What is a Ruckmanite

[Wilchbla]

Maybe my earlier question was missed in the midst of all this so I will ask again.

Is there any real or major difference between the "Hyles crowd" and the "Sword crowd"? Anything other than perhaps more of a devotion to Hyles on one side than the other.

The whole issue with Hyles took place after JR Rice's death. A man by the name of Robert Sumner wanted to take the paper over but Hyles supported Hutson. So Sumner started a paper called The Biblical Evangelist (aka The Biblical Muckraker) which majored in digging up as much dirt and gossip about Hyles as it could. Then things got worse when Hyles took a stand on the KJV and The Sword was still wishy-washy on it. Hilariously, at the time, preachers were calling Hyles a Ruckmanite! So, really, today there isn't much difference. They probably can't even remember why they hate each other.

[irishman]

I'm not familiar with Hyles at all but I had thought I recalled seeing him mentioned in old Sword material. (Thank you Pastorj for taking the time to answer my previous question!)

Was Hyles preaching and writing doctrinally correct?

I don't really consider myself a "Hylesite" either, although I have heard many of his sermons. I probably read Spurgeon more than Hyles. You can download any of his books from the internet for free, Dr. Hyles never copywrited any of them (an admirable trait i believe; and I have adapted the same thinking if I were to ever have anything published--its for the glory of God, and not for making money.) Download some of them, or read them on line at (I believe) "jackhyles.com"; see for yourself if they are doctrinally correct. (I recommend "Four Calls to soul winning", one of my all-time favorites)

[pastorrvbc]

I don't really consider myself a "Hylesite" either, although I have heard many of his sermons. I probably read Spurgeon more than Hyles. You can download any of his books from the internet for free, Dr. Hyles never copywrited any of them (an admirable trait i believe; and I have adapted the same thinking if I were to ever have anything published--its for the glory of God, and not for making money.) Download some of them, or read them on line at (I believe) "jackhyles.com"; see for yourself if they are doctrinally correct. (I recommend "Four Calls to soul winning", one of my all-time favorites)

That is a great book!

And I don't understand people saying Dr. Hyles wasn't good on doctrine. I've listened to many of his sermons online as I can find, and he preached a lot of doctrine! Maybe he wasn't "deep" enough for some. But he did try to keep it simple for the people so they can take to heart at least one thought that would stick with them. But he was loaded with doctrine! Of that, there is little doubt. BTW, his message "Keep Your Stinking Feet Out of My Drinking Water" was a (at least to me) great sermon on the KJB.

[holster]

The whole issue with Hyles took place after JR Rice's death. A man by the name of Robert Sumner wanted to take the paper over but Hyles supported Hutson. So Sumner started a paper called The Biblical Evangelist (aka The Biblical Muckraker) which majored in digging up as much dirt and gossip about Hyles as it could. Then things got worse when Hyles took a stand on the KJV and The Sword was still wishy-washy on it. Hilariously, at the time, preachers were calling Hyles a Ruckmanite! So, really, today there isn't much difference. They probably can't even remember why they hate each other.

I still have a copy of "The Biblical Evangelist" where the Hyles "muck" article appeared. It is titled "The Saddest Story We Ever Had to Publish." But in reading it you could detect the true spirit behind the article.

Funny, I don't know how I came to have this copy as I had never subscribed to the publication.

I saw Mr. Hyles preach one time in Terre Haute IN. He was certainly an icon. I certainly DO remember his name being "chanted," and this was not even in his own church!

My complaint for the even was not so much anything to do with Mr. Hyles but the hosting church. My wife had to go out to the bathroom. They would not let her back into the sanctuary. They said she would "disturb the service." It was not invitation time, about halfway thru the service. I finally left to go check on her then I couldn't get back in either so we left. It was a huge and beautiful brand new church planted by a Hyles graduate. In less than two years they went bankrupt.

[John81]

Thank you for all the answers to my question.

I'm somewhat familiar with "The Biblical Evangelist" and Sumner. I think it was sometime earlier this year I saw a copy of that paper and it contained an article praising John R. Rice and denouncing Shelton Smith's moves to make the Sword KJO since Dr. Rice never held that position.

[HappyChristian]

I don't want to stir things up, but I have to disagree that JH didn't defend himself. He went on national television and defended himself against the charges brought against him by VN. I watched it...

(I'm not saying he was right or wrong - I'm just pointing out that he actually did defend himself)

I've listened to a number of his sermons over the years - both in person and on tape. I used to work for Joe Boyd, who trained preacher boys in the summer - the bulk of them were from HAC.

There were some things he preached that I didn't agree with. Sometimes I wonder if he made statements before thinking them through, or if he said them just for the shock value. Like the time he made the assertion that all men were mental homosexuals....

[holster]

Like the time he made the assertion that all men were mental homosexuals....

uuugggghhhhh! (where's that "throw up" smiley Matt used?)

