Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Responses to My Warning About West Coast Baptist's Music - Part 3


Recommended Posts

  • Members
March 4, 2011 (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article)

Proverbs 27:5-6 “Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”

Galatians 4:16 “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”

Psalms 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”

Proverbs 9:8  “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.”

Psalms 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

Following are some more of the positive e-mails I received in response to the February 18 Friday News article “Lancaster Baptist Shouting to the Lord” and subsequent articles on that subject:

“If Brother Cloud is wrong on this issue, then he will need to admit he is wrong and humbly ask for forgiveness. But we first need to establish from the Scriptures whether he is wrong or not, and from what I see, Brother Cloud is dead right. If the people who have been caught with their hand stuck in the cookie jar want to establish that Brother Cloud is wrong, then they will need to do a lot better at using a relevant verse of Scripture to prove it than they have to date.  If that's the best these learned people can do then I don't think Brother Cloud needs to start writing his confession any time soon.”

“Bro. Cloud, do NOT stop speaking out against IB churches' compromises with CCM music.  It is music that appeals to the flesh, to emotions and to ‘feelings’ -- if it didn't, you would not be getting so much negative feedback.  Once one is sucked into its grip, it is difficult to shake loose. I know from experience and I'm not proud to admit it ... the music appealed to my flesh and I kept justifying my listening to it because it had ‘Christian lyrics.’ However, praise the Lord for your admonishing because the Lord used it to work on my heart!  I have abstained from this ungodly music for several months now and it amazes me how I could spot CCM's influence while viewing the ‘Shout to the Lord’ video. CCM has become an end-time 'church' with a huge cash cow which appeals to the flesh. Please, Bro. Cloud, do not stop the warnings!”


View the full article
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It is my humble opinion that the negative reactions to David Cloud's emails are a bit premature. Here is something from his Part 3 email that caught my eye and I would like to state publicly for the record that I wholeheartedly agree with this comment:

Keith and Kristyn Getty advertise themselves as ‘Modern Hymn Writers’ and are deceiving many into the Rock Genre by this very innocent title and the more conservative Praise Soft Rock music. But the fact is, that they are not modern hymnwriters because they are putting out Rock Music which is not spiritual at all but carnal and thereby, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and not the spirit (spiritual part of us yielding to the Holy Spirit).


As far as I am concerned, the so-called "modern hymn writing movement" that was started by Keith and Kristyn Getty is a deceptive tool (one of Satan's devices) to facilitate the use of contemporary praise music in independent fundamental Baptist churches.

Just because someone calls their songs "hymns" doesn't make them "hymns". If these songs were true hymns, then the writers of these so-called "modern hymns" wouldn't have rock music accompanying them. However, it is obvious (to me at least) that the writers of these so-called "modern hymns" love their rock music.

2 Timothy 3:6 - "For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts," Edited by brosmith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I know of sound churches which use modern hymns, including some by the Getty's. They use these hymns as they do other hymns, either to the accompaniment of a piano or organ. These churches don't allow rock, pop, rap or any other style of music to accompany any of their songs. These churches have been using some modern hymns along with other hymns for many years now and there is no sign of lowering of standards, no acceptance of rock music, no dropping of the KJB, no dropping of standards of dress, the Gospel is still preached, etc.

I do believe there is a case to be made against most of what is called CCM. However, I think there are some who find themselves following the way of the Pharisees who went well beyond the keeping of the spirit of the law and began adding their own burdensome laws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I know of sound churches which use modern hymns, including some by the Getty's. They use these hymns as they do other hymns, either to the accompaniment of a piano or organ. These churches don't allow rock, pop, rap or any other style of music to accompany any of their songs. These churches have been using some modern hymns along with other hymns for many years now and there is no sign of lowering of standards, no acceptance of rock music, no dropping of the KJB, no dropping of standards of dress, the Gospel is still preached, etc.


However, those churches have accepted a compromise.

Consider this quote from Keith and Kristyn Getty's website:

Keith and Kristyn Getty have been at the forefront of the modern hymn movement over the past decade demonstrating the ability to successfully bridge the gap between the traditional and contemporary.


Question: Should there be a bridge between the traditional and the contemporary? If there is a bridge, then what keeps an individual or a church from forsaking the traditional for the contemporary (since the contemporary always pleases the flesh)? By the way, these so-called "sound churches" may not tolerate rock music in their weekly services but somebody is listening to rock music in the privacy of their home or office.

Revelation 3:1 - "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead." Edited by brosmith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It is my humble opinion that the negative reactions to David Cloud's emails are a bit premature. Here is something from his Part 3 email that caught my eye and I would like to state publicly for the record that I wholeheartedly agree with this comment:



As far as I am concerned, the so-called "modern hymn writing movement" that was started by Keith and Kristyn Getty is a deceptive tool (one of Satan's devices) to facilitate the use of contemporary praise music in independent fundamental Baptist churches.

Just because someone calls their songs "hymns" doesn't make them "hymns". If these songs were true hymns, then the writers of these so-called "modern hymns" wouldn't have rock music accompanying them. However, it is obvious (to me at least) that the writers of these so-called "modern hymns" love their rock music.

2 Timothy 3:6 - "For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,"


True, yet some can't help their self.

And.


