Guilty of More than Disobeying Church Law

[PreacherE]

Presbyterian Court Rebukes Minister for Gay Weddings

I Tim

ot

hy 4:1

'Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;'

The court showed its duplicity however, in that, while it censured Spahr for violating church law it also praised her and expressed support for her actions. The court asked that the PC(USA) "re-examine its own fear and ignorance that continues to reject the inclusiveness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." The court also went so far as to ask the forgiveness of several sodomite couples who testified at the trial. The court asked them to forgive the church for "the harm that has been, and continues to be, done to them in the name of Jesus Christ."

This goes to show just how far "Christianity" has fallen in the past 50-100 years. Groups which at one time stood on the Bible as God's infallible Word or now casting it aside in order to keep with the times. This news article here goes to show just how degenerate many have become. They have departed from the faith of God's Holy Word and instead have embraced doctrines of devils.

Let us set aside for the moment that Jane Adams Spahr is not qualified to lead a church according to I Timothy 3:2. That should throw up a red flag in itself that she would ignore the requirements God has set up for leadership within the church. She is in absolute rebellion to the Word of God in this respect as is all other women "preachers". I suppose then it should be no stretch of the imagination to think that she would attempt to put God's blessings upon something which He calls an abomination (Lev. 18:22). God said He hated it then and I tell you that He still hates it now. It is not an alternative lifestyle, but it truly is an abomination and something which is entirely unholy.

The court states that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is inclusive. If they are referring to the fact that the Gospel is for everyone then they are correct. However, God does not save us and then leave us in our sin. He calls us to be holy as He is holy (I Peter 1:16). God can and will save anybody (including a sodomite) provided they repent of their sins and turn to Christ as the only means of salvation. A person can say a prayer all they want to, they can go to church every week, attempt to let their good outweight the bad; but if they do not acknowledge before a righteous and holy God that they are a sinner then they will die in those sins and spend an eternity in Hell.

God is not for sodomy in any of its forms. His Word is very clear on that. But God does want to see those same sodomites turn from their wicked ways and accept Christ as their Saviour (II Peter 3:9). This is God's desire for all people. Sadly, many will choose to remain in their sins and will reject the free gift of salvation God has provided for them. If the PC(USA) or any other church would declare that sodomy is OK and that there is nothing wrong with it, then they are truly harming those people for they are keeping the truth of God's Word from them.

I submit that Jane Adams Spahr, the Redwood Presbytery Judicial Commission, and the PC(USA) are guilty of more than disOBeying church law. They are guilty of "having departed from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

During the brief period of June to November of 2008, the "Reverend" Jane Adams Spahr conducted 16 weddings for sodomites while it was legal in the state of California. She is known as a lesbian activist and has been a Presbyterian minister for 36 years. This past Friday, August 27, 2010, the Redwood Presbytery Judicial Commission found her guilty of misreprese

nt

ing the ceremonies as marriage, persiste

nt

ly dis

OB

eying church law, and violating her ordination vows.

[John81]

Excellent post!

I believe God is turning the wicked over to their wickedness. If we look clearly we can see the separating of the sheep from the goats going on across the country.

No true follower of Christ should be in these sorts of churches and many have already left from the Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist and other churches because of the churches departure from righteousness in order to embrace the wickedness of women "preachers", homosexual "preachers", and failing to preach the whole Word of God while not calling that which is sin by its name and allowing wickedness to abound.

Anyone in such churches should examine their salvation and if they are or if they wish to be a true follower of Christ they should flee these wicked churches immediately.

[CPR]

Here we go again...

[OFIB Preacher]

Presbyterian Court Rebukes Minister for Gay Weddings

The court showed its duplicity however, in that, while it censured Spahr for violating church law it also praised her and expressed support for her actions. The court asked that the PC(USA) "re-examine its own fear and ignorance that continues to reject the inclusiveness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." The court also went so far as to ask the forgiveness of several sodomite couples who testified at the trial. The court asked them to forgive the church for "the harm that has been, and continues to be, done to them in the name of Jesus Christ."

This goes to show just how far "Christianity" has fallen in the past 50-100 years. Groups which at one time stood on the Bible as God's infallible Word or now casting it aside in order to keep with the times. This news article here goes to show just how degenerate many have become. They have departed from the faith of God's Holy Word and instead have embraced doctrines of devils.

