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Big night for tea party: O'Donnell wins Delaware

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John81
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Some moderates are more socially conservative than others, so this blanket statement doesn't apply to all moderates. Many moderates view a lot of these things as issues that the federal government should leave alone, regardless of whether or not they privately condone or support these things in their personal lives. I would say that a lot of moderates don't believe in forcing their moral world view on others, no matter what it is. This cannot be said for either the far right or the far left.


Nice dodge :thumb:

The fact is the government doesn't operate according to original intent. In fact, very far from it. Unless such is ever changed those in office must operate under the system as is in order to accomplish anything, or they can use such as an excuse to appear to make no stand...which they are making a stand by taking that position.

If these "many moderates" truly view many things as something the Feds shouldn't be involved in why aren't they working to get the Feds out of these areas? What moderates are working to end unconstitutional agencies or programs; or to get the Feds out of the abortion or homosexual "marriage" issue?
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Yes, but tea party candidates are generally far right leaving me still with where are moderates supposed to go with the tea party hijacking the GOP?

Far right? Conservatives "hijacking" the Republican Party?

No, we have not seen far right. We have not seen a Christian conservative.

All we see are fakes and liberals.
In Christ,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.
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Far right? Conservatives "hijacking" the Republican Party?

No, we have not seen far right. We have not seen a Christian conservative.

All we see are fakes and liberals.
In Christ,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.


There might not be a Christian conservative as you would define it. I'm not sure what your definition is, but there are conservatives that use Christian rhetoric and ideas. Whether or not they are Christians, I can't say unless I know them personally.

Far right though we have seen. And we have seen the national party pandering to its right wing base. I've said it before, but McCain picking Palin for his running mate and revising some of his stances in the 2008 election was a clear example of pandering to the right wing of the GOP.

Would you care to back up your statement with examples?
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Nice dodge :thumb:

The fact is the government doesn't operate according to original intent. In fact, very far from it. Unless such is ever changed those in office must operate under the system as is in order to accomplish anything, or they can use such as an excuse to appear to make no stand...which they are making a stand by taking that position.

If these "many moderates" truly view many things as something the Feds shouldn't be involved in why aren't they working to get the Feds out of these areas? What moderates are working to end unconstitutional agencies or programs; or to get the Feds out of the abortion or homosexual "marriage" issue?


I'm not dodging anything and you know it. Anyone who reads my posts knows that I don't shy from saying what I believe, even if it results in ridicule. All I'm doing is calling out your blanket statements and your assumptions that are not based in fact.
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There might not be a Christian conservative as you would define it. I'm not sure what your definition is, but there are conservatives that use Christian rhetoric and ideas. Whether or not they are Christians, I can't say unless I know them personally.

Far right though we have seen. And we have seen the national party pandering to its right wing base. I've said it before, but McCain picking Palin for his running mate and revising some of his stances in the 2008 election was a clear example of pandering to the right wing of the GOP.

Would you care to back up your statement with examples?


Could you please do the same?

Who are the far right politicians running the Repub Party?

What does Christian rhetoric prove? OBama and Bill Clinton both use(d) such and they are in no way far right or conservative.

McCain was such a liberal he had to do something in an attempt to get non-liberal Repubs to bother to come out and vote for him. Palin, if you check her completely, isn't anywhere near as conservative as the media and Dem Party have painted her.
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I'm not dodging anything and you know it. Anyone who reads my posts knows that I don't shy from saying what I believe, even if it results in ridicule. All I'm doing is calling out your blanket statements and your assumptions that are not based in fact.


You have refused to give examples in several cases when asked in several posts in various threads.

What are your moderate positions you believe the Repub Party should stand upon?
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Could you please do the same?

Who are the far right politicians running the Repub Party?

What does Christian rhetoric prove? OBama and Bill Clinton both use(d) such and they are in no way far right or conservative.

McCain was such a liberal he had to do something in an attempt to get non-liberal Repubs to bother to come out and vote for him. Palin, if you check her completely, isn't anywhere near as conservative as the media and Dem Party have painted her.






You have refused to give examples in several cases when asked in several posts in various threads.

