No man knows the day or hour

[John81]

I was actually born again while attending casual Sunday night services at an Assembly of God church, which was my girlfriends church. Thankfully, their pastor at that time wasn't of the Charismatic sort. He was very end-times, the Rapture will come any minute now, centered. That meant very little preaching that would build a new Christian up. Not only that, since I hadn't been taught or yet learned that my salvation was secure, all the concentration upon the Rapture and horrors of Tribulation had me scared. I was affraid for my family and loved ones, I was fearful that somehow I would miss the Rapture. I can still remember a few times it seemed things got very silent, or I would awake and hear nothing and no one would answer and a sense of panic would come over me that the Rapture had occured, the Tribulation had begun, and for some reason I was still here!

It was an exciting time because being a new Christian I was filled with the zeal of the Lord but I was totally lacking any discipleship or preaching that would help me grow in Christ, and because of my lack of biblical knowledge and understanding, it was also a scary time.

It's a shame so many preachers get caught up in all this and they just camp there. One of the things I'm so thankful for with how our pastor preaches is that, no matter what book of the Bible he's preaching from, not matter what verses, he always makes it a point to let us know how it applies to us today. What a blessing to have a pastor which helps his flock learn how to apply the Word. How I wish I had been sitting under such a pastor when I was first saved!

[Bro Jim]

Billy Sunday preached what needed to be done for Jesus to come was that the last soul that will be saved during the church age would be saved. I reckon he meant that God knows when that last soul in this age will be saved. When, where, who, only God knows. Kinda of interesting to think that the person you may be leading to Christ may be that last soul. I know God is merciful and wants to see as many saved as we can reach. But there is a stopping point in this church age of grace.

There is a time for preaching on the rapture, and all other things it is called balance. So preachers go to pot on things and that is from one extreme to the other. It is important to preach the whole counsel of God, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning..." to Rev. 22:20 "...Amen."

Edited February 11, 2011 by Bro Jim

[HappyChristian]

Billy Sunday preached what needed to be done for Jesus to come was that the last soul that will be saved during the church age would be saved. I reckon he meant that God knows when that last soul in this age will be saved. When, where, who, only God knows. Kinda of interesting to think that the person you may be leading to Christ may be that last soul. I know God is merciful and wants to see as many saved as we can reach. But there is a stopping point in this church age of grace.

There is a time for preaching on the rapture, and all other things it is called balance. So preachers go to pot on things and that is from one extreme to the other. It is important to preach the whole counsel of God, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning..." to Rev. 22:20 "...Amen."

Ive heard that teaching from others (in fact, a well known preacher actually exhorted his people that they could force God to bring about the rapture by aggressive soulwinning and getting that last one...), but I don't know that I believe it. God has appointed times and seasons, and knows exactly when He will send Christ. It could very well be as soon as the "last" person who is going to get saved does, but it doesn't necessarily mean that (I know you didn't say it did, Bro Jim...I'm just talking). I, too, believe there is a stopping point in this age of grace - and it is the time appointed by the Father. Could just be semantics. :)

[Bro Jim]

I've heard that comment made about aggressive soul winning too. It is up to God and Him alone we cannot force God to do anything, We cannot force of command God, there is a group ut there that believes you can, and think they are called "Word of Faith", you are sick, etc. because you have not commanded God to heal you, therefore you are in sin.

[John81]

While we should certainly be witnesses for Christ, spreading the Gospel, and God certainly knows who will be the last one saved before Christ returns, there is nothing we can do to force God's hand on anything. To even suggest such places control in the hands of the one who believes such.

I've also heard preachers who say we be happy to see nations hating Israel and wanting to attack Israel. They say anything we can do to get Israel attacked sooner will force Christ to return sooner. Again, if one believes they can force God's hand on anything, that would place them in control and not God.

We likely all agree that our part in all of this is to obey the Word of God in all we do and trust God with the outcome and with the timing.

[Bro Jim]

While we should certainly be witnesses for Christ, spreading the Gospel, and God certainly knows who will be the last one saved before Christ returns, there is nothing we can do to force God's hand on anything. To even suggest such places control in the hands of the one who believes such.

I've also heard preachers who say we be happy to see nations hating Israel and wanting to attack Israel. They say anything we can do to get Israel attacked sooner will force Christ to return sooner. Again, if one believes they can force God's hand on anything, that would place them in control and not God.

We likely all agree that our part in all of this is to obey the Word of God in all we do and trust God with the outcome and with the timing.

AMEN & AMEN

[JerryNumbers]

Quite amazing, that anyone could think they could force God in any manner.