[Bakershalfdozen]

It might be difficult for those of you who have just read/heard his sermons, or heard of the "greatness" of Hyles to believe or understand, but as one who grew up in the movement, went to the conferences and was in a Hyles church, I can testify that there was much evil that went on.

Odd doctrines and a lot of "I"-dolatry were taught. 1,2,3 "soul winning" was pushed, numbers were of utmost importance and baptisms were coerced just so the churches could get their name in the SOTL as having at least one baptism every Sunday in the year. And for some reason, immorality abounds in that group...

[Bakershalfdozen]

uuugggghhhhh! (where's that "throw up" smiley Matt used?)

Yes, he made that statement...

[HappyChristian]

Yes, he made that statement...

I know - I heard it.

[John81]

Yes, he made that statement...

Wow! I've heard liberal professors make that claim but never a pastor.

The liberal professors claimed that everyone had homosexual desires and unless they fought against them, they would all be active homosexuals. Their "proof" this was true is that those who denied this were lying and repressing their homosexual urges, and of course everyone who didn't deny it were by default admitting they had such urges and the rest were those who were openly homosexual or bi-sexual.

Is it really any wonder so many churches today are embracing homosexuality? Episcopalians, Lutherens, and others allowing homosexual pastors!!! "Christian" colleges teaching homosexuality is an individual choice.

[holster]

My complaint for the even was not so much anything to do with Mr. Hyles but the hosting church. My wife had to go out to the bathroom. They would not let her back into the sanctuary. They said she would "disturb the service." It was not invitation time, about halfway thru the service. I finally left to go check on her then I couldn't get back in either so we left. It was a huge and beautiful brand new church planted by a Hyles graduate. In less than two years they went bankrupt.

I'd like to correct my statement above. Someone has contacted me and let me know that the church I speak of did NOT go bankrupt. They did however have to sell the building and assets to pay the debt. There were many GOOD people involved and I did not intend to cast a cloud over anyone. Just wanted to set the record straight.

[irishman]

I don't want to stir things up, but I have to disagree that JH didn't defend himself. He went on national television and defended himself against the charges brought against him by VN. I watched it...

(I'm not saying he was right or wrong - I'm just pointing out that he actually did defend himself)

I've listened to a number of his sermons over the years - both in person and on tape. I used to work for Joe Boyd, who trained preacher boys in the summer - the bulk of them were from HAC.

There were some things he preached that I didn't agree with. Sometimes I wonder if he made statements before thinking them through, or if he said them just for the shock value. Like the time he made the assertion that all men were mental homosexuals....

I never heard that one happy, but if you heard him say it, I have to believe he did. i have no idea why, but after preaching as many sermons as he did, and for as many years as he did, he is bound to say a lot of things that are going to seem/be contrary to some. I would not like to think he really thought that but maybe it was for "shock effect" His sil, bro Schaap, does it all the time now! I have gotten so I don't listen much to him myself, and I loved Dr Hyles and HAC.


Also, if yoyu have heard him as much as you say you have, you probalby know that he adopted the "no defense" policy somewhere along the way. I don't know if he even thought that way back then. I am only 60 years old, so I haven't been around as long as some of you (Just kidding)

BTW, there are several things he teaches that I disagree with too, but that I disagree with many other preachers and laymen too.

[HappyChristian]

I never heard that one happy, but if you heard him say it, I have to believe he did. i have no idea why, but after preaching as many sermons as he did, and for as many years as he did, he is bound to say a lot of things that are going to seem/be contrary to some. I would not like to think he really thought that but maybe it was for "shock effect" His sil, bro Schaap, does it all the time now! I have gotten so I don't listen much to him myself, and I loved Dr Hyles and HAC.


Also, if yoyu have heard him as much as you say you have, you probalby know that he adopted the "no defense" policy somewhere along the way. I don't know if he even thought that way back then. I am only 60 years old, so I haven't been around as long as some of you (Just kidding)

BTW, there are several things he teaches that I disagree with too, but that I disagree with many other preachers and laymen too.

You've got me beat by 10 years!! I don't think he was vociferous in his defense - he actually didn't need to be, since so many took up his cause!!

I do know that many churches were damaged by the "100% for Jack Hyles" business that took place. I don't know who started that, but I have no doubts that he didn't oppose it. The church I was a member of at the time held a ladies conference every year, and Mrs. H plus others from there came all the time. That particular year, the pastor was called on the phone and asked if he was 100% for JH (it was FBC staff who called). He told them he wasn't 100% for anyone except Jesus - including his wife - and they told him that no-one from FBC would be speaking at the ladies conference that year. That wouldn't have happened w/o JH's permission and/or approval...after all, his wife was one of the main speakers each year!

[Pastorj]

John,

Hyles wrote a number of excellent books in the early years. Unfortunately his turn to and promotion of easy believism is a very troubling belief. I believe many are in hell today because of this pray this prayer mentality.

It's interesting that Hyles is often referred to as the "Baptist Pope". Wonder how he got that name, actually it is pretty clear amongst hyles followers.