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Faith: What is it?

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I see no contradiction at all. Paul speaks to those who are lost and James speaks to those who are saved. Paul is speaking of justification before God and James is speaking of justification before lost men.

I wouldn't attempt to deny the scriptures above, I may differ with you on the context of 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" If you're saying you obeyed Christ after you were saved and were baptised then I agree 100%. If you're interpolating this to mean the water has some redeeming value then I disagree.

I hope we reached an agreement here?


I am glad that we can agree that there is no contradiction. Clearly, the Word of God does not contradict itself. Beyond that, I believe we do not agree with each other.

I do agree that water in and of itself is certainly not of any value. I could have someone baptize/immerse me in water all day long...I could do it myself by simply getting in the bathtub and achieve nothing if I have no faith, but the water is important in the sense that it is the mode of baptism which God has set forth.

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The child of God does not have blind faith. We have a book, called the "Holy Bible." This book tells us about both God, Jesus, and what He expects out of us. With it your faith is not blind faith.


I believe that we can agree on that. Cetainly it is from the Word of God that we obtain faith (Rom 10:17) and it is the Word of God which provides us everything we need to live a Godly life (2 Peter 1:3; 2 Tim 3:16-17).

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Faith is a lot of things; It cannot be defined in one word only.

Did the Philippian jailer exercise faith when he was told "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved and thy house? (Acts 16:31)

And when, or at what point, did the Ethiopian eunuch get saved? (Acts 8:37) We do not know their works, but we do know their profession of belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and we know that Christ accepted them on their word.

And what about Abraham, when "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." Heb. 11: 8) Didn't he step out "blindly"? If we knew all the details of faith, we would not venture to trust the Lord in some cases; it is the "not knowing" that makes it precious, in many cases.

what about Romans 10:9, 10 and even 13?


Everyone has faith, but not everyone has the faith of Christ. Everybody believes in something, and many trust what they believe to be right, but only the belief in the existence of, and the finished work of Christ will save us. True, as some one said, the devil has faith, and the Bible says he trembles at it; he also has works, although they are unfruitful works of darkness...so, what is faith? It is a belief in a system of laws and principles that are focused in one direction.

You may not like this, but Muslims have faith too, only not a saving faith; theirs is a nis-directed faith. Obedience is done in faith, so obeying is also an act of faith. We must separate an act of faith from saving faith, and still it is insufficient to totally explain what faith is. Roans 8:24, as already mentioned, describes faith too--it is hope, but if it is not "blind" it is not faith, for why shouldn't we believe that which we already see? Believing the impossible; believing the invisible; believing against all hope, is what faith is, but it is still more than that!

It is not merely believing that God is capable of doing anything, but it is also believing that He is willing to do it. God has promised to meet our needs, every last one of them, and we know He is able to do so, but few of us believe He will do what He said He would.

Faith is simple, yet it is complicated--how's that for confusing?

Edited by irishman

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Faith is a lot of things; It cannot be defined in one word only.

Did the Philippian jailer exercise faith when he was told "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved and thy house? (Acts 16:31)

And when, or at what point, did the Ethiopian eunuch get saved? (Acts 8:37) We do not know their works, but we do know their profession of belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and we know that Christ accepted them on their word.

And what about Abraham, when "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." Heb. 11: 8) Didn't he step out "blindly"? If we knew all the details of faith, we would not venture to trust the Lord in some cases; it is the "not knowing" that makes it precious, in many cases.

what about Romans 10:9, 10 and even 13?


Everyone has faith, but not everyone has the faith of Christ. Everybody believes in something, and many trust what they believe to be right, but only the belief in the existence of, and the finished work of Christ will save us. True, as some one said, the devil has faith, and the Bible says he trembles at it; he also has works, although they are unfruitful works of darkness...so, what is faith? It is a belief in a system of laws and principles that are focused in one direction.

You may not like this, but Muslims have faith too, only not a saving faith; theirs is a nis-directed faith. Obedience is done in faith, so obeying is also an act of faith. We must separate an act of faith from saving faith, and still it is insufficient to totally explain what faith is. Roans 8:24, as already mentioned, describes faith too--it is hope, but if it is not "blind" it is not faith, for why shouldn't we believe that which we already see? Believing the impossible; believing the invisible; believing against all hope, is what faith is, but it is still more than that!

