Jump to content
Online Baptist

Is it possible to renounce salvation?


Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

How about calming down, 2Tim? Re-read the posts carefully and you'll see that there really isn't that much talk about someone who is in sin not really being saved. The plain fact of the matter is that there are people who are NOT saved, even though they profess to be, for whatever reason they might have. I re-read this thread, after you posted, just to see what was being said. And I have to say that none of the posters deserve being called arrogant - even those that state that there is a possibility of someone who rejects Christ was not truly saved. Because that is a very real possibility.

Remember that the Bible says that the devils believe and TREMBLE. Too often, we make salvation a light thing when presenting it (it is simple, but not light!), and a prayer is prayed, but the heart is not involved. And that person goes on to try and live what is perceived as the Christian life without the Holy Spirit power. All too often, when that happens, discouragement sets in and the person turns away - were they ever truly saved? No. They had the trappings, but not the power. That is a truth that cannot be denied by anyone that has been a Christian for very long.

That is not to say that a person who is truly saved can lose their salvation. Scripture is clear that they cannot. They can backslide, though, and will be miserable when they do...and it will seem to others that mayhap they never were saved. They may even think so, and "get saved" again later.

No-one condemned anyone in this thread...please don't accuse where there isn't accusatory reasons. Thanks.


I am not condemning anyone. I did not make any statements at specific persons but rather at the general underling doctrine believed by some. And I said "arrogant statements" - This does not imply arrogance onto the testator but onto the STATEMENT. - so if you want quotes here they are.


I know someone who was even baptized, but just because they say they are and go through the acts of being a Christian that does not mean they are actually saved. That is why Jesus said many will come to me, saying haven't I done this and this and He will respond, "Depart, I know you not!" He knows who are His from the second they begin to pray. - Jesus was not speaking to NT believers here

For someone to go from being saved to an atheist does not say much for their salvation to begin with, but only God knows if he was sincere in accepting him before he walked away from Him. If he was sincere when he got saved he will be in heaven.

Deep down they are angry, frustrated, and bitter, they blame God for their lives being a mess or whatever it is, but I tell you what when it all comes down to it, they will be thanking God for not casting them out like they cast Him out.



I do not believe one who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit will renounce his or her faith or belief in Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches us that the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, so I don't see how a believer can fall into apostasy to the point of denying Christ.

If one made a profession at some stage in life and years later walked away from the Christian faith and now lives the life of an atheist, I do not believe that profession resulted in possession. Their hearts were not truly changed though they had made a profession.



Once one is biblically saved the Holy Ghost seals them and indwells them and they are sons/daughters of God forever after.

Scripture has examples of those who appeared to be saved, acted saved and may have even thought they were saved, but their turning away was due to the fact they were never saved to begin with. None lost their salvation because they had never been saved to begin with.


Show me those scriptures that state that they made a "profession" of faith.


If you can lose your salvation...that means you are keeping it by works. (Because if your works are "bad", i.e. rejecting Christ, then your WORKS kept or lost your salvation).

So to believe you can renounce salvation is to believe in works salvation. So the question is, do you believe in grace or works salvation? God says plainly in Ephesians, its NOT of works...if it was works, we could boast. God saved us by grace through faith, NOT of ourselves. If we can choose to keep or reject our salvation, then it is not God, but us doing it.

It is likely that anyone who can fully reject Christ was never saved to begin with. Those saved have the Holy Spirit inside to bear witness with their spirit and those who would then be an atheist surely do not have the Holy Spirit inside. First John has a lot to say about those who would claim to be saved but then not have the spirit of Christ for real.


Many a saved believer has lost a loved one, been hurt, got cancer, etc etc and in anger and hurt "FULLY" rejected Christ in their hearts - this does not mean we have the right to judge them unsaved because we see the fruits from only a glimpse of there lives and not the whole story.

