Responses From My Warnings About Lancaster's Music

[trc123]

This is one of those topics that many people have OCD moments over and will go to great lengths to prove those who disagree with their precise definition and standard is the only "God" given definition and standard are either living in worldly sin or they are not truly saved.

[Anon]

I don't believe it is anyone's responsbility to write a book, send an email or a letter out criticizing a Christian organization. Write a book on the subject and let the Holy Spirit do the work. Too many Christians are being critical of the wrong enemy.

I'm torn on it...because Paul, in the NT, sent out warnings about problems in churches and things....so...I dunno. I am on the fence on this one...it doesn't offend me, but I'm not sure its completely called for either. (I'm talking in general, not referring to the specific subject matter of music.)

[HappyChristian]

"Shout to the Lord" is definitely CCM...and the 12 top winners on American Idol last year did SUCH a good job with it. :coolsmiley:

[John81]

CCM means Contemporary Christian Music. Any Christian music composed in the past several decades falls into the very broad category of CCM.

I've heard the name of the song "Shout to the Lord", but I don't know what the lyrics are, so I have no idea whether this song is biblical or not. We don't watch or follow American Idol, the name of the show is enough to let one know it's not appropriate, but from what I've heard others speak of about the show, it's nothing good but they seem to sing just about every kind of music.

[HappyChristian]

CCM means Contemporary Christian Music. Any Christian music composed in the past several decades falls into the very broad category of CCM. I do know what CCM means, John. And, no, any Christian music composed in the past several decades would not fall into the category that is known as CCM. Just because it is current music doesn't make it CCM as it is known by even those who listen to it.

I've heard the name of the song "Shout to the Lord", but I don't know what the lyrics are, so I have no idea whether this song is biblical or not. We don't watch or follow American Idol, the name of the show is enough to let one know it's not appropriate, but from what I've heard others speak of about the show, it's nothing good but they seem to sing just about every kind of music. That is exactly my point. Some of the words to Shout to the Lord are good - but words alone do not godly songs make. I don't watch or follow American Idol, either, for the express reason (other than that I don't have a tv and wouldn't want to watch it if I did!) that the music that is done on there is worldly, appealing to the flesh in ways that are not right. I did hear Shout to the Lord as sung by them...and it was in no way God honoring. Just as CCM music is not. It is first and foremost fleshly. And when the flesh is pleased before the spirit even begins to respond, there is a problem with said music.

[John81]

CCM means just what it says, Contemporary Christian Music. Christian music written during the past several decades are categorized as CCM. CCM is not a certain type or style of music. Hymns, ballads, pop and all sorts of other forms of Christian music written in the past few decades are called CCM because that's what they are.

CCM is most commonly known for the type of Christian music that might be heard on Christian radio, but that's only a portion of what makes up CCM. Christian country, Christian bluegrass, Christian hymns, Christian pop, Christian rap, Christian rock, Christian classical, Christian urban, etc., while each compossing perhaps a separate category, they all fall under the umbrella of CCM.

I don't understand the idea that if a song has biblical lyrics there is still something wrong with the song.

I also don't understand the idea that if certain people sing a song or use certain music with a song that it makes the song itself bad. I've heard Amazing Grace performed acapella, to piano, organ, guitar, with an orchestra, a band, in a country sound, bluegrass, rock, pop, etc. Certainly I found some versions inappropriate and some versions I found horrible to listen to, I've also heard worldly folks sing the song, but none of that makes Amazing Grace any less biblical or worthy of a Christian to sing.

[Covenanter]

Some of the CCM singer/songwriters have produced excellent hymns - when played with a piano or organ even David Cloud would have no problem.

Stuart Townend & Kieth Getty have written some great hymns, e.g. How deep the Father's love for us. When I heard this one, I phoned the station for information.

OTOH most of the great hymns in baptist hymn books are by paedobaptists like John Newton, Charles Wesley, Isaac Watts ....

[John81]

Some of the CCM singer/songwriters have produced excellent hymns - when played with a piano or organ even David Cloud would have no problem.

Stuart Townend & Kieth Getty have written some great hymns, e.g. How deep the Father's love for us. When I heard this one, I phoned the station for information.

OTOH most of the great hymns in baptist hymn books are by paedobaptists like John Newton, Charles Wesley, Isaac Watts ....

Well put. That's part of the point I tried to make in my clumsy way. :icon_mrgreen:

[trc123]

Some of the CCM singer/songwriters have produced excellent hymns - when played with a piano or organ even David Cloud would have no problem.

Stuart Townend & Kieth Getty have written some great hymns, e.g. How deep the Father's love for us. When I heard this one, I phoned the station for information.

OTOH most of the great hymns in baptist hymn books are by paedobaptists like John Newton, Charles Wesley, Isaac Watts ....

CCM means just what it says, Contemporary Christian Music. Christian music written during the past several decades are categorized as CCM. CCM is not a certain type or style of music. Hymns, ballads, pop and all sorts of other forms of Christian music written in the past few decades are called CCM because that's what they are.