Ro 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Some cannot help their self, they've just got to be friends with the world, of course if one is not saved, they have not the power of God to resist the world, all they have is their own power along with the wants of the old man.

The very sad thing is many true Christians are letting such people influence them to be friends of this world too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members



However, those churches have accepted a compromise.

Consider this quote from Keith and Kristyn Getty's website:



Question: Should there be a bridge between the traditional and the contemporary? If there is a bridge, then what keeps an individual or a church from forsaking the traditional for the contemporary (since the contemporary always pleases the flesh)? By the way, these so-called "sound churches" may not tolerate rock music in their weekly services but somebody is listening to rock music in the privacy of their home or office.

Revelation 3:1 - "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead."


I don't agree with many of the things I've read from folks who wrote old hymns. To me, this doesn't matter because when I sing a song I don't think about who wrote it or what they believed. If the song I'm singing is biblically sound then I'm praising God from my heart and that's true whether I'm singing that song acapella, to an organ or a piano.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
If the song I'm singing is biblically sound then I'm praising God from my heart ....


How can a song be "biblically sound" when the writer of a particular song utilizes rock music in the production of that song? At best, you have words that sound biblical but are very deceptive because of the rock music that is used. Edited by brosmith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members



How can a song be "biblically sound" when the writer of a particular song utilizes rock music in the production of that song? At best, you have words that sound biblical but are very deceptive because of the rock music that is used.


I don't know about all songwriters, but it's very often the case that a song (lyrics) is written and afterwards the musical arrangements are added. Some songwriters will use a piano or guitar as they write or practice a song to come up with a general melody but it's only after the lyrics are written that music is truly set to them. Many songs are written and then have several different musical styles put to them so they have a broader marketing base.

One common approach with hymns is to set them to piano music, often to guitar, and then to put one or more specific styles of music to them, such as pop and country. None of the musical styles are the "one and only" style and the song can be played to any of them or others.

While on the road one night I was scanning the radio trying to find a Christian station. I came to a station where a guy was reading a devotional. After that he announced Amazing Grace would be the next song. Sure enough, Amazing Grace began but suddenly there was this wild electric guitar riff that joined in and the rest of the song was played as a rock song! Now I love Amazing Grace, but with that musical style attached to it I could not find any spiritual edificataion.

If the lyrics of the song are biblically sound and those lyrics are set to appropriate music, such as the piano, and sang like other hymns, I don't see a problem with that.

The history of Amazing Grace is an example of this as that song has had not only different verses added and subtracted over the years, but has also had a variety of tunes put to it before it finally became most associated with the one most of us are familiar with today.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you think of "There Is A Redeemer" by Keith and Melody Green?

Also, if you have a Baptist hymnal with a topical index section; does it have a praise heading, and what songs do you find there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

What do you think of "There Is A Redeemer" by Keith and Melody Green?

Also, if you have a Baptist hymnal with a topical index section; does it have a praise heading, and what songs do you find there?


If you are asking me, I'm not familiar with that song. Is that an older or newer song?

The only hymnal I have at home is "Soul Stirring Songs & Hymns" which is put out by Sword of the Lord. There are several different songs by several different authors under the Praise category.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've never heard the song either. I'm amazed, it seems each church has a different set of songs it sings, even when using the very same song books, Of course there will be a few that they will have in common.


It is interesting that the hymnal contains so many hymns yet most churches only sing a few but each church seems to select a different few, other than a few of the main ones which most all sing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

What do you think of "There Is A Redeemer" by Keith and Melody Green?


Well I grew up in a church that used a lot of "mild" CCM including that one though the name I knew it by then was "thank you oh my father". The words are certainly fine, and the music of that one wasn't bad either. But, and this is an important but, I would not recommend it due to the other music he produced. From what I know of keith Green I do think he loved the Lord and I fully expect him to be in heaven, however, he came out of the drug, rock and hippie culture and it showed strongly in most of his music. The words are often quite good, but he showed poor discernment in that the music itself and his singing style was straight from the world. In a lot of ways it reminds me of what the Lord would say about certain kings in the OT, he would say that they did right in the sight of the Lord, but then he would promptly add something along the general lines of this: "nevertheless the high places were not taken away and the people still sacrificed and burnt incense to the Lord(or other gods) in the high places." That is how I feel about CCM "artists" that seem to love the Lord and CCM that has good words, bad music, and is sung in a worldly manner. All the good kings of Judah after David unto Hezekiah did not destroy the groves or the high places, spiritual strongholds where sometimes false gods were worshiped or where the true God was worshiped in the wrong way, even though they did love the Lord. When Hezekiah came though he was the first "good" king since David that wholly followed the Lord and the scriptures honor him for it.

"2 Kings 18:1-6 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah. And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses."

We need to not just "generally" do right and follow the Lord, we also need to destroy the groves and high places, and that includes avoiding songs and songwriters that mix Gods truth with unholy music and worldly methods. If you don't already have spiritual groves and high places in your life don't set any up, and if you do ask the Lord for the courage to cut them down. Edited by Seth-Doty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

1 Kings 15:14 (King James Version)

14But the high places were not removed: nevertheless Asa's heart was perfect with the LORD all his days.


King Asa didn't remove the high places yet God declared Asa's heart was "perfect with the LORD all his days".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...