I feel very strongly about this trend amongst many IFB's to judge a person unsaved like they would a book by it's cover without even taking the time to read the story. We can judge sin in a believers life, there fruit or lack thereof, there doctrine but where in the Word does it say we can blithely take God's place as Savior and condemn people unsaved by our words?
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 122
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

1 John 3:2 (KJV) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. Hum

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are heresy! Calvinism teaches that if a person walks away from the faith and rejects Christianity they were not saved to begin with and Arminianism teaches that if a per

Have you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ to save your wicked soul from God's judgement in Hell and, been indwelled with the Holy Spirit? If so, you cannot be lost: ever. Please read the following ve

  • Lady Administrators

2Tim, I didn't need you to re-post anything...as I said, I re-read the thread. And there is nothing wrong with the statements that you highlighted. They didn't come from judgmental thoughts by the posters, nor assumptions based on glimpses of someone's life. What they stated was factual. There are people who claim the name of Christ but who are not truly saved.

As to the posts that you did quote: If you have a question about what they might have meant, ask them individually (specifically John with your question - or, rather, demand - about scripture [fwiw, it's always a good idea to require scriptural proof, imo - just, mayhap a bit nicer...]) Try reading the entire post...

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that someone who is truly saved will FULLY reject Christ. They might be hurt, angry, or bitter, but there will always be something (the Holy Spirit) inside them nudging them, even if it's minutely. I know a number of people like this. And I know of people who claimed the name of Christ, only to realize later that they were not saved. It does happen - that isn't book cover judging, it's fact.

And please note that I didn't say you condemned anyone...I said calm down. And I stand by that. Thank you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

If salvation was in your head, you could change your mind and reject, renounce the sprit. Sort of like Saul in the OT.
But if salvation is in your heart, a leopard cannot change its' spots, nor an Ethiopian his skin.

It is incorruptible seed. Not just mental thoughts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

2Tim, I didn't need you to re-post anything...as I said, I re-read the thread. And there is nothing wrong with the statements that you highlighted. They didn't come from judgmental thoughts by the posters, nor assumptions based on glimpses of someone's life. What they stated was factual. There are people who claim the name of Christ but who are not truly saved.

As to the posts that you did quote: If you have a question about what they might have meant, ask them individually (specifically John with your question - or, rather, demand - about scripture [fwiw, it's always a good idea to require scriptural proof, imo - just, mayhap a bit nicer...]) Try reading the entire post...

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that someone who is truly saved will FULLY reject Christ. They might be hurt, angry, or bitter, but there will always be something (the Holy Spirit) inside them nudging them, even if it's minutely. I know a number of people like this. And I know of people who claimed the name of Christ, only to realize later that they were not saved. It does happen - that isn't book cover judging, it's fact.

And please note that I didn't say you condemned anyone...I said calm down. And I stand by that. Thank you.


There is no reason for me to "calm down" when I am already calm. This is not the first time that I have seen this trend here nor I am sure the last. I stand by what I said and will every time I see this and I disagree with your statement - we will, can and are able to FULLY reject Christ even though saved and sealed with His Blood - the difference is HE will never reject us. Maybe we should stop looking to see if everyone else's profession of faith is REAL and look to our own.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

So in line with the thread - Yes we can renounce our salvation, but this in no way diminishes, takes away or nullifies our salvation as it from God and not from us! It's like an unbeliever trying to sell his soul to the devil - ridiculous!!!! The devil already owns their souls (Mat 12:30).
We are bought and paid for with a price -

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

These very verses imply that they did not glorify God and had to be chastised into doing so - all sin is the same in God's eyes so why would "renouncing" be any different? We are bought for and are not our own and even if we did renounce God we can not give up what is not ours to give. So again, yes we can in the emptiness and futility of our own strength but our "renunciation" means nothing against the Grace of Christ. Edited by 2Tim215
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators

Thought I was


You did, most definitely, with your last post. It was well presented - and supported some with scripture. I wasn't at all being sarcastic. I was seriously thanking you. My point was that your first post was incendiary. The last one wasn't, but it said quite a bit of good stuff.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

Matthew 7 reveals that there will be many that stand before Christ pleading with Him because of the many things they did for Him in life. And He will profess to them, "I never knew you."

He doesn't say, "I knew you, but you decided not to follow me any more." He emphatically tells them, "I 'NEVER' knew you."

Yes, it is sad that there are going to be many who made a profession of faith in life, went to Church, put money in the offering plates, gave to missions, fed visiting missionaries and evangelists, and a whole slew of other 'wonderful works' who never truly were saved in the first place.

They were able to fool the pastors, the missionaries, the evangelists, the teachers, their parents, their children... and even managed to fool themselves with thoughts of "I'm as good as the next guy," or "I'm better than him."