Let us set aside for the moment that Jane Adams Spahr is not qualified to lead a church according to I Timothy 3:2. That should throw up a red flag in itself that she would ignore the requirements God has set up for leadership within the church. She is in absolute rebellion to the Word of God in this respect as is all other women "preachers". I suppose then it should be no stretch of the imagination to think that she would attempt to put God's blessings upon something which He calls an abomination (Lev. 18:22). God said He hated it then and I tell you that He still hates it now. It is not an alternative lifestyle, but it truly is an abomination and something which is entirely unholy.

The court states that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is inclusive. If they are referring to the fact that the Gospel is for everyone then they are correct. However, God does not save us and then leave us in our sin. He calls us to be holy as He is holy (I Peter 1:16). God can and will save anybody (including a sodomite) provided they repent of their sins and turn to Christ as the only means of salvation. A person can say a prayer all they want to, they can go to church every week, attempt to let their good outweight the bad; but if they do not acknowledge before a righteous and holy God that they are a sinner then they will die in those sins and spend an eternity in Hell.

God is not for sodomy in any of its forms. His Word is very clear on that. But God does want to see those same sodomites turn from their wicked ways and accept Christ as their Saviour (II Peter 3:9). This is God's desire for all people. Sadly, many will choose to remain in their sins and will reject the free gift of salvation God has provided for them. If the PC(USA) or any other church would declare that sodomy is OK and that there is nothing wrong with it, then they are truly harming those people for they are keeping the truth of God's Word from them.

I submit that Jane Adams Spahr, the Redwood Presbytery Judicial Commission, and the PC(USA) are guilty of more than disOBeying church law. They are guilty of "having departed from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

During the brief period of June to November of 2008, the "Reverend" Jane Adams Spahr conducted 16 weddings for sodomites while it was legal in the state of California. She is known as a lesbian activist and has been a Presbyterian minister for 36 years. This past Friday, August 27, 2010, the Redwood Presbytery Judicial Commission found her guilty of misreprese

nt

ing the ceremonies as marriage, persiste

nt

ly dis

OB

eying church law, and violating her ordination vows.

PreacherE, you're exactly right!
Such goings-on aren't true biblical Christianity! I also submit, that, even back in McGee's day, there were issues with disOBeying God's word!
This may be a little off topic, but, dare I mention, that, Presbyterians are Calvinists?

[OFIB Preacher]

Excellent post!

I believe God is turning the wicked over to their wickedness. If we look clearly we can see the separating of the sheep from the goats going on across the country.

No true follower of Christ should be in these sorts of churches and many have already left from the Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist and other churches because of the churches departure from righteousness in order to embrace the wickedness of women "preachers", homosexual "preachers", and failing to preach the whole Word of God while not calling that which is sin by its name and allowing wickedness to abound.

Anyone in such churches should examine their salvation and if they are or if they wish to be a true follower of Christ they should flee these wicked churches immediately.

How true!
I'll even go as far as to say, it's even happening in our IFB churches! I see countless "Christians" turning their backs on what they "believed" and doing their own thing. Truely sad, but, they're choosing their way! I've never seen it like this, in my 17 years since the LORD saved me!

[OFIB Preacher]

Here we go again...

With what?

[John81]

With what?

People are posting the Word of God and the biblical idea (command actually) that anyone calling themselves Christians are to abide in and by the Word of God. The idea that Christians are expected by Jesus to actually act like Christians, living according to the Word of God in all areas of their lives, isn't popular with many.

The truth is, the Word of God is timeless and Scripture tells us the Word of God never passes away. True followers of Christ will always put forth the Word of God again and forever.

[trc123]

People are posting the Word of God and the biblical idea (command actually) that anyone calling themselves Christians are to abide in and by the Word of God. The idea that Christians are expected by Jesus to actually act like Christians, living according to the Word of God in all areas of their lives, isn't popular with many.

The truth is, the Word of God is timeless and Scripture tells us the Word of God never passes away. True followers of Christ will always put forth the Word of God again and forever.

I believe the reference was to the constant verbal barrage about the author's denomination and/or church affiliation.

[JerryNumbers]

Once a church such as Presbyterian's makes compromise, they keep right on turning their backs on Jesus, and going deeper into sin.


