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no name joe

Is it possible to renounce salvation?

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I lost the post, but to the gentleman who espoused that Christians can reach a point of sinless perfection (what Nazarenes call the "second blessing"" but does not believe in eternal security may ask this.
First, let me restate your position and then I'll follow up with the question: You believe that a person can reach a position of sinless perfection subsequent to salvation; nevertheless at any point after this state of sinless perfection they can backslide and lose their salvation.
Now the question is, if you can attain a state of sinless perfection: HOW COULD YOU EVER BACKSLIDE?

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To answer the OP, there are many good arguments in here in defense of eternal security which I think adequately answered the question. Just to add one more. 2 Timonty 2:13 "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." The context of course, is that whether one believes or not, his belief or unbelief has no bearing on the faithfulness of Christ. And since Christ is unchangable, then this verse would still apply to the believer that even after his salvation, if at some point he became discouraged and possibly even angry at God, his unbelief at that moment would not change the status of his salvation. Now if he continued in a perpetual state of denouncement and unbelief, I would have to question whether the person was saved in the first place because John makes it clear that "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us:...." I John 2:19. Since it is God that works in us both to WILL and to DO (Phil 2:13), the will and drive that you have is the evidence of a genuine salvation (Eph 2:10, John 15:5), and the John also makes it clear that a child of God does not continue to practice in perpetual disobedience to Him (I John 3:6). A believer is never comfortable with sin. Whom God loves He chastens (Rev 3:19) and if you are living in sin and are never chastised, you are not a child of God (Heb 12:8)
So when askng a question about a person denouncing their faith, it would be necessary to view their salvation in context with the above expositions of Scripture.
On a side note: one thing that I find fascinating among critics of the Baptist position of eternal security is that they say we give them a license to sin, and then turn around and call us legalists for preaching too hard about sin LOL

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Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:1-6 (KJV) As it says, it is impossible to loose your salvation.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:27-31 (KJV) NOTE: they wanted to stone him........ Yes; eternal life and never perish seems easy to understand.

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And then will I profess unto them, I once knew you : depart from me, ye that work iniquity?? No, it says...

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:23

If He knew you at one time but you later renounced, "I never knew you" would be a lie.

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1 hour ago, VALK71 said:

You can lose it. I have noone to talk to about it cause i dont know what its called, but you can. 

Have you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ to save your wicked soul from God's judgement in Hell and, been indwelled with the Holy Spirit? If so, you cannot be lost: ever. Please read the following verse carefully.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

#1. If you possess(hath) everlasting life....it's "everlasting"

#2. "Shall not" means "condemnation" is never going to happen.

There are other verses but this one should be sufficient for now.


Edited by heartstrings

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Hey everyone! I know I’m about 10 years late, I just discovered this website and hope you’re all doing well! I know there can seem to be confusion in Hebrews 6:4-6, but thank God that He can not cause confusion in His Word! I think these verses are a perfect example of Judas Iscariot. We have to remember that Jesus gave power and authority to all his disciples, including Judas, and Jesus knew that Judas would never be saved but to fulfill the Scriptures as Judas being the son of perdition. We know that Jesus Christ was not the cause of Judas’ sin or evil doing, we believe full well that Judas brought these things upon himself alone. Judas walked with Jesus and His other disciples and Judas never had a change of heart even though the Lord gave him authority and holy power to cast out demons and heal the sick. Judas clearly had the power of the Holy Spirit working through him, but this does not mean Judas was born again or even saved. A genuine Christian, truly born of the Holy Spirit can not renounce their faith in Christ or fall away. If someone did fall away then it shows they were never saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit to begin with. The verse says that they were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, but never sealed by Him. Being a partaker is not the same as being sealed by the Holy Spirit of the true Living God. We shouldn’t forget, me included, that God is All Powerful and All Knowing that He can use whoever He wants to spread His kingdom, whether the person is saved or not. Yes, even God uses unsaved people to do His perfect will. I use to freak out every time I read this verse as well and would question my motives, which is not a bad thing at all, but we got to put these verses into context and look at examples in the Bible to confirm these truths. We know God is not the Author of confusion nor evil, but that His holy will is to be done, I’m sure we can all agree on that. It would never make sense for someone to claim to be a Christian and then renounce Christ as a conscious and public decision. That shows right there who they truly are, apostates, not Christians. Jesus said that a good tree can not produce bad fruit and a bad tree can not produce good fruit (Matthew 7:17-18). Someone who is sealed with the Holy Spirit can not renounce Christ. Someone who was never saved to begin with does not even have Christ in Him. John the apostle said that though they went out from us they were never really of us. If they were of us they would have stayed (1 John 2:19). That there says it all. As Christians we need to expect persecutions and tribulations. Those who were easily discouraged and renounced Christ for that reason did not have genuine repentance or even the faith as small as a mustard seed. They probably only came to Christ for the wrong reasons like having an ‘easy’ life, and not doing it because they came to the realization of their sins. Sure they heard the Word with joy (probably not true joy) but it doesn’t mean they were letting it sink into their hearts to take root. And still God is mighty to save and soften their hearts but they must respond to Him with child like faith. Having a life with Christ truly is 100% better than living a life with out Him and even if life gets hard we know One who is faithful and we can ask our Heavenly Father to help us in Jesus’ Name and He will do it! In a sense, life is hard in Christ but it is easier to have Him around even when life hits you hard. A true Christian will never in their hearts want to renounce Christ because they know, we know, He is the Way, Truth, and the Life as He declares with Truth. I could be wrong, but these verses might be talking about false teachers really. Thanks for having me share my thoughts and I’m glad to have read your responses as well! God bless you all!

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