[Crushmaster]

Indeed, we can't know the day or the hour. However, we have been in the Last Days since Pentecost, and that's been almost 2,000 years. I, personally, believe the world will end about 2,000 years after Christ's ascension; when the world's time-clock reaches 6,000 years. You know, seven "days", six of the "world's time", and one of rest (the Millennium). But, I don't believe in a Pre or Mid-Trib Rapture, either.

Just a Southern boy's thoughts.
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

[JerryNumbers]

Ps 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


Mr 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Mt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mt 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mt 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

[Covenanter]

Indeed, we can't know the day or the hour. However, we have been in the Last Days since Pentecost, and that's been almost 2,000 years. I, personally, believe the world will end about 2,000 years after Christ's ascension; when the world's time-clock reaches 6,000 years. You know, seven "days", six of the "world's time", and one of rest (the Millennium). But, I don't believe in a Pre or Mid-Trib Rapture, either.

Just a Southern boy's thoughts.
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

Barnabas, writing around 100 AD, agrees with you. I suspect that he is quoting Jewish tradition.

Barnabas 15:1
Moreover concerning the Sabbath likewise it is written in the Ten
Words, in which He spake to Moses face to face on Mount Sinai; And
ye shall hallow the Sabbath of the Lord with pure hands and with a
pure heart.

Barnabas 15:2
And in another place He saith; If my sons observe the Sabbath then
I will bestow My mercy upon them.

Barnabas 15:3
Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And
God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the
seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it.

Barnabas 15:4
Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He
meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all
things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six
days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.


Barnabas 15:5
And He rested on the seventh day. this He meaneth; when His Son
shall come, and shall abolish the time of the Lawless One, and shall
judge the ungodly, and shall change the sun and the moon and the
stars, then shall he truly rest on the seventh day.

Barnabas 15:6
Yea and furthermore He saith; Thou shalt hallow it with pure hands
and with a pure heart. If therefore a man is able now to hallow
the day which God hallowed, though he be pure in heart, we have gone
utterly astray.

Barnabas 15:7
But if after all then and not till then shall we truly rest and
hallow it, when we shall ourselves be able to do so after being
justified and receiving the promise, when iniquity is no more and all
things have been made new by the Lord, we shall be able to hallow it
then, because we ourselves shall have been hallowed first.

Barnabas 15:8
Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot
away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present
Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have
made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make
the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another
world.

Barnabas 15:9
Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which
also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended
into the heavens.

My Brethren friends expressed the same idea 50 years ago, in order to "prove" a future millennium. I don't know to what extent others down the ages have repeated the idea. It's not valid exegesis, as there is no such indication in Scripture.

[John81]

Some of the "prophecy hounds" are already making much speculation over how what's going on in Egypt and some other Arab countries relates to Bible prophecy.

I recall during the First Gulf War, under President Bush the First, many of the Bible prophecy "teachers" were proclaiming the end was very near, the Rapture would come soon, because America having large forces in the Mid-East was a clear sign that Armageddon was near.

[JerryNumbers]

Some of the "prophecy hounds" are already making much speculation over how what's going on in Egypt and some other Arab countries relates to Bible prophecy.

I recall during the First Gulf War, under President Bush the First, many of the Bible prophecy "teachers" were proclaiming the end was very near, the Rapture would come soon, because America having large forces in the Mid-East was a clear sign that Armageddon was near.

And boy was they wrong, just like anyone else that predicts that day, for God made it clear, no man would know, it would be at a time ye think not, yet still people make fools of themselves.

[Invicta]

Barnabas, writing around 100 AD, agrees with you. I suspect that he is quoting Jewish tradition.


My Brethren friends expressed the same idea 50 years ago, in order to "prove" a future millennium. I don't know to what extent others down the ages have repeated the idea. It's not valid exegesis, as there is no such indication in Scripture.

I am not sure that there was any indication that the 70 years exile were to be the earth's sabbaths, Chr 36:21. There surely must be a jubilee?

[Crushmaster]

Barnabas, writing around 100 AD, agrees with you. I suspect that he is quoting Jewish tradition.

My Brethren friends expressed the same idea 50 years ago, in order to "prove" a future millennium. I don't know to what extent others down the ages have repeated the idea. It's not valid exegesis, as there is no such indication in Scripture.

Very interesting. Thanks, brother.

I saw a movie by the Christiano brothers about this that was very interesting; I think it was called, Last [or, Final] Harvest.

Thanks for your thoughts.
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

[Invicta]

Very interesting. Thanks, brother.

I saw a movie by the Christiano brothers about this that was very interesting; I think it was called, Last [or, Final] Harvest.

Thanks for your thoughts.
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

The Christian Brothers are a sect of RC monks. I have a friend who was brought up in a RC orphanage in Ireland,run by the Christian Brothers, and suffered terrible abuse there.