Responses From My Warnings About Lancaster's Music

[John81]

Um, yeah, "Christian" rock is definitely a style of music...and ALL music that has words has to do with lyrics. Your statement shows that you really are out of touch with those who listen to and justify "Christian" rock (I put quotes around the Christian because it is rock but in no way Christian), or you just don't understand the nature of it. To those who listen and justify it, it is every bit Christian because of the lyrics. The belief is that the tune is amoral. And, sadly, that is what you seem to be promoting when you say if the lyrics are okay....That is exactly what CCM purveyors say as well. We can have music that sounds bluesy, or reggae, or swingy, or rocky, just as long as the words are okay.

You may not like Amazing Grace put to rock music (and I don't blame you at all), but others do. A little bit inconsistent, though, John, 'cause you said: "I don't understand the idea that if a song has biblical lyrics there is still something wrong with the song." Hey, the words are okay, so the song is...no matter if it's put to rock or not. Right?

Perhaps we are confusing terms or something here. I consider a song to be the lyrics. A song can be set to various music. The music itself doesn't make a song/lyrics biblical or unbiblical.

There are some CCM songs which are biblical and set to appropriate music I don't see why a Christian should not sing them. Just as I wouldn't want Amazing Grace played to rock music in church, I wouldn't want a biblically sound CCM song played in church to such music either; yet if a biblically sound CCM song were played to the accompaniment of a piano, that may be fine.

You are right, I'm not overly familiar with much of CCM because I don't care for most of it.

[Covenanter]

LuAnne, do you think you could sing this song, played simply, or without music?

In Christ alone my hope is found,
He is my light, my strength, my song;
this Cornerstone, this solid Ground,
firm through the fiercest drought and storm.
What heights of love, what depths of peace,
when fears are stilled, when strivings cease!
My Comforter, my All in All,
here in the love of Christ I stand.

In Christ alone! who took on flesh
Fulness of God in helpless babe!
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones he came to save:
Till on that cross as Jesus died,
The wrath of God was satisfied -
For every sin on Him was laid;
Here in the death of Christ I live.

There in the ground His body lay
Light of the world by darkness slain:
Then bursting forth in glorious Day
Up from the grave he rose again!
And as He stands in victory
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me,
For I am His and He is mine -
Bought with the precious blood of Christ.

No guilt in life, no fear in death,
This is the power of Christ in me;
From life's first cry to final breath.
Jesus commands my destiny.
No power of hell, no scheme of man,
Can ever pluck me from His hand;
Till He returns or calls me home,
Here in the power of Christ I'll stand.

[Bro Jim]

In my opinion this thing called CCM is not of God, I was a rock-n-roller before I got saved. As I listen to some of this stuff I have a hard time telling the difference between today's secular music and CCM. Some of it is even designed to "cross over" into worldly music. If you follow the "career" of some of these "CCM' entertainers they are far from a Christian witness.

One question to ask is, "does it appeal to the flesh or the spirit?" Paul said try the spirits whether they be of God.

Google some of these bands.

Check out this article and some of the other info there: http://www.biblebeli....com/Rock1.html

I don't believe everything written today is "CCM".

Edited February 22, 2011 by Bro Jim

[brosmith]

I listened to a sample of this song on Stuart Townend's website. His use of rock music causes me to not only reject this song, but everything else that he has to offer. His music is a snare of the devil. Do not be deceived by his vain words.

Ephesians 5:6 - "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience." Edited February 22, 2011 by brosmith

[Pastorj]

Bro. Smith

Here are your four questions and I will do my best to answer them. Let me first state that I am not currently pastoring a church, though have been a pastor for almost 20 years and have pastored 2 churches in this time.

#1 - Are you educating your people so that they have a spiritual understanding of the dangers of contemporary Christian music?
I have taken my people to music seminars by Dr. Frank Garlock. I have preached many messages on having a proper philosophy of music in both the church, home and in the car.

#2 - Show me scriptural proof that pointing out the error in any so-called "Christian organization" is wrong. Is it not your responsibility to educate your people on how to discern truth from error and how to avoid being snared by the devil? Hillsong music is a snare of the devil.
The apostles dealt directly with the church and it's error. The letters to the church at Corinth were very pointed at their sin. These letters were later distributed to all of the churches in Asia Minor as they became part of the Canon of Scripture. However, the apostles intent was never to smear a church, but to bring about change. I have written to PCC many times about the error that they are in. I have never sent any of those letters to every pastor I know. The scriptural way of handling things is found in Matt. 18 (local church). There were many pastors that I didn't agree with, including the man who followed me at my first church. Though I was shocked by his position on the Holy Spirit, it was now that churches responsibility to deal with him, not mine.

#3 - The phrase "let the Holy Spirit do the work" is a coward's way of thinking. As a pastor, God gave you the responsibility to protect the sheep that God has entrusted to you from the wolves in sheep's clothing. We have packs of wolves attacking the sheep through the medium of "Christian music." Are you doing the job that God has called you to do?
I take offense to you calling me and any other Pastor a coward for teaching the Word of God and letting Him convict people of their sin. It is not the Pastor's responsibility to hand hold every member of the church. Believe me, I tried this in the first few years of pastoring. What I learned is that people will only change if God is convicting them.