And why do they call Jesus Lord?


And why call me, Lord, lord, and not do the things which I saw? Luke 6:46


Yet they fail to OBey Jesus. If the truly OBeyed Jesus a woman would not be in such a postilion.

[John81]

A false church and churches which preach, teach and/or accept that which is sin are to be exposed. Christians are to speak the truth, to lead people away from wickedness and error.

If I were a member of a false or wayward church and failing to OBey the Word of God in leaving such I would certainly hope some faithful Christians would point this out to me and the rest of the congregation. In such a case it's possible some or all of us are not saved at all and we really need to examine our salvation to discover this and allow the Holy Ghost to lead us to actual salvation in Christ. In such a case one or more are saved from hell and the angels in heaven rejoice. If the faithful Christians fail to sound the warning and shine the light of truth it's possible one or more will never have another opportunity to hear the truth and will unwittingly die in their sins to one day hear Christ tell them they must depart and be cast into hell.

Churches that are clearly out of the will of God include the Episcopal, Presbys and United Methodists, among others such as Church of Christ, various Charismatic churches, etc., as well as the non-Christian church many falsely believe is Christian, the RCC, along with the newly accepted as Christian Mormon church.

How many lost folks sit in these churches going along with ungodliness believing they are okay with God? They need the truth as much as the lost non-church goer or the Muslim or Hindu.

There are a few professing Baptists who have posted here of late some ungodly views and many have shined the light of truth there as well.

Are we going to stand for Christ or not?

[CPR]

I'm going to regret getting involved, but I guess this was going to play out sooner or later...

What I find interesting is that Baptists and most other non-Catholics did not like the old Catholic church's insistence that their church was the only true one and the only one for true Christians or that could truly save you. However, don't tell a fundamentalist Baptist that you aren't a Baptist because then apparently you are likely not even saved. If you are saved, you are either backslidden, ignorant of God's Word, or not wanting to really follow Jesus. Yet in the same breath they'll tell you that the church doesn't save you. I agree, the church doesn't save you. However, it seems that they really think that the Baptist church is the only "right" one.

Now John, I know you're going to say that your church is technically non-denominational, but I'm pretty sure you would call yourself a Baptist and that your church operates just like a Baptist church save the name on the door.

All I'm saying is what my mom told me once when I was younger. God's box is a lot bigger than the box a lot of people try to make him fit in.

[John81]

I'm going to regret getting involved, but I guess this was going to play out sooner or later...

What I find interesting is that Baptists and most other non-Catholics did not like the old Catholic church's insistence that their church was the only true one and the only one for true Christians or that could truly save you. However, don't tell a fundamentalist Baptist that you aren't a Baptist because then apparently you are likely not even saved. If you are saved, you are either backslidden, ignorant of God's Word, or not wanting to really follow Jesus. Yet in the same breath they'll tell you that the church doesn't save you. I agree, the church doesn't save you. However, it seems that they really think that the Baptist church is the only "right" one.

Now John, I know you're going to say that your church is technically non-denominational, but I'm pretty sure you would call yourself a Baptist and that your church operates just like a Baptist church save the name on the door.

All I'm saying is what my mom told me once when I was younger. God's box is a lot bigger than the box a lot of people try to make him fit in.

As myself and others have stated before, it's got nothing to do with the name of the church but everything to do with what they teach, preach, accept and separate from.

If a church teaches the one and only means of salvation and they disciple folks to follow and OBey Christ in all things, if they refuse to yoke with wickedness, false teachings, false religions and those who do, and the pastor meets the biblical qualifications, is biblically born again in Christ and preaches the whole Word of God, then this is a church worth considering.

If a church teaches anything other than or in addition to the one and only means of salvation or they fail to disciple folks to follow Christ in all things, or they refuse to separate themselves from wickedness, false teachings, false religions and those associated with such, if the pastor doesn't meet the biblical qualifications or isn't biblically born again in Christ or fails to preach the whole Word of God, then such a church should be rejected by anyone professing to be a Christian.

The Word of God, not myself or anyone else, declares that those who claim to be Christian but refuse to follow Christ in all things need to examine their salvation. They need to first of all determine whether or not they are biblically born again in Christ or not. If not, they need to be. If they are then they need to ask why they refuse to accept Christ as Lord and instead put themselves in His rightful place. Then they need to repent and follow Christ.