It is not merely believing that God is capable of doing anything, but it is also believing that He is willing to do it. God has promised to meet our needs, every last one of them, and we know He is able to do so, but few of us believe He will do what He said He would.

Faith is simple, yet it is complicated--how's that for confusing?


Excuse me for bolding in but I must agree with you.

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Faith is a lot of things; It cannot be defined in one word only.

Did the Philippian jailer exercise faith when he was told "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved and thy house? (Acts 16:31)

And when, or at what point, did the Ethiopian eunuch get saved? (Acts 8:37) We do not know their works, but we do know their profession of belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and we know that Christ accepted them on their word.

And what about Abraham, when "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." Heb. 11: 8) Didn't he step out "blindly"? If we knew all the details of faith, we would not venture to trust the Lord in some cases; it is the "not knowing" that makes it precious, in many cases.

what about Romans 10:9, 10 and even 13?


Everyone has faith, but not everyone has the faith of Christ. Everybody believes in something, and many trust what they believe to be right, but only the belief in the existence of, and the finished work of Christ will save us. True, as some one said, the devil has faith, and the Bible says he trembles at it; he also has works, although they are unfruitful works of darkness...so, what is faith? It is a belief in a system of laws and principles that are focused in one direction.

You may not like this, but Muslims have faith too, only not a saving faith; theirs is a nis-directed faith. Obedience is done in faith, so obeying is also an act of faith. We must separate an act of faith from saving faith, and still it is insufficient to totally explain what faith is. Roans 8:24, as already mentioned, describes faith too--it is hope, but if it is not "blind" it is not faith, for why shouldn't we believe that which we already see? Believing the impossible; believing the invisible; believing against all hope, is what faith is, but it is still more than that!

It is not merely believing that God is capable of doing anything, but it is also believing that He is willing to do it. God has promised to meet our needs, every last one of them, and we know He is able to do so, but few of us believe He will do what He said He would.

Faith is simple, yet it is complicated--how's that for confusing?


I agree, there is much that can be said about faith. It is a great study.

Yes, the Philippian jailer did “exercise faith.” At what point did he exercise that faith? (Acts 16:30-33)

At what point did he go away rejoicing? (Acts 8:39) Here is a question, why did he ask the question, “…See here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?”

We do know what they both did. We also know what the Jews did on the day of Pentecost. (Acts 2) We do know what Paul did (Acts 9, 22, 26). We do know what Simon and the others in Samaria did when they heard (and believed) what Phillip preached (Acts 8:12-13)…..

Did Abraham step out blindly? Of course, he did step out. As he clearly had an “active” faith when he offered Isaac. (Gen 22:1-12)

Heb 11 is a beautiful chapter on faith. Notice one thing that that they all had in common….they all acted.

What about Acts 22:16 in conjunction with Rom 10:9,10 and even 13? What was Paul teaching? Would it have been the same thing he learned?

Yes, everyone has faith of some sort. Even the Atheist have faith; of course it is not faith in God or Christ. It is indeed only having faith in Christ that is saving faith. But, it isn’t having a simple belief in His existence. It isn’t a simple belief that He was crucified on the cross. Do you think that Satan knows that he was crucified on the cross and that through His sacrifice man is able to be saved?

Could you please clarify something for me? Are you saying that “faith” is active but “saving faith” is not?

Yes, many choose to not believe that God will do what He said he would do. That is a shame. God is faithful and will do all which He said that He would. Isn’t that an interesting study…what did He promise?

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I am sure that if you have read my previous post you know what I believe. I am also sure that you are aware that I have been warned about what I say on here, but since you asked, I will answer your question.

I will allow the Bible to answer your question; my opinion doesn't matter.

1. Eph 2:8 - Saved by grace
2. Rom 8:24 - Saved by hope
3. 1 Peter 3:21 - Saved by water
4. Rom 5:9 - Justified by his blood; saved through Him

Here is a question for you. James in chapter 2:24 said, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Paul in Romans chapters 3, 4, 5; Gal chapters 2, 3 etc. clearly states that a man is justified by faith and not by works. Clearly we know that they were not contradicting one another so how would you explain the difference?


creeping_heretic.jpg

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I have been saved for 20 years grew up and still in a IFB KJV church. Why now do I doubt everything I have ever heard I feel like someone who walked into a new world not knowing what or who to believe.