#4 - Do you approve of your church members listening to "good" songs that are accompanied by rock music just so they can learn how to sing them even though they have no intentions of using the background music when they sing them as specials in your church services?

We used the piano to support our special music. Songs had to be approved by me, or my song-leader. Music was given to my wife and she learned it. They practiced and then sang before the church.
I hope that answers your questions adequately

[John81]

LuAnne, do you think you could sing this song, played simply, or without music?

This is a scripturally sound hymn, and very powerful. Just like the hymn "Amazing Grace", this hymn can be found with various forms of music accompanying it. One can sing any of these scripturally sound songs with the accompanying music of their preference, or without music, and give praise, glory, honour and worship to God.

[brosmith]

I take offense to you calling me and any other Pastor a coward for teaching the Word of God and letting Him convict people of their sin. It is not the Pastor's responsibility to hand hold every member of the church. Believe me, I tried this in the first few years of pastoring. What I learned is that people will only change if God is convicting them.

It is true that the Holy Spirit must be working on the person's heart in order for the person to have a change of heart. However, I have seen far too many preachers use this as a cop out for not dealing with sin in the church. I personally know a pastor in my area who refuses to deal with sin in his church because he has the attitude "let the Holy Spirit do the work." As far as I am concerned, he is a coward.

John 10:13 - "The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep."

[Anon]

I don't know what kind of sin you are talking about and do not want to know, but that pastor answers to God for how he leads his church, not to you.

[Pastorj]

Bro. Smith,

It would depend on the sin. Scripture only lists 4 types of sin that are to be brought before the church
1. Fornication (1 Cor. 5:3-13)
2. False Doctrine (Titus 1:13; 1 Tim. 1:19-20; 2 Tim. 2:16-18)
3. Disorderly - Walking Contrary to Scripture (2 Thess. 3:6-15)
4. Division (Rom. 16:17-18; Titus 3:10) centers around false teaching

CCM is not on the list.

[Covenanter]

I listened to a sample of this song on Stuart Townend's website. His use of rock music causes me to not only reject this song, but everything else that he has to offer. His music is a snare of the devil. Do not be deceived by his vain words.

Ephesians 5:6 - "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."

I deliberately posted this hymn without a link. I play these hymns with an organ, or lead them without music. You have to search to find what you call "rock music." How many rock musicians would recognise Stuart's band as a rock band? Are you so prejudiced that you cannot say "Amen" to a hymn directing you to "Christ alone."

Which words in that hymn are "vain words?"

I have heard objections to the words - objections to the teaching that "on that cross as Jesus died,
The wrath of God was satisfied." They don't like God having wrath against sin & sinners. The prefer a god who is all universal love, so that they can continue in sin.

In recent years Stuart Townend has been concerned to move away from the pop-style songs of earlier years to writing hymns with substance.

The result is that a new Calvinistic baptist hymn book, "New Christian Hymns" has included a number of his hymns, particularly in collaboration with Keith Getty.

[HappyChristian]

Covenanter, those words are powerful! I youtubed the song, and found a couple of renditions - all of which, I think, didn't do justice to the words. I've heard the tune before...Do you have the music for it (you said you play it on the organ)?

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

David Cloud has no business sending out letters to pastors ridiculing a Christian College. It is the Pastor's responsbility to educate his people, not David Cloud's

Actually is would be a sin for David Cloud to not shed light on the issue. Many pastors are just plain ignorant on today's issues. There is a lot of compromise going on in Baptist churches that use to be sound fundamental churches. The seminaries are being hit the hardest which will end up trickling into the churches more and more over time.

[Pastorj]

So because pastors are not doing their job, we should violate principles of God's Word, I don't thiink so.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

So because pastors are not doing their job, we should violate principles of God's Word, I don't thiink so.

The problem is that you assume God's principles are being violated. You need to establish that as fact before you assume it.

[Seth Doty]

The problem is that you assume God's principles are being violated. You need to establish that as fact before you assume it.

I agree on that point. Pastorj has not presented any evidence for why this "violates principles in God's Word" and as best I have so far been able to gather it seems to boil down to his opinion that this particular issue is a "petty" one and not worth troubling about. Whether you agree or disagree with that particular point of view it is certain what makes a minor or petty issue is somewhat subjective. Some things Pastorj may take seriously I or others may consider minor issues not worth troubling about and vice versa. No matter what level you take a firm position at there are always some who consider it petty, pointless, or divisive. Pastorj might not draw the line on music the same place cloud or someone else might, but unless things have changed I am pretty sure that he draws it before "christian" hard rock and "christian" rap. There are those who consider criticizing any music that uses the title of "christian" to be petty and not worth troubling about and they would likely consider Pastorj's opposition those types of music to be petty and "divisive". It is simply a matter of degree.