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Why do we allow women to sing in church


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1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

In the 1828 Webster we find the word silence to mean

1. In a general sense, stillness, or entire absence of sound or noise; as the silence of midnight.



With these two verses being so clear that women are to be silent, why do we allow them to sing? Is this not disOBeying what Paul told Timothy?
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1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

In the 1828 Webster we find the word silence to mean

With these two verses being so clear that women are to be silent, why do we allow them to sing? Is this not disOBeying what Paul told Timothy?


Now that you have pointed these very clear Scriptures out I believe you do make a valid OBservation. If one is literally interpret the Holy Bible then there should be no singing done whatsoever by the woman in the church and they are to be silent. This is the clear and unmistakable intent of Paul, I'm sure of it.
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Hmmm - interesting point,Rancher. And if you factor in patterns in scripture, music during the time of Israel was done by the Levites...all men.

Dennis - most of the hymns that are sung in church are usually pretty well laced with doctrine. For example, the song "Did You Think to Pray?" "Ere you left your room this morning, did you think to pray..." That's just one line, but it would seem to me that it could be looked on as a rebuke to those who didn't pray...and if there a men in the congregation....

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This would be a better passage to use in the argument then.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (1Co 14:34-37).

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1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

It seems to me that for one to be consistent in interpreting this passage one must take the Scriptures for what they say, women are to be silent. If one looks at leading singing/worship in the church as a teaching activity or exercising authority, then the very act of singing must be integral to the learning or authority experience and thus singing must be included as an activity the women must not partake of in church. They must learn in silence as the very act of singing/worship is learning. The must be bystanders and learn from the men as they sing or teach in song.

I don't see why people can't just take the clear and plain teaching of this passage. Me thinks there are many a so-called Christian who wants to do just what they want to do and they refuse to follow the Lord and his plain teaching in this area.

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This would be a better passage to use in the argument then.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (1Co 14:34-37).


Agreed, this verse buttresses the fact that women should not be singing in Church, but should remain silent.
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Maybe we can say "speak" and "sing" are two different things altogether so they can "sing" but not "speak". Things that make you go hmmm?

I can almost...almost see the point of those saying women can't sing as a special but if they are singing in the congregation I don't see that the argument holds water.

So, does this also mean women (who are full members of the Church) are not allowed to speak or vote at church meetings? If their husband is gone are they allowed to vote for him (of course I would hope they are in agreement and have talked about whatever it is they are voting on).

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I wanted to post this to make women feel better: :th_tiphat:

The following study, "The Worth of Women," is adopted from the Thompson Chain Study Bible:

I. There were many notable women God used in the Bible.

Eve - the mother of all mankind - Ge 3:6

Miriam - the co-leader and prophetess - Nu 12:1-2; Mic 6:4

Deborah - the patriotic judge and prophetess - Jg 4:4

Ruth - the woman of constancy - Ru 1:16

Hannah - the ideal mother - 1Sa 1:20-12:19

Abigail - the capable woman - 1Sa 25:3,18-19

The Shunammite - the hospitable woman - 2Ki 4:8-10

Esther - the self sacrificing woman - Es 4:16

The Canaanite - the woman of faith - Mt 15:28

Mary Magdalene - the transformed woman - Mr 16:1,9

Elizabeth - the humble woman - Lu 1:43

Mary - the woman chosen of God - Lu 1:30-38

Mary of Bethany - the woman immortalized by Christ - Mt 26:13; Lu 10:42

Martha - the worried housekeeper - Lu 10:40

The Woman Evangelist - Joh 4:29

Dorcas - the benevolent seamstress - Ac 9:36

Lydia - the business woman - Ac 16:14

Priscilla - co-laborer of Paul and discipler of Apollos - Ac 18:26; Ro 16:3

Phoebe - a special messenger and servant of the church - Ro 16:1-2

II. Women portrayed some special distinctions in the New Testament.

Women were the last ones at the cross - Mr 15:47

Women were the first ones at the tomb - Joh 20:1

Women were the first to proclaim the resurrection - Mt 28:8

A woman was the first witness to the Jews - Lu 2:37-38

Women participated in the first prayer meeting - Ac 1:14

A woman was the first European convert - Ac 16:14

A woman labored with Paul and discipled Apollos alongside her husband - Ac 18:18-26