Yet they never once fooled Jesus Christ. Jesus knows the heart of man, how it is deceitful above all others and desperately wicked. Unless that heart experiences a change that is done by the work of the Holy Spirit, that person's faith and wonderful works are all in vain.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

If salvation was in your head, you could change your mind and reject, renounce the sprit. Sort of like Saul in the OT.
But if salvation is in your heart, a leopard cannot change its' spots, nor an Ethiopian his skin.

It is incorruptible seed. Not just mental thoughts.


Yet, the vilest sinner can be saved & changed by Christ.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

Not necessarily, Trell.

The Gospels have parable in which it is explained that the seed is the Word. In that parable, some receive the seed with joy, but when cares arise because the seed is unable to take root the seed is rejected.

Seed from God does not always make a person a child of God, else Stephen would have seen the angry crowd converted in Acts.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

1Pe 1:23

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I understand the sower and the seed parable. A parable has always has a limited application. The church, with the seed planted within, saved for all eternity, began on Pentecost.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Matthew 7 reveals that there will be many that stand before Christ pleading with Him because of the many things they did for Him in life. And He will profess to them, "I never knew you."

He doesn't say, "I knew you, but you decided not to follow me any more." He emphatically tells them, "I 'NEVER' knew you."

Yes, it is sad that there are going to be many who made a profession of faith in life, went to Church, put money in the offering plates, gave to missions, fed visiting missionaries and evangelists, and a whole slew of other 'wonderful works' who never truly were saved in the first place.

They were able to fool the pastors, the missionaries, the evangelists, the teachers, their parents, their children... and even managed to fool themselves with thoughts of "I'm as good as the next guy," or "I'm better than him."

Yet they never once fooled Jesus Christ. Jesus knows the heart of man, how it is deceitful above all others and desperately wicked. Unless that heart experiences a change that is done by the work of the Holy Spirit, that person's faith and wonderful works are all in vain.

That's very true but it's not popular to talk about it!

There are many true Christians out there who spent much of their lives beliving they were Christians serving God, heading for heaven, only to one day actually hear the Gospel, respond and be born again. They then look back and realize if they had died at any time prior to that they would have found themselves in hell. Many of these people share their testimonies but it seems few actually listen.

It really saddens me to think of all the folks who sincerely think they are right with God, but they are sincerely wrong and will spend eternity in hell unless they are biblically born again before they die.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Sadly, most only are taught to have faith in God and that they can enter a contract of eternal life on their terms.

God has already set the guidelines in His Holy Word, if we will have life we must agree to His terms instead of expecting Him to conform to ours.

Amen!

Scripture is also clear that if we are truly saved there will be change in our hearts and lives. Too many preach that one can be saved and act like the devil. Scripture declares otherwise. Scripture teaches that if we are born again in Christ we ARE new creatures. Scripture also says the fruit in our lives will bear this out and we will strive to pursue living according the Word, walking in the Spirit, not in our flesh.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

Amen!

Scripture is also clear that if we are truly saved there will be change in our hearts and lives. Too many preach that one can be saved and act like the devil. Scripture declares otherwise. Scripture teaches that if we are born again in Christ we ARE new creatures. Scripture also says the fruit in our lives will bear this out and we will strive to pursue living according the Word, walking in the Spirit, not in our flesh.
And another hearty Amen! to that.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist


Amen!

Scripture is also clear that if we are truly saved there will be change in our hearts and lives. Too many preach that one can be saved and act like the devil. Scripture declares otherwise. Scripture teaches that if we are born again in Christ we ARE new creatures. Scripture also says the fruit in our lives will bear this out and we will strive to pursue living according the Word, walking in the Spirit, not in our flesh.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaamen!
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Jerry,
I was quoting Jeremiah in relation to seed. The seed determines what it is. Seed from God makes a person a child of God.


No, its all about GRACE, it matters not whose seed you come from. It matters not who your father is, your grand father, nor great grand father, God has no grand children, no great grand children, only children.


Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Yet, there's many that believe if thier father & mother were members of a church, & called their self Christian, that makes them Christian too, but thye only have a false hope of heaven.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Sadly, most only are taught to have faith in God and that they can enter a contract of eternal life on their terms.

God has already set the guidelines in His Holy Word, if we will have life we must agree to His terms instead of expecting Him to conform to ours.