What are your moderate positions you believe the Repub Party should stand upon?


I have backed up my statement with examples but I will keep going if you would like. Far right conservatives? Jim DeMint, Joe Wilson, Huckabee (that's a national one you would prOBably know), yes Sarah Palin. She doesn't have a very long record to stand on, but the ideas she is presenting are very far right. And the new tea party candidate that just won? Christine O'Donnell? She is very right as well. The tea party is putting up very right wing candidates. One of them just beat out BOB Inglis of SC (another very conservative Republican) in the primary for the House race.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that you don't agree with the mainstream interpretation of what constitutes far right and moderate so we are prOBably speaking different languages here.

Could you please tell me where I have refused to give appropriate examples when asked? I don't recall where that has happened.

For your last question, I believe in moderate fiscal conservatism but moderate social liberty. I would like to see the party having the backbone to stand on those issues and to support the candidates like the John McCain of 2000, not the John McCain that would have become a puppet for the tea party.
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I have backed up my statement with examples but I will keep going if you would like. Far right conservatives? Jim DeMint, Joe Wilson, Huckabee (that's a national one you would prOBably know), yes Sarah Palin. She doesn't have a very long record to stand on, but the ideas she is presenting are very far right. And the new tea party candidate that just won? Christine O'Donnell? She is very right as well. The tea party is putting up very right wing candidates. One of them just beat out BOB Inglis of SC (another very conservative Republican) in the primary for the House race.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that you don't agree with the mainstream interpretation of what constitutes far right and moderate so we are prOBably speaking different languages here.

Could you please tell me where I have refused to give appropriate examples when asked? I don't recall where that has happened.

For your last question, I believe in moderate fiscal conservatism but moderate social liberty. I would like to see the party having the backbone to stand on those issues and to support the candidates like the John McCain of 2000, not the John McCain that would have become a puppet for the tea party.


I love a good laugh but it's mighty early in the morning for such.

Huckabee a far right conservative? Not even close. He's also not in leadership within the Repub Party and didn't even have that good of a showing in the 2008 elections.

John McCain was a liberal in 2000 and a liberal in 2008. The only thing he did in 2008 was change some of his wording to try and trick conservative Repubs into backing him. Had he been elected he would have governed according to his liberal leanings.

The tea party isn't the Repub Party and whenever the tea party promotes anyone near conservative the Repub Party fights against them.

What does this mean that you believe in "moderate fiscal conservatism but moderate social liberty"? This statement is so vague and without clear defintion it's virtually meaningless. What positions do you hold that place your beliefs into these categories you selected?
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I love a good laugh but it's mighty early in the morning for such.

Huckabee a far right conservative? Not even close. He's also not in leadership within the Repub Party and didn't even have that good of a showing in the 2008 elections.

John McCain was a liberal in 2000 and a liberal in 2008. The only thing he did in 2008 was change some of his wording to try and trick conservative Repubs into backing him. Had he been elected he would have governed according to his liberal leanings.

The tea party isn't the Repub Party and whenever the tea party promotes anyone near conservative the Repub Party fights against them.

What does this mean that you believe in "moderate fiscal conservatism but moderate social liberty"? This statement is so vague and without clear defintion it's virtually meaningless. What positions do you hold that place your beliefs into these categories you selected?


Well, the tea party isn't exactly a 3rd party either. Most of it's candidates run under the GOP ticket so it's more of a faction of the Republican party. Some in the Republican Party fight against these people, but, in my opinion, they are fighting more against the new faces than the philosophies they espouse. It's all about jOB security...

I figured we would disagree about what constitutes a far right conservative. Being in the party leadership makes no difference. Most mainstream thought would place everyone I mentioned squarely in the far right wing of the party. I'm sure you don't agree with mainstream thought and that's fine but that doesn't make it invalid.

Who do you think is far right? What do you think constitutes far right? I think defining that would prOBably help us.

