Wikileaks - Bradley Manning

[Invicta]

Why ask "where's the Christian compassion" when it's not Christian's holding him?

I do think this kind of treatment is inhumane, but we shouldn't expect the world to treat traitors kindly.

One man's traitor is another man's hero.

[Soj]

One man's traitor is another man's hero.

Yes, and let God be true, and every man a liar!

[Covenanter]

Soj:
Why ask "where's the Christian compassion" when it's not Christian's holding him?

Are non-Christians free to treat their captives without compassion ? Are you giving such licence to our military & the Muslim rulers ?

HC:
Folks need to remember that the author of this article published it on Salon - an extremely liberal website that is aimed at presenting an awful lot of misinformation to skew facts. Trust very little of what comes from them.

"Liberal websites" are not necessarily providing misinformation - unless, of course, you believe everything you see & hear on the media. For alternative news I recommend Reader Supported News. We all hear the regular news.

[HappyChristian]

"Liberal websites" are not necessarily providing misinformation - unless, of course, you believe everything you see & hear on the media. For alternative news I recommend Reader Supported News. We all hear the regular news.

You're quite right, and I never implied that liberal websites provide misinformation. I specifically named Salon, which Greenburg writes for. They do give misinformation and many times outright lies. And most of the people who swallow what Salon says do believe everything they see and hear on the news. Thanks for the recommendation - I'll have to check it out. Here are a couple more:

http://townhall.com/
http://www.newsmax.com/ (has many of the same writes as townhall)

Another really good one (I get the paper magazine - they have some real thought provoking articles like this one: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/256081/man-mustache-jay-nordlinger):
http://www.nationalreview.com/

[Invicta]

No we have a principle that you are innocent till proven guilty.

Those under suspicion can only be held for a limited time, and police have to take them before a court to extend that time. The time for terrorist susoects is longer, but I believe it is 28 days. But all suspects have to be treated humanely.

[1Timothy115]

No we have a principle that you are innocent till proven guilty.

Those under suspicion can only be held for a limited time, and police have to take them before a court to extend that time. The time for terrorist susoects is longer, but I believe it is 28 days. But all suspects have to be treated humanely.

This soldier falls under the jurisdiction of the UCMJ for law not the civilian court system or it's precedents.

MANUAL FOR COURTS-MARTIAL UNITED STATES (2008 EDITION)
Rule 304. Pretrial restraint
(a) Types of pretrial restraint. Pretrial restraint is moral or physical restraint on a person’s liberty which is imposed before and during disposition of offenses. Pretrial restraint may consist of conditions on liberty, restriction in lieu of arrest, arrest, or confinement.

(3) Arrest. Arrest is the restraint of a person by oral or written order not imposed as punishment, directing the person to remain within specified limits; a person in the status of arrest may not be required to perform full military duties such as commanding or supervising personnel, serving as guard, or bearing arms. The status of arrest automatically ends when the person is placed, by the authority who ordered the arrest or a superior authority, on duty inconsistent with the status of arrest, but this shall not prevent requiring the person arrested to do ordinary cleaning or policing, or to take part in routine
training and duties.

(4) Confinement.
Pretrial confinement is physical restraint, imposed by order of competent authority, depriving a person of freedom pending disposition of offenses.
See R.C.M. 305.

305(h)(2)( Requirements for confinement.
The commander shall direct the prisoner’s release from pretrial confinement unless the commander believes upon probable cause, that is , upon reasonable grounds, that:
(i) An offense triable by a court-martial has been committed;
(ii) The prisoner committed it; and
(iii) Confinement is necessary because it is foreseeable that:
(a) The prisoner will not appear at trial, pretrial hearing, or investigation, or
( b ) The prisoner will engage in serious criminal misconduct; and
(iv) Less severe forms of restraint are inadequate. Serious criminal misconduct includes intimidation of witnesses or other obstruction of justice, serious injury of others, or other offenses which pose a serious threat to the safety of the community or to the effectiveness, morale, discipline, readiness, or safety of the command, or to the national security of the United States. As used in this rule, “national security” means the national defense and foreign relations of the United States and specifically includes: a military or defense advantage over any foreign nation or group of nations; a favorable foreign
relations position; or a defense posture capable of successfully resisting hostile or destructive action from within or without, overt or covert.

R.C.M. 707(a) requires that the accused be brought to trial within 120 days of preferral of charges or imposition of restraint under R.C.M. 304(a)(2)-(4).

There are additional rules for extending the confinement based on requests from the defense or the prosecution, et al. I will not post them all here.

[DennisD]

I had it worse sleeping in a HuMVee in an Iraqi landfill where I had to eat my food within 30 secs or the flies would cover it en masse...that was in 100 degree weather with MOPP gear and armor on.

Many of you are just deciding that this is all true and haven't even allowed the possibility that 1) He is a spy and 2) He has a pillow to rest his wittle bitty head on. Poor guy that he doesn't have a pillow. You can work out in a solitary confinement room. Do some jumping jacks, push ups, dips, sit-ups...it's not hard. This "news" article is complete trash. This guy is a spy and a homosexual, he is living a wicked life. He needs the Gospel but he doesn't need a pillow and he needs to be in jail because he is a flight risk and I would venture to guess suicidal.

