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Sometimes It's Heaven, Sometimes It's Hell


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John did not say "if we say we are not wicked..."
God no longer sees us as wicked who are Christ's.


So you're basing this whole elaborate doctrine the difference between being a sinner who's saved and being wicked and saved? If you stretch it any further it's ganna snap and put someone's eye out!

Still waiting for the explanation on the Romans verses, that clearly teach the doctine of the Age of Accountability.

Eighth time.
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A crazy teenage Fundamentalist's thoughts.

1. We all are sinners by nature and choice. We all agree to this. The Bible teaches this.

2. There's not really an age of accountability hinted at in the Bible.

3. About the only reference to matters such as this is the story of David and Bathsheba; that is, their son dying. David says he will go to him. What does this mean? It could just mean he will also die and be buried, but that seems unlikely. Now, before Christ was resurrected, everyone went to Sheol - the place of the dead. One side was for the unrighteous, unsaved, one side was for the righteous, saved (see the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus). OBviously, David would not be going to the place of the wicked. All souls must go somewhere, so it logically follows, assuming David comforted himself with these words, that the child went to Abraham's Bosom, as it is called (again, see the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus).

4. To say children can believe/sin seems a bit of a...stretch. No doubt, we have heard of children being saved even at three years of age, but infants? One month, two months? There doesn't seem to really be any Scriptural support for that.

5. This has been mentioned, but I will say it again: God is perfect, holy, and just in all things, so we need not worry.

Feliz Navidad!
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

Psalm 58:3 seems to say that there are infants born wicked. When those wicked die? Will God allow the wicked into Heaven? Not according to His Perfect Word.

There are four verses in the Bible where heaven and wicked are mentioned in the same verse. One of which is in your signature. Note that it says they must turn from their wicked ways before God will hear them Not one of those verses, nor their context, show the wicked received into heaven. Proverbs contrasts the wicked with the righteous. It is the Righteous who are accepted of God... but not of their own righteousness. They must be clothed in God's righteousness. The wicked are said to be consumed in God's wrath and cast into hell..

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

God's Word tells us the wicked will be turned into hell. We cannot justify the wicked... even if it is shown to be an infant.
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So you're basing this whole elaborate doctrine the difference between being a sinner who's saved and being wicked and saved? If you stretch it any further it's ganna snap and put someone's eye out!

Still waiting for the explanation on the Romans verses, that clearly teach the doctine of the Age of Accountability.

Eighth time.


Calm down brother. :icon_mrgreen:

Once saved, we are no longer wicked. We are righteous in the eyes of God. We can, and do, still sin, but we are no longer wicked.

I don't see how those verses in Romans teach an age of accountability. Those same verses have been used to proclaim that had God not revealed His law to us, there would be no penalty for sin. In this, they point out God's law for Adam and Eve was very limited, yet they knew it. From that time forward man has known of the law so man has been under the penalty of the law. From this understanding, those verses have nothing to do with an age of accountability, but shows that we have no excuse before God, no grounds to expect that our sins won't count against us.

Some folks, for various reasons, never reach an "age of accountability".

Scripture doesn't tell us what becomes of babies and young children who die. However, Scripture does tell us enough of the charactor of God to know whatever He does with them is the right thing and that none of us know better than God regardless of what He does.
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Psalm 58:3 seems to say that there are infants born wicked. When those wicked die? Will God allow the wicked into Heaven? Not according to His Perfect Word.

There are four verses in the Bible where heaven and wicked are mentioned in the same verse. One of which is in your signature. Note that it says they must turn from their wicked ways before God will hear them Not one of those verses, nor their context, show the wicked received into heaven. Proverbs contrasts the wicked with the righteous. It is the Righteous who are accepted of God... but not of their own righteousness. They must be clothed in God's righteousness. The wicked are said to be consumed in God's wrath and cast into hell..

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

God's Word tells us the wicked will be turned into hell. We cannot justify the wicked... even if it is shown to be an infant.


