Members JerryNumbers Posted February 14, 2011 Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 Amen Marty!Seems to me Jesus Church, His bride, is yet unfinshed, and will not be finished until its taken out of this world. And it seem clear this will happen when Jesus Comes back for His own, for there will not be a single saved baptized believer left in this world, Jesus' Churches are made up of saved baptize believers. Of course at that time the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn from this world.2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And soon after that Wicked one will be revealed. irishman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Rick Posted February 14, 2011 Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 Jesus Christ is the Chief Shepherd of the universal, invisible church.I Peter 5:4, "And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted February 14, 2011 Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 That's right. And what church was John a member of when he was exiled to the Isle of Patmos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chev1958 Posted February 14, 2011 Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 The epistles were written to local churches--real churches that were active in their community. Theses “local” churches, are local to their own vicinity; they are not a universal nor invisible church of all believers everywhere, because all believers everywhere are already the true church! Unless I’m missing something, I believe that’s what everybody on this board is saying as well. I haven’t seen anyone in this discussion define “the church” as the Roman Catholics define it. Yet, whenever someone posts what you just said, you claim they’re teaching “universal, invisible” church. We Southerners call that “arguing with a fencepost.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Rick Posted February 14, 2011 Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'm not sure what Irishman and Jerry believe when it comes to this. I think they both believe that all saved Christians are in the body of Christ, but refuse to admit that the body of Christ is the church. :smilie_loco:4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted February 14, 2011 Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 A universal, invisible church has no shepherd. A church must have a leader. Someone must step up and take the reins, and God has seen to it that it will be so. He provided men for the task; ... Psa 23:1 ¶ [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want. Hbr 13:20 ¶ Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. An invisible church has no authority: Again, who is the leader of the invisible church? Name him if you can. The Lord Jesus Christ. God has established authority, and set guidelines for us to follow within the confines of His will, but the universal church has no one to unify them, none to exercise authority over them. Eze 37:24 ¶ And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. We even have a Bible to guide us .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Rick Posted February 14, 2011 Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 Amen, Brother Ian! See, even a Preterist can get something right now and then! :icon_mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted February 14, 2011 Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 Amen WE once met a Frenchman who would not attend any church as he said churches in scripture always met in houses. He said he had been influenced by reading Darby's bible and notes. I believe that Darby produced his bible in French before his English one. This man told us of all the churches in the area, we were at Yvetot in Normandy at the time, and told us which were charismatic and which were not and the times their services began, but refused our offer to take him to one, because none met in homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted February 15, 2011 Members Share Posted February 15, 2011 No, the church Jesus is the head of is not an invisible church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members irishman Posted February 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2011 I find it strange that many people don't understand this--I have learned it in a Baptist Church! All my Christian life, I have been a Baptist (38 years), and Never have I heard so much about an invisible and ecumenical (universal) church. I find it quite amusing that so many do not understand that which I have made very clear; could it be that we tend to skip over and ignore that which we do no agree with? Or perhaps some are too proud to admit it after coming this far in the discussion. Please read my posts, and don't read anything into it that isn't there. Some feel that they have adequately answered my questions, but none have yet to do so; we all claim that that the Holy Spirit guides our churches; we all believe that Christ died for "the church"; we all believe in Christ as the Head of the Church, but that does not answer the question about who is the shepherd and who does the baptism, etc. I know the name of the shepherd of my church, do you know the name of the shepherd of the universal church? Please don't get all pious, and say "Christ" or "Jesus" because we all admit that, and that is not an answer to the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Annie Posted February 15, 2011 Members Share Posted February 15, 2011 I find it strange that many people don't understand this--I have learned it in a Baptist Church! All my Christian life, I have been a Baptist (38 years), and Never have I heard so much about an invisible and ecumenical (universal) church. I find it quite amusing that so many do not understand that which I have made very clear; could it be that we tend to skip over and ignore that which we do no agree with? Or perhaps some are too proud to admit it after coming this far in the discussion. Please read my posts, and don't read anything into it that isn't there. Some feel that they have adequately answered my questions, but none have yet to do so; we all claim that that the Holy Spirit guides our churches; we all believe that Christ died for "the church"; we all believe in Christ as the Head of the Church, but that does not answer the question about who is the shepherd and who does the baptism, etc. I know the name of the shepherd of my church, do you know the name of the shepherd of the universal church? Please don't get all pious, and say "Christ" or "Jesus" because we all admit that, and that is not an answer to the question. I am puzzled as to why this thread is still going on...I really don't see what you're getting hung up on, irishman. What is wrong with referring to the worldwide body of Christ as "the church" in a general sense? We have all acknowledged that this body exists, that it expresses itself locally in congregations of believers, that its head is Christ, that its "baptizer" is the Holy Spirit (as well as whatever church leaders perform physical baptism), and that its destination is heaven and the marriage supper of the Lamb. I really don't understand what problems anyone would have with these statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trc123 Posted February 15, 2011 Members Share Posted February 15, 2011 I am puzzled as to why this thread is still going on...I really don't see what you're getting hung up on, irishman. What is wrong with referring to the worldwide body of Christ as "the church" in a general sense? We have all acknowledged that this body exists, that it expresses itself locally in congregations of believers, that its head is Christ, that its "baptizer" is the Holy Spirit (as well as whatever church leaders perform physical baptism), and that its destination is heaven and the marriage supper of the Lamb. I really don't understand what problems anyone would have with these statements. OCD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 15, 2011 Members Share Posted February 15, 2011 OCD! I speak very little of this language. What is OCD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Rick Posted February 15, 2011 Members Share Posted February 15, 2011 Obsessive compulsive disorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 15, 2011 Members Share Posted February 15, 2011 Obsessive compulsive disorder. Thank you! That's much easier to understand. :icon_mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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