[DennisD]

Seems spokesman from the brig he is being held say he's being treated just as any other maximum security prisoner and is not being treated unduly harshly. Also, it seems he was charged in July 2010 so unsure where we are getting he is being held without being charged.

This was after a quick 30 sec google search. Pick your poison I suppose, believe a spokesman from the military or believe a journalist. Seems actual facts are pointed more towards the military spokesman's words and not the journalist though.

[DennisD]

In case you want a source (it's even MSNBC!)

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40947483/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

'Treated equally'
Villiard, the Quantico spokesman, denied that Manning is in "solitary confinement" and said his conditions are no different than the brig's other maximum custody detainees. All detainees at Quantico, like Manning, are either awaiting or undergoing trial.

"He lives in his own cell. He’s allowed to converse with other detainees if he chooses to do so," Villiard said, noting that the layout of the brig is such that detainees can hear but can't see each other.

"He is treated equally across the board as it relates to other detainees," Villiard said. "It’s a brig. I’m not a qualified person to talk about what is torture and what is not. It’s a military brig and it’s not being run any differently than any other military brig."

He said Manning receives "regular visits from both medical and psychological providers" to ensure his well-being.

The Washington Times reported Tuesday that the Army is assembling a special board to evaluate Manning's mental state.

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Robert Manning, no relation to Bradley Manning, told the newspaper that no further legal proceedings will happen until a recommendation is made on his fitness to stand trial.

Bradley Manning's supporters and rights advocates have urged citizens to contact Quantico and ask that the restrictions of the "prevention of injury" order be lifted.

Villiard said Quantico has received "a good number" of phone calls from concerned citizens about Manning. He said most of them are relieved when base officials explain that Manning is not being treated any differently than other detainees.

"There’s nothing going on here that the Marine Corps has any reason to be concerned about and there's no reason for the civilian community to be concerned about, either," Villiard said.

[HappyChristian]

No we have a principle that you are innocent till proven guilty.

Those under suspicion can only be held for a limited time, and police have to take them before a court to extend that time. The time for terrorist susoects is longer, but I believe it is 28 days. But all suspects have to be treated humanely.

As Dave so aptly pointed out, military doesn't fall under this. They are subject to military law - and they know this when they join. And who is to say what is humane. He gets fed. He gets to speak to people (in regular prisons, solitary means no contact with anyone at all!). He sees doctors. Pssh. That isn't inhumane. He's bragged about spilling secrets. He's a traitor to the country he swore to protect. He's a miserable young man who needs the Lord - but he isn't being inhumanely treated.

Thanks, Dennis, for posting that article. Most people don't understand the difference between regular civilians and military.

[chev1958]

My boot camp was tougher than Manning's treatment ...

[Bro Jim]

My boot camp was tougher than Manning's treatment ...

USMC Semper Fi

[Invicta]

As Dave so aptly pointed out, military doesn't fall under this. They are subject to military law - and they know this when they join. And who is to say what is humane. He gets fed. He gets to speak to people (in regular prisons, solitary means no contact with anyone at all!). He sees doctors. Pssh. That isn't inhumane. He's bragged about spilling secrets. He's a traitor to the country he swore to protect. He's a miserable young man who needs the Lord - but he isn't being inhumanely treated.

Thanks, Dennis, for posting that article. Most people don't understand the difference between regular civilians and military.

Presumably, military are also citizens?

[John81]

Presumably, military are also citizens?

Yes, they are citizens (hopefully!), but when one joins the military they sign away their Constitutional rights and subject themselves to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

[Alimantado]

Hi

Just want to add this remark because some postings here seem to imply that the guy deserves whatever treatment he is getting because he is a spy, a traitor and/or gay.

HappyChristian: "He's bragged about spilling secrets. He's a traitor to the country he swore to protect. "
DennisD: "This guy is a spy and a homosexual, he is living a wicked life."
Jerry Numbers: "...he has turned on the country he swore to protect, so of course it will be harsher on him than just a normal citizen."

This is back-to-front. A person should be punished after they are found guilty by trial, not before. If they are incarcerated before trial then it shouldn't represent some sort of pre-trial punishment as HappyChristian and others are implying. 1Tim115's post affirms this:

"The commander shall direct the prisoner’s release from pretrial confinement unless the commander believes upon probable cause, that is , upon reasonable grounds, that:
(i) An offense triable by a court-martial has been committed;
(ii) The prisoner committed it; and
(iii) Confinement is necessary because it is foreseeable that:
(a) The prisoner will not appear at trial, pretrial hearing, or investigation, or
( b ) The prisoner will engage in serious criminal misconduct; and
(iv) Less severe forms of restraint are inadequate."

In other words, lock them up before trial if there is a risk they otherwise might flee or commit more crimes. Nothing to do with punishing them. If the opposite were true, it would be ok to hang a person who had been accused of a capital offence before their trial!

Judge: "The session has started--where's the prisoner?"

Warder: "We hanged him, guv. He was accused of murder after all."