That is so true, many do put God , {they try to but it never works}, under their very own terms, & never meet Him in under the conditions He has set up.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

1Pe 1:23

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I understand the sower and the seed parable. A parable has always has a limited application. The church, with the seed planted within, saved for all eternity, began on Pentecost.


Trell is 100% right - the incorruptible seed spoken of in 1 Pet 1 is The Word preached to the CHURCH - that being Jesus Christ crucified and risen from the dead - salvation through grace. This is not the same seed spoken of in the parable - that was the LAW - Jesus was speaking to JEWS not the church as He was in MATHEW 7 that so many of you like to quote when stating that people can profess salvation and not be saved. Mat 7 has NOTHING to do with the church and those saved by grace! It's easy to take bible out of context to justify a personal opinion.

Yes there are many "Christians" that are not saved, but there are just as many believers who are saved that live in continual sin through personal disobedience that WILL see eternity in heaven - it's NOT just a few hardcore IFB's that will be in heaven!! I am not pointing fingers here, but don't you think that our message would be better believed if we behaved as He did with charity as he did with the tax collectors and the whores and the "dogs" at the well - SINNERS all. DO you think that statements like "look at that "believer" sinning - was probably never saved to start with!" does any good to the message of servitude, humility, sacrifice, grace, love and charity that Jesus and His disciples AND Paul preached? Does it portray us as one of His own?

It is impossible for us to renounce salvation as it it wasn't ours in the first place but we can, will and often do renounce God and isn't that the same thing? He is after all the AUTHOR of our salvation. Lets not forget Peter (Mat 26:69-75) or was he not saved in the first place either? I am reasonably sure that there was a IFB or two there that snickered and whispered "probably not saved in the first place" while they sat fat and content in the surety of their "sound doctrine" and ignored the agony of their own brothers and sisters struggle with daily sin because they were too "clean" to get dirty for Christ!! Edited by 2Tim215
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

Nope, Peter was not saved at the time he denied our Lord.

Note that just prior to the crucifixion Jesus told Peter:

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Peter had not been converted yet.

Luke 22:33-34 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Valid point. I agree. Peter wasn't saved under grace after the cross. But he was definitely under the "grace" of Christ. He "renounced" Christ three times and when the cock crowed he wept bitterly - Repentance? Remorse? What makes his sin any different to that of Judas - they both betrayed Christ in there own way. Both were warned that they would. Both "repented". Why is Peter's repentance recognized and Judases not? So were all the disciples except one under the grace of the Living Christ until there conversion at Pentecost? I believe so and I say this because of this:

Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.


This proves that they were "clean" in the eyes of Christ - all except Judas as we know. Like I keep on saying it is possible for a "christian" to not be saved (Judas) but it is also possible for a BELIEVER to live in sin, reject and renounce Christ and still be saved. It's upon Him and not us that we are saved and stay saved.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

2 Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Judas' repentance was not toward God....he was "remorseful"...."sorry I got caught" and took the coward's way out and hung himself.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Matthew 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

Matthew 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Peter's repentance was toward God.

Matthew 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The footwashing was not an act to show that the Apostles were under grace. That was a physical washing of the feet.

If foot washing assured one that they fell under the grace of God, then there's not a man, woman or child on this planet who doesn't fit that category.


I didn't say footwashing represented that they were under grace HIS statement did so I will highlight it again:

Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Jerry:

I must not be communicating clearly, or we see things vastly differently.

As concerns your physical seed, it matters not who you come from. Anyone can be saved by grace. Or be condemned by unbelief.

As concerns the spiritual seed (which you get when saved by grace), that is God in Christ in you, the hope of glory. That seed, spiritually, which God places within you, does not allow you to lose your eternal life.

Thus my reference to Jeremiah. When a person is saved, a seed is planted by God. You cannot renounce everlasting life, because the seed is there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

How about going about it this way, it works much better, & the proof is quite clear, to those that believe the holy Bible is God's true Word.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Ti 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

I will say, you have a strange way of trying to prove it, its not though seed, who your birth parents, At the moment a person is saved they are sealed by God's Holy Spirit, plus of course God's promise in 2 Timothy 1:12.

Plus:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

After one has been saved, no one, not even our self, can pluck ourself out of the hand of God.

