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They saw the kingdom of God with it's King via the transfiguration. The kingdom of God (millenial kingdom) was often pictured as a mountain in the OT. "The mountain of the Lord's house", the "holy hill", "cut out of a mountain without hands", "mountain of his holiness", etc .

I won't argue with that, except to point out that the millennial kingdom began with Christ's resurrection & ascension, & was established on earth at Pentecost.


Moses represented the law and Elijah the prophets.

Again, I will not disagree. They represent the supreme authority under the old covenant as revealed in the OT Scriptures. Likewise the 2 witnesses in Rev. 11 - God's last word to the nation of Israel.

Note the speculation in the preceding context: Mar 8:27 ¶ And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am?
28 And they answered, John the Baptist: but some [say], Elias; and others, One of the prophets.
29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

The transfiguration ends the speculation, & confirms the revelation to Peter - Jesus is the Christ. The Father confirms that Jesus is the last word: This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Then in Luke we have the warning:Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Sadly they did not, & the kingdom was taken from them.


Also, Moses could have represented those who enter the kingdom through death and Elijah represented those who entered the kingdom through translation (rapture). Therefore the disciples saw the kingdom of God in TYPE.

Pure speculation. We must be guided by Scripture.

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After the last two responses to my post I'm amazed that this site is even considered IFB anymore. What a pathetic mess. ICHABOD.

Wilchbla, why do you think that Christ had to be referring to "the millennial kingdom" in Mark 9:1? And why can't a person be IFB and disagree with that opinion?

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After the last two responses to my post I'm amazed that this site is even considered IFB anymore. What a pathetic mess. ICHABOD.




We've got several here that are not Baptist, that are not the least bit Baptist inclined. There was a topic about unity recently started, that said we were in unity here. Sorry, but when you've got a forum made up of different denominations, there is no unity.

Yet I'll give the benefit of doubt, some may not know what the word unity means.

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Mark 9:1 reads, And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." What was Jesus speaking of here?


Jesus is speaking of the transfiguration days later, when Peter, John and James were with him.

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Jesus is speaking of the transfiguration days later, when Peter, John and James were with him.


How do you justify such an argument? What did Christ say? He said that there were those standing there who would not taste of death until they had see the kingdom of God come with power. Did the kingdom come with power on the mount of transfiguration?

Clearly, He was speaking of the establishment of the kingdom/body/church which was established on the day of Pent. in Acts 2.

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How do you justify such an argument? What did Christ say? He said that there were those standing there who would not taste of death until they had see the kingdom of God come with power. Did the kingdom come with power on the mount of transfiguration?

Clearly, He was speaking of the establishment of the kingdom/body/church which was established on the day of Pent. in Acts 2.


When did the Son of man come in his Kingdom on the day pentecost read Matthew 16:28.

28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Is it just a coincident that six days or eight days later Jesus was with Peter, John and James on the mount. If you read it in Matthew 16, Mark 9 and Luke 9 you will see the Glory and the Power , the overshadowed cloud and Jesus Christ in it along with Elias and Moses and the voice of the Father.
It is correct that Moses was dead right? And that Elias was caught up in a whirlwind? Where were these two the whole time? Where they not already in the Kingdom of God with God? Jesus went to the mount and entered into glory with these other two men. Peter even asked if they should build three tabernacles. It must have been quite a sight.

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How do you justify such an argument? What did Christ say? He said that there were those standing there who would not taste of death until they had see the kingdom of God come with power. Did the kingdom come with power on the mount of transfiguration?

Clearly, He was speaking of the establishment of the kingdom/body/church which was established on the day of Pent. in Acts 2.


Peter an eyewitness explains it pretty well too in 2 Peter 1:13-18

13Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

14Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

15Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Notice verse 16 "power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" and verse 18 on the location they were at, the holy mount.

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Kletes, does this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. prove that the kingdom of God come with power. at the transfiguration?

It certainly proves that we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

That wonderful appearance of Jesus in his glory did not change anything, but his death & resurrection did, & Peter preached Jesus as Lord & Christ from Pentecost onwards.

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Kletes, does this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. prove that the kingdom of God come with power. at the transfiguration?

It certainly proves that we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

That wonderful appearance of Jesus in his glory did not change anything, but his death & resurrection did, & Peter preached Jesus as Lord & Christ from Pentecost onwards.


