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Is it possible to renounce salvation?


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Let us say I am an unbeliever (which some of you may well believe now), and someone is witnessing to me...

They tell me about eternal security. I say 'Show me'. They show me all those wonderful verses in God's word that Jerry shared. I say, 'But I don't see eternal security. Where is that? Can you show me those words?' They can't.

The same can be said for rapture. And trinity. And many others.

I am not quibbling over small things. This is not playing with words, or semantics. When we are talking about God's words, giving doctrine to people, should not we use God's words?

As for your Grandfather, Standing Firm...I am not suggesting in our speech we only use words found in the scriptures. I think I would just call him Grandfather.


Your quibbling, whether you know it or not.
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  • 2 weeks later...
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Yes you can renounce it but it doesn't matter. You are still going to heaven. He'll deny us reigning with him but he won't deny us as his flesh and bone.

2 Tim.2:11-13

[11] It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Edited by Wilchbla
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Yes you can renounce it but it doesn't matter. You are still going to heaven. He'll deny us reigning with him but he won't deny us as his flesh and bone.

2 Tim.2:11-13

[11] It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.


Well said!
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  • 3 months later...
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Yes you can renounce it but it doesn't matter. You are still going to heaven. He'll deny us reigning with him but he won't deny us as his flesh and bone.

2 Tim.2:11-13

[11] It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.


I'm not new to the idea of eternal security, but let me get this straight. Are you saying that if a person genuinely professes faith in Christ, yet at some later point renounces, or de-converts, that person is still actually saved? What I understand you to be saying is this person is still saved and will go to heaven, but that person's status in heaven is less than it would otherwise be. Am I understanding you correctly? I'm not in any way attempting to argue...I honestly want to be sure I understand what you are saying.
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I'm not new to the idea of eternal security, but let me get this straight. Are you saying that if a person genuinely professes faith in Christ, yet at some later point renounces, or de-converts, that person is still actually saved? What I understand you to be saying is this person is still saved and will go to heaven, but that person's status in heaven is less than it would otherwise be. Am I understanding you correctly? I'm not in any way attempting to argue...I honestly want to be sure I understand what you are saying.


What does the passage of scripture say? If we believe not he abides faithful. He cannot deny himself. If we are flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone then we are part of him. If he was to deny us in essence he'd be denying himself. The gifts and calling of God is without repentance.
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Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What does the verse say?

One says believer & have eternal life.

The other one says believe & have everlasting life.

If you could in any manner lose it, denounce it, it would not be eternal life, everlasting life.

So why not just believe what the Bible says?

And in this verse.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

And once again, why not believe what the verses says? He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life! again, if it could in any manner be lost, it would not be everlasting life.

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Are you saying that if a person genuinely professes faith in Christ, yet at some later point renounces, or de-converts, that person is still actually saved?


They were likely never born again scripturally in the first place.

See Hebrews 6:4-6

For further reading:

http://www.baptistchallenge.org/challenge/02dectbc.pdf
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I lost the post, but to the gentleman who espoused that Christians can reach a point of sinless perfection (what Nazarenes call the "second blessing"" but does not believe in eternal security may ask this.
First, let me restate your position and then I'll follow up with the question: You believe that a person can reach a position of sinless perfection subsequent to salvation; nevertheless at any point after this state of sinless perfection they can backslide and lose their salvation.
Now the question is, if you can attain a state of sinless perfection: HOW COULD YOU EVER BACKSLIDE?

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To answer the OP, there are many good arguments in here in defense of eternal security which I think adequately answered the question. Just to add one more. 2 Timonty 2:13 "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." The context of course, is that whether one believes or not, his belief or unbelief has no bearing on the faithfulness of Christ. And since Christ is unchangable, then this verse would still apply to the believer that even after his salvation, if at some point he became discouraged and possibly even angry at God, his unbelief at that moment would not change the status of his salvation. Now if he continued in a perpetual state of denouncement and unbelief, I would have to question whether the person was saved in the first place because John makes it clear that "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us:...." I John 2:19. Since it is God that works in us both to WILL and to DO (Phil 2:13), the will and drive that you have is the evidence of a genuine salvation (Eph 2:10, John 15:5), and the John also makes it clear that a child of God does not continue to practice in perpetual disobedience to Him (I John 3:6). A believer is never comfortable with sin. Whom God loves He chastens (Rev 3:19) and if you are living in sin and are never chastised, you are not a child of God (Heb 12:8)
So when askng a question about a person denouncing their faith, it would be necessary to view their salvation in context with the above expositions of Scripture.
On a side note: one thing that I find fascinating among critics of the Baptist position of eternal security is that they say we give them a license to sin, and then turn around and call us legalists for preaching too hard about sin LOL

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Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:1-6 (KJV) As it says, it is impossible to loose your salvation.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:27-31 (KJV) NOTE: they wanted to stone him........ Yes; eternal life and never perish seems easy to understand.

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And then will I profess unto them, I once knew you : depart from me, ye that work iniquity?? No, it says...

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:23

If He knew you at one time but you later renounced, "I never knew you" would be a lie.

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