You are basing your entire theology on Psalm 58.3, which is poetry. It is not written literally. It is figurative language written by David expressing his raw emotions about the wickedness of his enemies.

Babies are in no way, shape or form wicked,. A god who sees infants as wicked is not a God I want to serve. Babies are a gift from God. They are innocent and pure. They have a sin nature, but they have no knowledge of sin. They cannot unerstand or comprehend.

As I said, if the grace of God through Christ cannot bring salvation to a baby, then there is no hope for any of us. What do you say about Romans where Paul writes that those who have no knowledge of Christ can have salvation if they follow what God has revealed to them? Babies have no way of knowing and udnerstanding sin and Christ. God will hold them responsible for what they know...and that is nothing...they will be seen as blameless and pure before God.

May God remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
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Calm down brother. :icon_mrgreen:

Once saved, we are no longer wicked. We are righteous in the eyes of God. We can, and do, still sin, but we are no longer wicked.

I don't see how those verses in Romans teach an age of accountability.


They clearly teach it. One verse says that sin is not imputed when there is no law, and the other verse talks about Paul being alive once, and dying once the commandment came and sin revived in him. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute sin. God doesn't impute sin to babies. There is a law written in the heart of every man, and there is a time before that law is written. In understand that technically Jer. 31:33 is a reference to the New Covenant, but the idea of a law in the heart remains the same.

Rom. 7:9, “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.”
Rom. 5:13, “For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Jer. 31:33, "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

So we sin, but we're not sinners? The difference between being a sinner and being wicked is very subjective. We're not sinners in God's eyes, but it doesn't change the fact that we are still sinners - our sins just aren't imputed to us, just like babies.

I can't believe you'd even entertain the idea that God throws babies into Hell. This is ridiculous. Where do babies go to Hell in the Bible? Where do babies acknowledge that they're a sinner in need of a Saviour.... before learning to crawl or even smile? If a baby dies, according to SFIC, there's a good reason to believe it’s because of its own sin and rejection of Christ (no Bible). What a great comfort to ladies who've had miscarriages or had preemies die! Wow! Edited by Rick Schworer
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I can't believe you'd even entertain the idea that God throws babies into Hell. This is ridiculous. Where do babies go to Hell in the Bible? Where do babies acknowledge that they're a sinner in need of a Saviour.... before learning to crawl or even smile? If a baby dies, according to SFIC, there's a good reason to believe it’s because of its own sin and rejection of Christ (no Bible). What a great comfort to ladies who've had miscarriages or had preemies die! Wow!


Talk about taking leaps! I never said I entertained anything other than that I trust God.


What great comfort do ladies have when their lost 16 year old son dies in a car crash or their lost 19 year old son dies of a drug overdose or their lost 32 year old son is killed in combat?

Our comfort is in the Lord whether we understand everything or not; whether we like what happens or not, whether we agree or not.
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"I trust God" and "Our comfort is in the Lord" is easy to say but where the rubber meets the road is knowing the truth about what happened to those children and where they are. One of my best friends lost two babies before they were both three months old out of the womb and I know several ladies who've had miscarriages.

I Thess. 4 tells us to comfort one another with the fact that we can know we'll see them again in the resurrection.

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You are basing your entire theology on Psalm 58.3, which is poetry. It is not written literally. It is figurative language written by David expressing his raw emotions about the wickedness of his enemies.

Babies are in no way, shape or form wicked,. A god who sees infants as wicked is not a God I want to serve. Babies are a gift from God. They are innocent and pure. They have a sin nature, but they have no knowledge of sin. They cannot unerstand or comprehend.

As I said, if the grace of God through Christ cannot bring salvation to a baby, then there is no hope for any of us. What do you say about Romans where Paul writes that those who have no knowledge of Christ can have salvation if they follow what God has revealed to them? Babies have no way of knowing and udnerstanding sin and Christ. God will hold them responsible for what they know...and that is nothing...they will be seen as blameless and pure before God.

