What is a Ruckmanite

[John81]

Wilch, I don't need to go to the devil to learn his ways; I merely compare them to the Truth. Why don't we read the Book of Mormon and see all the good stuff there?

Speaking of this, many years ago I decided to read the Book of Mormon to get a full grasp of their false beliefs but it was so crazy I decided it wasn't worth the time and effort.

What's that Scientology book, Dionetics or something like that...anyway, I started to read that in the late 80s because some people in the workplace were going on about it. Well, that book was so out there I decided to do a skim of the book. That book is little more than a collection of various religious ideas, mixed and jumbled together with some commentary by the author.

I later learned that Hubbard originally wrote that book as one of his fiction books but so many folks took it seriously that he played along and willingly helped create a new religion from that book.:icon_rolleyes:

[Pastorj]

Irishman,

Have you ever been to Hyles Anderson when Hyles was alive. He promoted worship of himself. He is worshipped by many of his followers. All signs of a cult. I didn't say in my post it was a cult, just cultish because of how revered he was. John the Baptist said, I must decrease and He must increase. Certainly not Hyles views.

[irishman]

Irishman,

Have you ever been to Hyles Anderson when Hyles was alive. He promoted worship of himself. He is worshipped by many of his followers. All signs of a cult. I didn't say in my post it was a cult, just cultish because of how revered he was. John the Baptist said, I must decrease and He must increase. Certainly not Hyles views.

Yes, I have been there many times, all 3 of my kids have graduated from there, and I have attended pastors school a few times. Never once have I heard him exalt himself, or even act in an arrogant way. Most of his critics are people that would like to destroy his testimony, he was the "king of the hill" in fundamentalism, and many were trying to topple him.

The highlighted text is most likely somethung you have heard from others who were antagonistic to him, but I doubt that you can substantiate it with your own ears!

I have well over a hundred sermons on cd all by him, and have heard most of them, and never have I had an inkling that he was setting himself up as anything great. I do not see how you can say that he "promoted worship of himself" He never once led a soul to "Hyles" but led many, many to Christ. Therein lies most of his criticism. Why do many Christians think that soul winners are shallow when the Bible says they are wise? (Proverbs 11:30), and why does the soul winner shine as the stars as in Daniel 12:3?

"And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

it seems to me that though the preachers preach heavily against criticism, they can be the worst of the lot (for criticising one another)! BTW, he always, always pointed folk to Christ, and I believe he was humble, but he knew his calling too. Dr. Hyles did not believe in answering critcism of himself, and that is not the earmark of a man that exalts himself too highly.

lastly, if you can scripturally align him with Mr. Ruckman, please show me, otherwise...well, you know. If He is cultish then so must be Dr. Tom Malone; Lee Robison: Curtis hutson; John R Rice; Dr. Bob Gray, and hordes of others that preached from his pulpit, and promoted the same kind of confrontational soul winning that he did.

[Wilchbla]

Irishman,

Have you ever been to Hyles Anderson when Hyles was alive. He promoted worship of himself. He is worshipped by many of his followers. All signs of a cult. I didn't say in my post it was a cult, just cultish because of how revered he was. John the Baptist said, I must decrease and He must increase. Certainly not Hyles views.

Pastorj, you sure are irresponsible in some of the things you say about other pastors.

[robycop3]

How about the Hyles adultery thingie? there was more to that than just a rumor.

And the goofiness of Ruckman's writings soeax for itself.

[holster]

1 Cor 3
4* For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5*

[irishman]

How about the Hyles adultery thingie? there was more to that than just a rumor.

And the goofiness of Ruckman's writings soeax for itself.

The only way you could possibly know about that "Hyles adultery thingie" is that someone you trust told you so. We both know that you cannot honestly say that it was more than just a rumor.
It was supposed so because Dr. Hyles offered no defense, but as I stated eralier, he never defended himself agains accusations. He would defend his friends, but not himself. Maybe he figured that the Lord would work it out, I don't know, but I do know that it was his policy not to defend himslef against false accusations.

As for Ruckmans writings, I agree with you. I do not like to see Dr. hyles compared to such a heretic as Ruckman.

Wickipedia reveals a lot about ruckman and his "goofiness".


Holster, read 1 cor. 4:16 and 11:1, where Paul tells us to be followers of him, as long as he is following Christ. We all need leaders.

[John81]

Maybe my earlier question was missed in the midst of all this so I will ask again.

Is there any real or major difference between the "Hyles crowd" and the "Sword crowd"? Anything other than perhaps more of a devotion to Hyles on one side than the other.