The standards of God are high and His way is specific. If we are unwilling to OBey His Word that means we are putting other things/people/ourselves above God and we are not following Christ but our own way.

The way of Christ is narrow and He expects and commands that we walk the narrow path. The wide path, which leads to destruction, is filled with many options, none of which are of Christ.

As Scripture says, choose you this day whom you will serve! This is something we all have to do. We can't follow Christ and ourselves. We can't walk in disOBedience and walk in Christ at the same time.

[CPR]

I'm sure glad God determines salvation and not some of his followers!

You know, I have chosen my denomination and my physical church because of where God has led me. I can worship in a meaningful way that I was never able to before in other churches. I'm also able to serve. There are so many wonderful Christian people who want to reach out and help others and make the world a better place in whatever way they can. I think that this is a very important part of church.

You don't have to agree with me and that's okay. However, to doubt the salvation or the desire to follow Christ of someone just because they do not attend the church that you think they should is very, very wrong. That kind of thinking and small mindedness drives people away from Christianity.

[John81]

I'm sure glad God determines salvation and not some of his followers!

You know, I have chosen my denomination and my physical church because of where God has led me. I can worship in a meaningful way that I was never able to before in other churches. I'm also able to serve. There are so many wonderful Christian people who want to reach out and help others and make the world a better place in whatever way they can. I think that this is a very important part of church.

You don't have to agree with me and that's okay. However, to doubt the salvation or the desire to follow Christ of someone just because they do not attend the church that you think they should is very, very wrong. That kind of thinking and small mindedness drives people away from Christianity.

I never questioned your salvation. I pointed out that Scripture tells each of us that if we are not truly following Christ, the first thing we are to do is examine our salvation. That's from God, not me.

God does not lead anyone to sin and yoking with an unbiblical is sin. Remaining in such a church is to continue in sin and is an act of rebellion. This according to Scripture, which is the Word of God.

None of what you have stated about the church you attend are biblical reasons to be there. A church that rejects abiding in Christ, following Christ as Lord, can do no real good in God's eyes. As Christ tells us, if we don't abide in Him, we can do nothing.

It saddens me, but the fact is the church you choose to be yoked with is unbiblical and is going the way of the Word. Many biblical Christians who were once a part of that church have OBeyed Christ and left that church, separating themselves from the ungodly wickedness. This week there were even some on the radio talking about how in some of those churches, once the Christians departed, there wasn't much left of them. Of course they lamented the churches where many are choosing to abide in ungodliness for the sake of tradition, self or other unbiblical reasons. They were talking of that church as a whole, but most were from New England and much of the specific details were regarding the churches in New England.

Again, the church you have yoked to isn't the only unbiblical church out there but it's one of them. Those who choose their own will over God's by staying in such churches have placed themselves above God, and that's a dangerous thing to do.

God does not lead one to disOBey His Word, God does not lead one to join or remain in churches His Word declares as ungodly.

God calls the followers of Christ to separate from wickedness and to be joined together in churches which abide in Christ and OBey His commands.

The last time we had to look for a new church home my wife and I both wanted to find a Baptist church. As it turned out, most of the Baptist churches within this area have turned away from their roots. I could have chose to take my family to the one Baptist church which was "better" than the others but there were still too many unbiblical aspects to even that one so I checked out other churches. Even once finding the church we eventually joined we had the choice to attend there because it was biblically sound, or attending the least unbiblical of the Baptist churches in the area because it was Baptist. In reality, the choice was between OBeying the Word of God in the choice of church or in following our own desire to be in a Baptist church. Thankfully we chose to OBey God rather than anyone or anything else.

OBeying God is a choice. Whether the church we attend or anything else, we have the choice to OBey God or set self above God and walk in rebellion. Often one telling sign we are not walking in the Spirit is how our emotions get riled up by our flesh. Our flesh wants its own way and anger, defensiveness and other emotions rise up when confronted.

Christ says if we love Him we will keep His commandments. It's not about me, it's not about you, it's not about anyone else. It's about abiding in Christ, loving Him above all and keeping His commandments.

[John81]

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disOBedient, and unto every good work reprOBatee. Titus 1:16

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7:22-27

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. 2 Corinthians 13:5