Plus;

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Jesus made a promise, if we once believed, He will stay faithful.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That once a person has been saved, that person is not condemned, if they were, he would be denying the promise He openly made.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

When the cock crowed. Peter verbally denied Jesus not only once, but three times., But Peter was lying; In his heart it was a different story as the Bible attests, because he went out and wept bitterly afterwards. The Bible also says that it is possible for a man to "forget that he was purged from his old sins". Our flesh, our old nature, still is at enmity with God. It is not subject to the law of God, it wars against the Spirit. But that Spirit, that inner man CANNOT deny God. It is totally impossible. We are indwelled with the Holy Spirit of the Almighty King of Glory and He cannot deny Himself. We can feed our flesh until we sink so deep in unbelief, we will doubt our salvation. But that is a miserable place to be, I've been there and got the T-shirt. I have been in unbelief; but in remembering how POWERFUL and how sweet it was when I first believed I just don't see how I could ever completely denounce God and His salvation.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

As we can see, God knows if we are really His, even if we forget ourselves. And we can also see that even false teachers also have the ability to overthrow our faith, if we give ear to their lies. Imagine believing on Jesus with all your heart, but later believing someone when they tell you that Jesus already came and left you behind, that would be pretty scarey I would think. We can be duped by liars too if we don't stay in the Word, and depart from initquity.

Edited by heartstrings
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

When the cock crowed. Peter verbally denied Jesus not only once, but three times., But Peter was lying; In his heart it was a different story as the Bible attests, because he went out and wept bitterly afterwards. The Bible also says that it is possible for a man to "forget that he was purged from his old sins". Our flesh, our old nature, still is at enmity with God. It is not subject to the law of God, it wars against the Spirit. But that Spirit, that inner man CANNOT deny God. It is totally impossible. We are indwelled with the Holy Spirit of the Almighty King of Glory and He cannot deny Himself. We can feed our flesh until we sink so deep in unbelief, we will doubt our salvation. But that is a miserable place to be, I've been there and got the T-shirt. I have been in unbelief; but in remembering how POWERFUL and how sweet it was when I first believed I just don't see how I could ever completely denounce God and His salvation.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

As we can see, God knows if we are really His, even if we forget ourselves. And we can also see that even false teachers also have the ability to overthrow our faith, if we give ear to their lies. Imagine believing on Jesus with all your heart, but later believing someone when they tell you that Jesus already came and left you behind, that would be pretty scarey I would think. We can be duped by liars too if we don't stay in the Word, and depart from initquity.


I think your saying Peter was not lost, I don't believe he was either. He was in a strait, lots of confusion inside, & he even left the ministry, & several other left with him. But later Jesus goes to him & the others, & Peter, & the other reconcile, they got it together, after this, Peter was fully perpared, & he preached the famous sermon on the day of Pentecost, & it seems he was a faithful to Jesus even unto his death.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

If Peter, or anyone else, could be saved with eternal life as we know it before the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and the day of Pentecost, then the church of the body began before Pentecost? And Romans 10:9,10 did not apply to those people?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

If Peter, or anyone else, could be saved with eternal life as we know it before the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and the day of Pentecost, then the church of the body began before Pentecost? And Romans 10:9,10 did not apply to those people?


Agreed, but we forget John 17 and I reiterate my point that Peter and the other 10 disciples were protected until there conversion at Pentecost. They may not have been "saved" by the Blood, but they were definitely saved from falling away and protected by God. As good as saved IMHO. Possibly a "special dispensation" or "covenant" specifically for them.

John 17: 1-19 KJV

Jesus Prays to Be Glorified
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Every believer from Adam, to Abel, to Enoch, Noah, Abraham etc. was saved by grace through faith. Jesus is the Word who spoke the Worlds into existence, He is the I Am who spoke to Moses from the burning bush, he is the Son of God who walked with the three Hebrew children in the fiery furnace, He is the "My Lord" whose enemies the Psalmist David declared would, sit at his footstool. He is the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega. He is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". Old Testament beleivers look forward To the cross whereas WE look backward to it. He was ALREADY slain from the foundation of the world, the Bible says, but He was slain physically at the cross ca 2000 years ago. The day that Peter declare "thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" he was already a believer. The Bible says in John chapter 1 "even to them that believe on his name". Believers were calling on "his name" way back in Genesis 4.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 25 Guests (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...