I don't see what the hang up is on the mount, Jesus did talk to Moses and Elijah about his decease (death, burial and resurrection),and even charged Peter, John and James not to tell anyone until after his resurrection.
Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
Peter is specifically talking about when he was on the mount where the transfiguration happened. Peter doesn't mention anything of the day of Pentecost with in this context. The day of Pentecost is the day the Holy Spirit came with power. Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
I will post all of 2 Peter 1

1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

13Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

14Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

15Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Nothing of the day of Pentacost is mentioned. Even verse 11 starts off " entering into Jesus' Christ everlasting kingdom". He then goes on with putting them in rememberence during a time, and the time was on the holy mount. Notice the word "holy". verse 16 specifically says the "power and coming of the Lord Jesus Christ". Peter also mentions hearing the voice of the Father which happened on that holy mount as well. Peter sure cound not have been talking of hearing the voice of the Father after Jesus straightway coming up out of the water, when he was baptized. Even though the voice of the Father was heard during that time. The whole context is the transfiguration nothing more.

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I don't see what the hang up is on the mount, Jesus did talk to Moses and Elijah about his decease (death, burial and resurrection),and even charged Peter, John and James not to tell anyone until after his resurrection.
Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
Peter is specifically talking about when he was on the mount where the transfiguration happened. Peter doesn't mention anything of the day of Pentecost with in this context. The day of Pentecost is the day the Holy Spirit came with power. Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
I will post all of 2 Peter 1

1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

13Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

14Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

15Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Nothing of the day of Pentacost is mentioned. Even verse 11 starts off " entering into Jesus' Christ everlasting kingdom". He then goes on with putting them in rememberence during a time, and the time was on the holy mount. Notice the word "holy". verse 16 specifically says the "power and coming of the Lord Jesus Christ". Peter also mentions hearing the voice of the Father which happened on that holy mount as well. Peter sure cound not have been talking of hearing the voice of the Father after Jesus straightway coming up out of the water, when he was baptized. Even though the voice of the Father was heard during that time. The whole context is the transfiguration nothing more.


Yes, Peter spoke here about the transfiguration, but he said nothing about he establishment of the kingdom. The fact remains that the kingdom which is the church was established on the Day of Pent.

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Yes, Peter spoke here about the transfiguration, but he said nothing about he establishment of the kingdom. The fact remains that the kingdom which is the church was established on the Day of Pent.


Were in mark 9 does it say establish his kingdom. The kingdom was already there. Where do you get the idea that the kingdom of God is the church exclusivly? Don't you know the Kingdom of God is within you? Practically every reference for the Kingdom of God is in direct correlation with the Kingdom of Heaven.

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Were in mark 9 does it say establish his kingdom. The kingdom was already there. Where do you get the idea that the kingdom of God is the church exclusivly? Don't you know the Kingdom of God is within you? Practically every reference for the Kingdom of God is in direct correlation with the Kingdom of Heaven.


Mark 9:1 reads, "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." Certainly it does not use the words "establish his kingdom" but it is clear what is being spoken of.

Yes, the kingdom of God is within the Christians, (It actuallly is the Christians) but it is still the church (Matt 16:18-19), which is the Christians.

Christians = church = body of Christ = kingdom


So what do you think the transiguration was, just 3 guys with bright clothing? If im not mistaken where ever God the Father is, in this case hearing his voice, there was power present right? The kingdom of God is not the church exclusivly and to think that is in error.

Explain this verse then if the kingdom of God came in power on the day of Pentecost.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Are you going to tell me that the kingdom of God in this verse is the Church? When Jesus Christ cast out devils at that very time was that the day of Pentecost? No doubt Jesus Christ cast out demons by the Spirit of God, or else it would have been demons correct?

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If the church is the kingdom then God's kingdom has sure flopped. If anyone should know this it's you Brits. How many people attend church (any one, you name it) in Britain right now esecially among the young people? What's the fastest growing religion in Britain?. Last I heard it was Hinduism but I'm sure Islam is giving it a run for it's money. And the Hindu and Muslims are just filling the huge void left by the apostasy of the church and the results of the growing atheism in England. I bet the Byzantines said "the kingdom of God is among us" when the Ottoman Turks were knocking at their door on May 29th 1453.

Some people don't really think practically or realistically. Anyone with a pair of eyes could see that the church is not the kingdom of God. If it is then God's kingdom has failed miserably.

Mark 9:1 was a promise to show the disciples the kingdom of God before they "tasted death" and God did show them IN TYPE. Notice Mark 8:38 where the Second Coming is discussed.

Also, Matthew 16:27,28 which Christ says before his transfiguration.

[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

If it was the church then what about these verses? It's clear as day that this is a reference to the Second Coming not to Acts 2.

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If the church is the kingdom then God's kingdom has sure flopped. If anyone should know this it's you Brits. How many people attend church (any one, you name it) in Britain right now esecially among the young people? What's the fastest growing religion in Britain?. Last I heard it was Hinduism but I'm sure Islam is giving it a run for it's money. And the Hindu and Muslims are just filling the huge void left by the apostasy of the church and the results of the growing atheism in England. I bet the Byzantines said "the kingdom of God is among us" when the Ottoman Turks were knocking at their door on May 29th 1453.

Some people don't really think practically or realistically. Anyone with a pair of eyes could see that the church is not the kingdom of God. If it is then God's kingdom has failed miserably.