CCM is most commonly known for the type of Christian music that might be heard on Christian radio, but that's only a portion of what makes up CCM. Christian country, Christian bluegrass, Christian hymns, Christian pop, Christian rap, Christian rock, Christian classical, Christian urban, etc., while each compossing perhaps a separate category, they all fall under the umbrella of CCM.

I don't understand the idea that if a song has biblical lyrics there is still something wrong with the song.

I also don't understand the idea that if certain people sing a song or use certain music with a song that it makes the song itself bad. I've heard Amazing Grace performed acapella, to piano, organ, guitar, with an orchestra, a band, in a country sound, bluegrass, rock, pop, etc. Certainly I found some versions inappropriate and some versions I found horrible to listen to, I've also heard worldly folks sing the song, but none of that makes Amazing Grace any less biblical or worthy of a Christian to sing.

I'm really starting to get concerned. I agree with both of you! :amen:

[HappyChristian]

Okay - let's tell all of those folks who listen to CCM that it includes EVERY single song written in current times. Sorry, but those who enjoy all of CCM know exactly what it infers. And it isn't talking about the songs I've written.

John, if you can't understand why a song that has biblical lyrics could be wrong, I guess "Christian" rock is okay by you, then. After all, the lyrics are from the Bible....

As I've stated in other threads, not all of what falls under the realm of CCM is wrong, IMO. But if a song appeals to the flesh first and foremost, it is not God-honoring and therefore wrong. The Bible says, "Speaking to yourselves in psalms, hymns and SPIRITUAL songs." Not fleshly songs that happen to have words from the Bible.

[Anon]

Keep in mind that Billy Sunday's "hymns" were considered worldly as compared to the high-church doxology music of old days....

I think the Holy Spirit can do a great job directing us what is right and wrong...unfortunately some people think they have the Holy Spirit active in their life but they really do not.

[brosmith]

David Cloud has no business sending out letters to pastors ridiculing a Christian College. It is the Pastor's responsbility to educate his people, not David Cloud's.

I don't believe it is anyone's responsbility to write a book, send an email or a letter out criticizing a Christian organization. Write a book on the subject and let the Holy Spirit do the work. Too many Christians are being critical of the wrong enemy.

#1 - Are you educating your people so that they have a spiritual understanding of the dangers of contemporary Christian music?

#2 - Show me scriptural proof that pointing out the error in any so-called "Christian organization" is wrong. Is it not your responsibility to educate your people on how to discern truth from error and how to avoid being snared by the devil? Hillsong music is a snare of the devil.

#3 - The phrase "let the Holy Spirit do the work" is a coward's way of thinking. As a pastor, God gave you the responsibility to protect the sheep that God has entrusted to you from the wolves in sheep's clothing. We have packs of wolves attacking the sheep through the medium of "Christian music." Are you doing the job that God has called you to do?

#4 - Do you approve of your church members listening to "good" songs that are accompanied by rock music just so they can learn how to sing them even though they have no intentions of using the background music when they sing them as specials in your church services?

[John81]

Okay - let's tell all of those folks who listen to CCM that it includes EVERY single song written in current times. Sorry, but those who enjoy all of CCM know exactly what it infers. And it isn't talking about the songs I've written.

John, if you can't understand why a song that has biblical lyrics could be wrong, I guess "Christian" rock is okay by you, then. After all, the lyrics are from the Bible....

As I've stated in other threads, not all of what falls under the realm of CCM is wrong, IMO. But if a song appeals to the flesh first and foremost, it is not God-honoring and therefore wrong. The Bible says, "Speaking to yourselves in psalms, hymns and SPIRITUAL songs." Not fleshly songs that happen to have words from the Bible.

Christian "rock" is a style of music and has nothing to do with the lyrics. I've heard Amazing Grace put to rock music. While I don't want to hear Amazing Grace put to rock music again, I do still love the song Amazing Grace.

[John81]

Keep in mind that Billy Sunday's "hymns" were considered worldly as compared to the high-church doxology music of old days....

I think the Holy Spirit can do a great job directing us what is right and wrong...unfortunately some people think they have the Holy Spirit active in their life but they really do not.

True indeed. Many hymns, when they first came forth, were met with resistance because of their contemporary nature.

[HappyChristian]

Christian "rock" is a style of music and has nothing to do with the lyrics. I've heard Amazing Grace put to rock music. While I don't want to hear Amazing Grace put to rock music again, I do still love the song Amazing Grace.

Um, yeah, "Christian" rock is definitely a style of music...and ALL music that has words has to do with lyrics. Your statement shows that you really are out of touch with those who listen to and justify "Christian" rock (I put quotes around the Christian because it is rock but in no way Christian), or you just don't understand the nature of it. To those who listen and justify it, it is every bit Christian because of the lyrics. The belief is that the tune is amoral. And, sadly, that is what you seem to be promoting when you say if the lyrics are okay....That is exactly what CCM purveyors say as well. We can have music that sounds bluesy, or reggae, or swingy, or rocky, just as long as the words are okay.

You may not like Amazing Grace put to rock music (and I don't blame you at all), but others do. A little bit inconsistent, though, John, 'cause you said: "I don't understand the idea that if a song has biblical lyrics there is still something wrong with the song." Hey, the words are okay, so the song is...no matter if it's put to rock or not. Right?