Members JerryNumbers Posted January 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 2, 2009 No doubt, us Christians make many foolish decisions, but thankfully He can even work out our foolish decisions for our good. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28 (KJV) I would not dare to say how God does this without infringing on our own free will, but I have faith that He can do this for each one of us that loves Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PastorHarrison Posted January 2, 2009 Members Share Posted January 2, 2009 No doubt, us Christians make many foolish decisions, but thankfully He can even work out our foolish decisions for our good. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28 (KJV) I would not dare to say how God does this without infringing on our own free will, but I have faith that He can do this for each one of us that loves Him. Yes I quite agree, but I do wonder sometimes, if I were one of the hundreds that was shouting in favor of Caleb & Joshua's recommendation that we go on into Canaan and take what is ours. When the idiots voted that decision down and brought about 40 years of God's punishment on us all, I wonder if I would have been so happy as I wandered aimlessly waiting to die in the sand of the deserts over the next 40 years, instead of going into the promised land because of some idiots who voted us right out of God's will. ".....to them that love God...." I tend to think even some of them that voted against Caleb & Joshua loved God....but their foolish choice and idiotic vote, brought condemnation down on what? Hundreds of thousands? I think some Christians who love God may have re-enacted that event at the polls....and now it remains to be seen how God will reward our Nation's choice. I hope I am wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I do wonder sometimes, if I were one of the hundreds that was shouting in favor of Caleb & Joshua's recommendation that we go on into Canaan and take what is ours. When the idiots voted that decision down and brought about 40 years of God's punishment on us all, I wonder if I would have been so happy as I wandered aimlessly waiting to die in the sand of the deserts over the next 40 years, instead of going into the promised land because of some idiots who voted us right out of God's will. I am a little puzzled by that statement. :puzzled: Hundreds shouting in favor of Caleb & Joshua's recommendation that they go on into Canaan? All I recall is the whole congregations recommendation that Joshua and Caleb be stoned. Joshua and Caleb were the only men of age that followed the Lord there(except Moses who died for other reasons). Thus they lived to go in to Canaan while everyone else died. Joshua and Caleb were not voted out of Gods will by others, others simply delayed things for them a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PastorHarrison Posted January 3, 2009 Members Share Posted January 3, 2009 Let me clarify that then a bit, didn't intend inference that the Bible says there were, but "if there were". It was not God's will that they blow it and miss going in, so in my estimation they did quite vote themselves out of God's will. Caleb and Joshua were quite assuredly voted out of what they could have had right that next morning (in my opinion) and yes, it was delayed by 40 yrs so technically they did get it. My point is, in line with the topic, man's ability to choose has consequences. Paul said God displeased with some (not all) [1 Cor 10] so I suppose that some of them didn't want to miss God's will that night. But if that example doesn't work....there are of course many other instances we can choose from Scripture wherein men made choices relating to governance or leadership contrary to God's will and thereby missed his will and suffered for it. That is the topic I thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted January 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2009 I agree, by making wrong choices we may well bring bad consequences on our self. A saying I like is, Do Right and Suffer the Consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PastorHarrison Posted January 16, 2009 Members Share Posted January 16, 2009 One of the things I find ever amazing is how, as I am out knocking on doors and talking with folks, I can meet so many people who have made an absolute mess out of thier lives....but then they'll spread a thick coat of "well...God knows why this is happening and I just trust that he's got his reasons for it". I've seen family after family who intentionally left church, or were unfaithful at best, take a flippant blas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted January 17, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 17, 2009 One of the things I find ever amazing is how' date=' as I am out knocking on doors and talking with folks, I can meet so many people who have made an absolute mess out of thier lives....but then they'll spread a thick coat of "[i']well...God knows why this is happening and I just trust that he's got his reasons for it". I've seen family after family who intentionally left church, or were unfaithful at best, take a flippant blas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orvals Posted February 27, 2009 Members Share Posted February 27, 2009 It is probable that Joshua and Caleb where the only family leaders who wanted to go into the Promised Land but not necessarily the only people. After all Israel was politically controlled by a patriarchal philosophy, consider Christ who was referenced as the son of David by the common people of his time implying that the people knew he was the legitimate heir of the throne of David and yet the leaders rejected Christ and had him killed. All Israel suffered for the direction their leadership took (Titus A.D.70, Hitler etc) even though not all were guilty. Matthew 21:42 and 43 is clear the builders rejected the corner stone (in this case the builders were the leadership of Israel) and because of that they lost the kingdom. As has been pointed out people always have individual choices to make in their everyday lives that are separate from the steps taken by a nation?s leadership. If I make an unwise choice in my home my wife and children are going to reap the consequences of my choice that does not mean that they had a say in the choice or that they