Mark 9:1 was a promise to show the disciples the kingdom of God before they "tasted death" and God did show them IN TYPE. Notice Mark 8:38 where the Second Coming is discussed.

Also, Matthew 16:27,28 which Christ says before his transfiguration.

[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

If it was the church then what about these verses? It's clear as day that this is a reference to the Second Coming not to Acts 2.

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In what sense can you say that the church (kingdom) has flopped? Just because many reject the truth does not mean that the truth has failed or flopped. As a matter of fact, the Word teaches us that most will reject it.

You can question my thinking if you desire but the truth is that the Bible teaches that the kingdom is the church (Matt 16:18-19). Now, this does not mean that the kingdom will not some day be delivered up to the Father; it will be but what will never happen is some 1000 year reign on earth. The Bible simply does not teach that as a matter of fact, it contradicts it. Edited by coc333

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Now, this does not mean that the kingdom will not some day be delivered up to the Father; it will be but what will never happen is some 1000 year reign on earth. The Bible simply does not teach that as a matter of fact, it contradicts it.


So how do you deal with Revelation 19 & 20 which prophesies that Jesus Christ will return from Heaven to this earth and make war with his enemies, then rule the nations with a rod of iron for 1000 years? Such an event has not yet taken place, the only way you can get around it is to make it figurative and not literal.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

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Wilchbla:
[28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

If it was the church then what about these verses? It's clear as day that this is a reference to the Second Coming not to Acts 2.

Clear as day that some of the disciples would live for 2,000 years ????

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So how do you deal with Revelation 19 & 20 which prophesies that Jesus Christ will return from Heaven to this earth and make war with his enemies, then rule the nations with a rod of iron for 1000 years? Such an event has not yet taken place, the only way you can get around it is to make it figurative and not literal.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Soj,

I don't have to get around anything. I just have look at what the Lord's Word says. Revelation 1:1 states that the things in the book are figurative (symbolic). Revelation is written in apocolyptic language. It also teaches that the things written in the book are to have taken place in the near future. (Rev 1:1, 3; 22: 6, 7, 10, 12, 20) Compare Daniel 8:26 with Rev 22:10. Clearly these things were to have occurred in the near future of John.

People will often speak of chapter 20 to say that Christ is coming back to the earth. Read it. I challenge you or anyone else to show me where it ever says that He will ever step foot back on this earth. It simply isn't in the Word of God.

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Clear as day that some of the disciples would live for 2,000 years ????


There is the problem with such an argument Cov. In order for it to refer to His second coming one would have to say that their are some alive now who are 2000 years old.

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I don't have to get around anything. I just have look at what the Lord's Word says. Revelation 1:1 states that the things in the book are figurative (symbolic).

That's what I expected you to say, it's a very convenient argument but I don't buy it, I believe the Book literally wherever possible, and Rev 1:1 states that it's about things that must come to pass, and that's NOT symbolism.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Coc333, It's a pointless exercise for me to discuss this subject with you if you are going to dismiss away scripture as being figurative and not actually meaning what it says.

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That's what I expected you to say, it's a very convenient argument but I don't buy it, I believe the Book literally wherever possible, and Rev 1:1 states that it's about things that must come to pass, and that's NOT symbolism.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Coc333, It's a pointless exercise for me to discuss this subject with you if you are going to dismiss away scripture as being figurative and not actually meaning what it says.


It isn't convenient, it is what the scripture actually says whether you "buy it" or not. It states that in verse one. The Book of Revelation is symbolic. Yes, there are literal things in it. The first 3 chapters for the most part is literal.

Do you believe that Revelation is describing our future? Do you believe that the seven churches in chapters 2 and 3 are seven literal churches or is it symbolic?

I am not dismissing anything. I am simply reading what is actually there.

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That's what I expected you to say, it's a very convenient argument but I don't buy it, I believe the Book literally wherever possible, and Rev 1:1 states that it's about things that must come to pass, and that's NOT symbolism.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Coc333, It's a pointless exercise for me to discuss this subject with you if you are going to dismiss away scripture as being figurative and not actually meaning what it says.

While the opening verse declares that the Revelation is signified it must be understood in terms of real events & people. e.g. the Lion & the Lamb both refer to the Lord Jesus.

Chapter 11, refers to the temple & to the destruction of Jerusalem & indicates that much of the vision is dealing with that dreadful judgement prophesied by the Lord Jesus in his Olivet prophecy. That guides in our interpretation of the symbolism.

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Rev 1.1. Signified, means told by signs or symbols. I have noticed that some will not discuss anything other than what they have been taught, or brainwashed so they cannot see what the scripture plainly says.

The signs, once they are given and explained in a prophecy, do not change throughout the scripture, genesis to Revelation, the signs or symbols mean the same.

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