Yes I'm aware the philosophy that I quoted it vague. Most are and have only meaning to those who hold the philosophy. I guess I would say on the fiscal side that I'm not for oppressive taxes or for a nanny state that takes care of people without having to work. However I am for some degree of a safety net to help society's most vulnerable (ie unemployment benefits for a certain amount of time, healthcare for poor children, etc). I think my tax dollars should support that. However, there needs to be reform b/c my tax dollars should not support people who live extravagantly but rely on the system to take care of them. This hurts those who really need help. Additionally, I believe that the government (at any level) has no business in the private lives of individuals. Yes, things like life and property rights should be protected so morals like murder and stealing should be legislated. However, personal sexual preferences among consenting adults are no one's business.

I'm sure many disagree and that's fine, to be honest I don't want my political beliefs to become the subject of debate on this thread, I was merely defining them because I was asked.
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Interestingly, on AFR today there was someone on there confronting "moderates". He pointed out there is no such thing. That whether a Dem or Repub calling themselves moderates, what it really means is they are liberals who generally support homosexual "marriage", abortion and such.

When it comes down to it Christians are to base their views and positions upon the Word of God and nothing else. Scripture tells us one of the functions of government is to thwart evil and Scripture gives examples of that which the government should stand against.

As well, Scripture is clear as to the position Christians should hold on the issues at hand. God created marriage and the family. God's Word tells us all we need to know.

The question is, are we going to follow Christ or someone else?

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Interestingly, on AFR today there was someone on there confronting "moderates". He pointed out there is no such thing. That whether a Dem or Repub calling themselves moderates, what it really means is they are liberals who generally support homosexual "marriage", abortion and such.

When it comes down to it Christians are to base their views and positions upon the Word of God and nothing else. Scripture tells us one of the functions of government is to thwart evil and Scripture gives examples of that which the government should stand against.

As well, Scripture is clear as to the position Christians should hold on the issues at hand. God created marriage and the family. God's Word tells us all we need to know.

The question is, are we going to follow Christ or someone else?


Why are you so bound and determined to say that there is no such thing as a moderate? Anyone who knows anything about politics knows that that is not the case. In fact, wherever there is a range of views to be held there will be moderates. AFR? Figures.

To be honest, the labels conservative, moderate, liberal and so on are comparative labels. Their meanings change frequently and only have meaning when being compared to other views. For example, compared to your views on many issues my views are liberal. However, compared to say, the late Senator Kennedy or perhaps Congresswoman Pelosi, many of my views are conservative. Therefore, when you examine me within the spectrum, the only fitting label is moderate.

Yes, on this board or according to AFR I am liberal. Yes, at a NOW gathering I would be conservative. However, the only way to determine a true political label is to examine beliefs within the entire range of possible views.
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Liberals have a few litmus tests and if one passes those they are considered a liberal regardless if some of their other positions are not as totally liberal.

Again though, it's not really a matter of what label one wants to call themselves, it's a matter of where we stand with regard to the Word of God.

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There might not be a Christian conservative as you would define it. I'm not sure what your definition is, but there are conservatives that use Christian rhetoric and ideas. Whether or not they are Christians, I can't say unless I know them personally.

Far right though we have seen. And we have seen the national party pandering to its right wing base. I've said it before, but McCain picking Palin for his running mate and revising some of his stances in the 2008 election was a clear example of pandering to the right wing of the GOP.

Would you care to back up your statement with examples?

Palin is not remotely "far right." Her very existence as a female politician proves she is a liberal. She is a self-proclaimed feminist.

I don't think there's much point, since what we see as 'conservative' and 'liberal' is OBviously quite different. I really can't give examples anyway, since every single person out there that I know of is messed-up.

Forgive me I am misunderstanding your question.
In Christ,
Joel ><>. Edited by Crushmaster
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Again though, it's not really a matter of what label one wants to call themselves, it's a matter of where we stand with regard to the Word of God.



:amen: That's right! We should stand with the Word of God in every area of our life and not just in the church walls on Sunday.
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I really can't give examples anyway, since every single person out there that I know of is messed-up.



This is why I stopped caring about politics about four years ago.

I think both parties stink, one just happens to smell worse then the other.
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Palin is not remotely "far right." Her very existence as a female politician proves she is a liberal. She is a self-proclaimed feminist.