Welcome to the forum, Lillybell.

I suggest that your problem is that all your experience to date is family/friends/church & you have been taking it for granted. You need to make sure that your faith is personal & centred on Jesus himself. I never doubted my faith until a Gospel minister challenged me. I had been in an Anglican church & had come to faith without realising it. That faith was real - it was 53 years ago.

May God help you come into a deep & living personal relationship with Jesus.

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I have been saved for 20 years grew up and still in a IFB KJV church. Why now do I doubt everything I have ever heard I feel like someone who walked into a new world not knowing what or who to believe.


What brought this on and how long have you felt this way?

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I have been saved for 20 years grew up and still in a IFB KJV church. Why now do I doubt everything I have ever heard I feel like someone who walked into a new world not knowing what or who to believe.


I've seen folks go through this. It's usually after they have been polluted with things like this:

www.baptistdeception.com

Or they have fallen in with some other more worldly denomination.

Stay strong to what your parents and your pastor have taught you. Separate from the reprobate influences that are causing you this doubt. It is of the devil, that ol' wiley satan.

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I've seen folks go through this. It's usually after they have been polluted with things like this:

www.baptistdeception.com

Or they have fallen in with some other more worldly denomination.

Stay strong to what your parents and your pastor have taught you. Separate from the reprobate influences that are causing you this doubt. It is of the devil, that ol' wiley satan.


I would suggest...
Don't stop reading your Bible (King James) and praying.

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The old Devil has many wiles, he is a deceiver, he is a liar, and he is going to and fro looking for all that he can deceive. Because of him, many will go to hell, because of him, many Christians will fall to his wiles.

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

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I've seen folks go through this. It's usually after they have been polluted with things like this:

www.baptistdeception.com

Or they have fallen in with some other more worldly denomination.

Stay strong to what your parents and your pastor have taught you. Separate from the reprobate influences that are causing you this doubt. It is of the devil, that ol' wiley satan.


That site you gave, their problem is that they disagree with God. Of course they are not by their self, the majority of people disagree with God.

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That site you gave, their problem is that they disagree with God. Of course they are not by their self, the majority of people disagree with God.



That's definitely part of their problem. I'm sure some of them have suffered some form of spiritual abuse, but they make the mistake of lumping all IFBs together. They've let one legitimately bad experience in a single IFB church make them think that they would have a like experience in every other IFB church. What's worse, is this is only one such site. There are hundreds, even support groups that meet regularly for what they refer to as "spiritual healing," whatever that is. There is even a movement to have the IFB labled as a dangerous/abusive cult and it's led by mostly former IFB members.

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I don't know, I read my Bible(KJV) and pray but it seems to be just there. I'm probably not making sense but I feel like something is totally missing. I do vividely remember the time I received Christ. I remember just like it was yesterday even though it was 20 years ago. I teach my SS kids every Bible lesson I know all the Bible answers but it doesn't seem to fit anymore. My husband does not understand at all. He thinks I can just pray through this but my prayers seem empty. I sit in the pew and it takes absolutely everything I have not to break down. I want that joy that Christians are suppose to have, I want to be happy, I want to be able to worship with a peace, but all that is not there. I don't even want to go to church if it is going to be such a hurt. I have loved my church. It is a solid KJV IFBC I have no doubt that the church is in Gods will. They are so many people coming and being saved. It is on fire for God. But my heart doesn't feel it.

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God does not promise us happiness. Yet He promises never of leave or forsake us. With the condition of this world, seeing the route it is headed, so many are on the route to hell and everylasting punishment, how can a Christin be happy? But we have an inner happiness, that no matter what may happen, we have so much to look forward to, and no one can take that away from us. Of course it will only come on the other side, yet, death is not our enemy, that.Christ saw to

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I sit in the pew and it takes absolutely everything I have not to break down.

Perhaps that's not a bad thing (if I'm understanding the phrase "break down" correctly)? Could it be that God wants you to break down and cry out to Him, not caring what others think?

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