themselves were wrong or sinners. Paul clearly warned the Roman centurion and the ships captain and officers not to sail from Lasea in acts 27 warning that the ship and its occupants could be lost none-the-less leadership decided to sail. Paul, the crewmen, and the other prisoners as well as leadership forced to ride out the consequences of their decision. Obviously these decisions were made by the leadership but the people under them had little choice but to follow. How they followed was still within their control and dictated by their faith and trust in Christ or conscience (in the case of the unsaved). Now to answer the question posed by Jerry ? ?Should we automatically assume that one who is elected president has God's stamp of approval? Yes, God did allow then to become president, but that does not necessarily mean God approves of them.? No we should not automatically assume that the elected leadership has God?s approval nor should we believe that a wicked leader alleviates our responsibility to follow, to pray for or to obey when or where God?s word is not violated. In fact the verses quoted by Jerry indicate that we are responsible for the leadership that we have. All of this Brings us back to 2 Chronicles 7:14 ?when my people? pray, seek and turn I will hear, forgive and heal. Orvals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted February 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 27, 2009 Didn't you contradict your self? orvals wrote: Now to answer the question posed by Jerry ? ?Should we automatically assume that one who is elected president has God's stamp of approval? Yes, God did allow then to become president, but that does not necessarily mean God approves of them.?No we should not automatically assume that the elected leadership has God?s approval nor should we believe that a wicked leader alleviates our responsibility to follow, to pray for or to obey when or where God?s word is not violated. In fact the verses quoted by Jerry indicate that we are responsible for the leadership that we have. All of this Brings us back to 2 Chronicles 7:14 ?when my people? pray, seek and turn I will hear, forgive and heal. Your giving both yes and no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orvals Posted February 27, 2009 Members Share Posted February 27, 2009 Jerry I hope I did not overlook something again. :pray The 'yes' that is highlighted is a quote from your original post. Notice that that entire phrase is in quotation marks. orvals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted February 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2009 OK, I reread read it, my bad, I read things wrong, sorry about that. :ooops I think most of us agree what ever comes about God does allow it. But it seems many do believe every leader that we have has God' stamp of approval. And to be honest, at this time I think it make little difference who our leader is, whether they be democrat or republican, the only difference in this is who they cater to, democrats take care of democrats, republican take care of republicans. To each party its about the greed for power. Yes, the republicans hold to just a few more Christians values than the democrats. But still I would not want to be identified as a republican, just a Christians, the republican party has many none Christians within it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PastorHarrison Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 How any Christian can be a Democrat is beyond me personally....the party is pro just about everything thats anti Biblical, but you're right, the Republican party is wobbling like a blown tire as well....just not quite so bad. The men on that ship mentioned by Orvals from Acts 27 didn't make the choice to go onward against Paul's advice....but they sure suffered the consequences of the decision to go onward by the ship captain. In the end the men aboard came close to death as the soldiers debated killing them all (Acts 27:42) but didn't, and then they were ordered to abandon the ship as it was being destroyed by the waves....some couldn't swim and so were left to find some wreckage on which to try to make it to shore.... pretty horrific event that day! I imagine it like this "we're all in a wooden ship together Christians and the Devil's children. The Devil's children are playing with matches in the 'gun powder room'. We Christians need not fear the explosion for we know where we're going, but in the mean time, we ought not 'in my estimation' simply assume it's God's will for the devil's children to have chosen to be in the gun power room with matches. I say rather we ought do our part to get the idiots out of the gun power room and get as many of them saved as we can". God will sink the boat on his schedule, but I'd prefer not be drifting at sea on a plank with my hair burned off in the mean time". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orvals Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Now where is that match? Oh well I guess we can use this candle hidden under this bushel basket. :Green Orvals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted March 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2009 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 2 Cor 6:14-18 (KJV) How can a Christians be identified with the republican party, its full of unbelievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1Timothy115 Posted March 7, 2009 Members Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hosea 8:3 Israel hath cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him. Hosea 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off. Should we automatically assume that one who is elected president has God's stamp of approval? Yes, God did allow then to become president, but that does not necessarily mean God approves of them. Jerry, I did not remember reading this scripture before. Great post! I saw some things this past week which from a secular perspective back you up. The president is only one of many administrators who serve the secular highest authority in our land, that is, The Constitution Of The United States Of America. Each one of the leaders in office in Washington must swear to support, protect, and uphold it. Also, many of our State leaders also swear to defend, support, and uphold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.