Women contended in the gospel ministry alongside Paul - Php 4:3

III. God used special women to deliver insightful messages to His people.

Miriam - Ex 15:20

Deborah - Jg 4:4

Huldah - 2Ki 22:14; 2Ch 34:12

Ana - Lu 2:36

IV. God wants to use women in special ways to HIS glory.

Their skills are used to provide for His work - Ex 35:25

Their compassion and provision ministers to the poor - Pr 31:20

Their small sacrifices are greatly esteemed by God - Lu 21:2-4

Their kindness teaches respect - Pr 11:16

Their nOBle character is an honor to a husband - Pr 12:4

Their wisdom builds a strong home - Pr 14:1

Their modesty and decency bring honor to God - 1Ti 2:9-10

Their example of self-control and ministry of discipleship produces godliness in younger women - Tit 2:3-5

Their submission, purity, and reverence wins an unbelieving husband - 1Pe 3:1-2

Edited by DennisDurty
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Maybe we can say "speak" and "sing" are two different things altogether so they can "sing" but not "speak". Things that make you go hmmm?

I can almost...almost see the point of those saying women can't sing as a special but if they are singing in the congregation I don't see that the argument holds water.

So, does this also mean women (who are full members of the Church) are not allowed to speak or vote at church meetings? If their husband is gone are they allowed to vote for him (of course I would hope they are in agreement and have talked about whatever it is they are voting on).


Being "silent" is being "silent."
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Rancher,
Your proposal appears out of context. I wouldn’t recommend making a doctrine out of what you’ve proposed.

silence
Strong’s 2271
1) quietness
a) description of the life of one who stays at home doing his own work, and does not officiously meddle with the affairs of others
fem. Of 2272, stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle or language
2) silence
and derived from:
Strong’s 2272
1) quiet, tranquil

der. Of the base of 1476 and 2192; prop. keeping one’s seat (sedentary); i.e. (by impl.) still (undisturbed, undisturbing):- peaceable, quiet.

1476 to sit, sedentary, immovable, settled, stedfast
2192 to hold

This has nothing to do with singing or music but everything to do with conduct and attitude while under instruction for learning while in the assembly of the church. It may speak to not bursting out in song while under instruction. I believe the context of the entire chapter would agree; beginning with conduct and attitude toward government, why we must conduct ourselves thus, and finally how we should conduct ourselves in the assembly of believers.

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Rancher,
Your proposal appears out of context. I wouldn’t recommend making a doctrine out of what you’ve proposed.

silence
Strong’s 2271
1) quietness
a) description of the life of one who stays at home doing his own work, and does not officiously meddle with the affairs of others
fem. Of 2272, stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle or language
2) silence
and derived from:
Strong’s 2272
1) quiet, tranquil

der. Of the base of 1476 and 2192; prop. keeping one’s seat (sedentary); i.e. (by impl.) still (undisturbed, undisturbing):- peaceable, quiet.

1476 to sit, sedentary, immovable, settled, stedfast
2192 to hold

This has nothing to do with singing or music but everything to do with conduct and attitude while under instruction for learning while in the assembly of the church. It may speak to not bursting out in song while under instruction. I believe the context of the entire chapter would agree; beginning with conduct and attitude toward government, why we must conduct ourselves thus, and finally how we should conduct ourselves in the assembly of believers.


Being "silent" is being "silent."
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Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1Ti 2:11,12)

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1Co 14:34,35)


I don't think anyone's disputing that silent means silent, but when are women to be silent? It seems to me that the context of both passages above is women speaking when they should be learning. I don't see how this applies to women participating in congregational singing or singing specials (as long as they're not leading men in song).

My church is a very solid King James bible believing church. The women sing. I wonder at what point these types of discussions are unhealthy, promoting discord in good churches. Just thinking out loud here. Any thoughts?

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