May God remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is no Salvation outside of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus said in John 12 that if He was lifted up from the earth He would draw all men unto Himself. He was lifted up. All men does not just mean all men, it means all mankind... infant and adult alike are part of all mankind.

Jesus said he that believeth not is condemned already in John 3:18, and John said that he that believeth not shall not see life.

There is no life apart from believing in Christ. There is no other way to be saved. All must come to Christ in faith or die without Him. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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"I trust God" and "Our comfort is in the Lord" is easy to say but where the rubber meets the road is knowing the truth about what happened to those children and where they are. One of my best friends lost two babies before they were both three months old out of the womb and I know several ladies who've had miscarriages.

I Thess. 4 tells us to comfort one another with the fact that we can know we'll see them again in the resurrection.


The truth is, Scripture doesn't tell us what becomes of babies or children who die. It should be comforting enough for all of us to know that God will deal with everyone justly. My Mom had twins die at birth and a daughter that died shortly after birth. I trust the Lord has and will do justly with my brother and sisters.

First Thess. 4 isn't dealing with babies and children but with the born again in Christ.
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What age will folks in heaven and hell be? Will they be the age they were when they died? Will they somehow be transformed to another age at translation?

Will heaven be filled with babies who remain babies eternally? Will babies suddenly become adults and be received into heaven with those who trusted in Christ though they never did?

Do we know from Scripture the answers to these questions?

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What age will folks in heaven and hell be? Will they be the age they were when they died? Will they somehow be transformed to another age at translation?

Will heaven be filled with babies who remain babies eternally? Will babies suddenly become adults and be received into heaven with those who trusted in Christ though they never did?

Do we know from Scripture the answers to these questions?

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I have often thought of that. Paul seems to state here that we will not change as far as appearance. We will know as we were known. I believe the mother will know her child and the child his mother. Aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, neighbors, friends, family... we will somehow know them.

I met a preacher some time back and attended many of his meetings. Now, I have not seen him in several years and it is my understanding that his appearance has changed. Yet, somehow I will know him if he is saved and enters heaven. I believe he is saved. His fruits certainly are good

But what of the child who died when this minister was younger. That child saw a young man, I saw an older balding man. Now the man is even more changed. Yet, somehow he will be recognized.
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"I trust God" and "Our comfort is in the Lord" is easy to say but where the rubber meets the road is knowing the truth about what happened to those children and where they are. One of my best friends lost two babies before they were both three months old out of the womb and I know several ladies who've had miscarriages.

I Thess. 4 tells us to comfort one another with the fact that we can know we'll see them again in the resurrection.


I do not believe you will change his mind.

As for me, its clear, God does not hold the infants accountable, until they are of a age that can grasp the meaning of being lost, He decides that age, not us, that they are sinners, that there is a penalty for sin, and that Christ paid this penalty by dying on the cross for us, by accepting Christ as Savior their sin will not be imputed unto them.
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I do not believe you will change his mind.

As for me, its clear, God does not hold the infants accountable, until they are of a age that can grasp the meaning of being lost, He decides that age, not us, that they are sinners, that there is a penalty for sin, and that Christ paid this penalty by dying on the cross for us, by accepting Christ as Savior their sin will not be imputed unto them.

So, explain what kind of love is decreeing that infants (who according to most, are incapable of sinning) would be dashed to pieces? Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Ezekiel 9 gives another account of God giving the command to destroy infants along with the old. An interesting not is God 's telling a man with an inkhorn to set marks on those who cry aloud because of the abominations that are being committed. He tells those with weapons to kill all, both utterly old and young maidens and young children. But the men who were godly, (those with the marks) were not to be killed.

We see a similar event during the tribulation, when 144,000 servants of God are sealed and then the command is given to destroy nothing green, nor any who have the seal of God.

I again have to believe the infants in Ezekiel 9 were guilty of committing sin because God had already said that children were not to be put to death for the sins of their fathers.

(NOTE: While the events in Ezekiel 9 were a vision, they were a vision of events that would eventually take place)

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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