I don't think there's much point, since what we see as 'conservative' and 'liberal' is OBviously quite different. I really can't give examples anyway, since every single person out there that I know of is messed-up.

Forgive me I am misunderstanding your question.
In Christ,
Joel ><>.


I know from reading your profile that you do not believe women should be in politics, but regardless of your view on that, I can assure you that Palin is not a feminist in the classic sense. The political ideologies that she espouses are very right wing. She by her own admission is trying to take back the term feminist from liberals who she believes have corrupted the word.

Conservative and liberal relative to ourselves are prOBably different, but conservative and liberal relative to the entire spectrum really shouldn't be different. I'm asking you to give examples of what you think a true conservative would be and then contrast that with all the "liberals and fakes" that we've seen. I'm not asking you to give examples of specific conservative people because you haven't claimed that they exist. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
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One of the prOBlems today is the term conservative no longer means what it did or should. Today what most people call conservatives are actually neo-cons, which are little more than warmed over liberals.

If one only listens to a bit of what Palin has said and listens to the skewed MSM they might think Palin is a conservative. However, if one looks at all she says and how she has governed and how she has conducted herself it becomes clear she is no conservative.

Yet again, these labels don't matter, or shouldn't, for a Christian. What Christians should be considering is what the Word of God says.

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Conservative and liberal relative to ourselves are prOBably different, but conservative and liberal relative to the entire spectrum really shouldn't be different. I'm asking you to give examples of what you think a true conservative would be and then contrast that with all the "liberals and fakes" that we've seen. I'm not asking you to give examples of specific conservative people because you haven't claimed that they exist. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

Ahh, I see what you're saying. Very well; I will try.

He would...
1. Be a godly man, a good husband, a good father.
2. He would read his Bible and pray consistently every day, in large quantities, with much quality.
3. He would refrain from secular movies, television, music, etc.
4. He would exhort healthy living.
5. He would hold the Bible to be the ultimate source of moral truth.
6. He would believe in much lower taxes.
7. His wife wouldn't work.
8. He would hold right views on Bible doctrines, men and women's roles, etc.
9. He would advocate the death penalty in many cases of crime.
10. He would be against abortion and homosexual marriage.
11. He would be sold out utterly and completely to God.
12. He would be brave, tough, masculine, and chivalrous.

I suppose I could put a lot more, but I hope this at least somewhat answers your request.
In Christ,
Joel ><>. Edited by Crushmaster
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Ahh, I see what you're saying. Very well; I will try.

He would...
1. Be a godly man, a good husband, a good father.
2. He would read his Bible and pray consistently every day, in large quantities, with much quality.
3. He would refrain from secular movies, television, music, etc.
4. He would exhort healthy living.
5. He would hold the Bible to be the ultimate source of moral truth.
6. He would believe in much lower taxes.
7. His wife wouldn't work.
8. He would hold right views on Bible doctrines, men and women's roles, etc.
9. He would advocate the death penalty in many cases of crime.
10. He would be against abortion and homosexual marriage.
11. He would be sold out utterly and completely to God.
12. He would be brave, tough, masculine, and chivalrous.

I suppose I could put a lot more, but I hope this at least somewhat answers your request.
In Christ,
Joel ><>.


Fair enough. I could offer some examples of a few men who meet prOBably 11 of 12 of your requirements. The only one I don't know is your #3; I'm not sure that in all cases the men I'm thinking of refrain from all secular forms of entertainment. However, rest assured that there are some politicians, some of whom I know personally that adhere to your requirements. I may not agree with everything they do, but I do respect them.
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I feel that Huckabee and Palin are far right only to the liberal democrats. Even before Huckabee got into politics he was a liberal, yet he is even more liberal today.

Most all politician's use religion for what they can get out of it, votes.

I've noticed it in local politics and its true for national politics, those who claim to be conservative by Bible standards are actually worldly liberal, and use the Bible {God} for their own purpose, try to win elections}, and only hold a form of godliness and will never take a stand on one is saved only by grace through faith, not of your self, not of works, its a free gift.

Edited by Jerry80871852
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