not only the word translated as "elders" but also "elder women". Not only that, but the context is comparing "elders" with "younger". Anyway, if one takes an older man aside, alone, asks him some questions about an offense, then clearly expresses disagreement with said offense, is pointing out the perceived wrong "rebuke"? Where does one draw the line?

The fact that the context of the passage speaks of "elder women" should tell them it's not referring to a pastor. Any man old enough to be your father is your elder. This is what happens when someone takes the Greek over the English. The get so messed up in their doctrine that even the simple things get confused. Edited March 25, 2011 by Wilchbla

[HappyChristian]

The fact that the context of the passage speaks of "elder women" should tell them it's not referring to a pastor. Any man old enough to be your father is your elder. This is what happens when someone takes the Greek over the English. The get so messed up in their doctrine that even the simple things get confused.

Not only that, but Paul is addressing this to Timothy, who is a pastor. If the elder were referring to pastors, then that means no pastor could rebuke any pastor. And that isn't biblical in light of other verses that teach to reprove, rebuke, exhort, edify, etc.