[Pastorj]

John,

Yes, The Sword and Hyles broke in the early 90's after the Hyles adultery, which is well documented.

As to calling out preachers by name
Paul called out by name those who had left the ministry (Demas had forsaken him).

Calling out heretics and adulterers is completely within the realm of Scripture.

Irishman,
You must have been blinded when you were there because when Hyles enters into the auditorium, the students begin a chant about him. If that isn't worship, then we should redefine what worship is.

[Pastorj]

As to ruckman, The man has been divorced and is no longer qualified to be a pastor, therefore I do not recognize him as a pastor anyway.

[irishman]

John,

Yes, The Sword and Hyles broke in the early 90's after the Hyles adultery, which is well documented.

As to calling out preachers by name
Paul called out by name those who had left the ministry (Demas had forsaken him).

Calling out heretics and adulterers is completely within the realm of Scripture.

Irishman,
You must have been blinded when you were there because when Hyles enters into the auditorium, the students begin a chant about him. If that isn't worship, then we should redefine what worship is.

Bro. Hyles was loyal to his friend John R Rice, and stayed for awhile even after Curtis Hutson took over (I believe), again out of friendship. The Sword has always been a para-church ministry anyway.

Pastor J, I need to ask you to forgive me for my crudeness, I already asked the Lord to forgive me, and I know He did. I respect the office of pastor, but not always the man in the office. respect is warranted toward the Lord's established office, but it must be earned from mans viewpoint.

As for Demas, and Alexander, Paul warned others about him for their sakes. Surely they were not the only ones that betrayed him, and he didn't nail them to the wall. They were all working together, and others needed to know that there was a wolf among the sheep. Even so, he did not get into specifics as if he was beyond temptation himslef!

I think you need to look up the word "worship" it is quite enlightening. They scream when a ball team enters the field too, but that does not mean they worship them. I see nothing wrong with letting Dr. Hyles know that we love him, especially when he was under fire so much from other "Christians". I wish he were here today so we could holler once again. (Most of them were his college kids too, letting off a little steam and getting away with it.)

BTW I might as well say that I believe that HAC has the best standards in the country, and was very glad to send my girls there. They took very good care of the girls, and when my oldest daufghter married, it was the first time she had ever kissed a man (other than dad), and I owe a lot of that to HAC. Yes, I think he was probably the paramount preacher in the country, and I did honor him and appreciate him, but worship? No way. You go ahead and redefine worship, and I'll stick with the Biblical meaning, and Websters meaning (which is the same)since he put the dictionary together in the first place, and few, if any, argued about it then!

I hope you don't reap what you sow when it comes to rumors and attempts to destroy your ministry by a man that left Hyles-Anderson years ago, and became bitter about some things he disagreed with. Do you know how that rumor started? Try asking "bro" Sumner.

(My apologies to bro Godfrey, it was Mr. Sumner that started that mess. I came back to correct it. I knew the history of it, bit got the men cinfusewd, sorry Bro. Godfrey wherever you are)

[Wilchbla]

How about the Hyles adultery thingie? there was more to that than just a rumor.

And the goofiness of Ruckman's writings soeax for itself.

Not as goofy as your stance of the scriptures, roby.

Let it be known that Mr. Robycop3 doesn't even believe the original manuscripts are without error. And if you think I a meanie just ask him yourself.

[trc123]

I was not a member of Dr. Hyles church; nor a graduate of his school; nor am I a "Hylesite"; but I have met the man, heard him preach and done a bit of observing and such.

I have to say that when meeting the man in person (many years back of course) he was very humble and gracious. There was no air of pride and he was very humble and actually timid. I always perceived that he was a totally different man when behind the pulpit in that he became bold with the Holy Spirit's power in his preaching.

I understand he was only a man. I further understand that he could sin and fall to the same temptations as any man.

I just don't believe the accusations made against him by the persons making them were true. Perhaps I am right, perhaps I am not.

None of that will negate the fact that God used Dr. Hyles in a mighty way for many years. Pray God uses all of us to some such degree and pray that we do not fall to sin's temptation.

Peace!

[John81]

I'm not familiar with Hyles at all but I had thought I recalled seeing him mentioned in old Sword material. (Thank you Pastorj for taking the time to answer my previous question!)

Was Hyles preaching and writing doctrinally correct?

[Wilchbla]

Hyles preaching really help me early on in my Christian life. A camp I spent some time at had a bunch of his preaching tapes. He was never much on doctrine but was terrific with illustrations and lessons of life. When you preach the word as hard as he did you're bound to make enemies. Remember, before Paul died, all men had forsaken him.