Beware of Michael Pearl's No Greater Joy Ministry

[OFIB Preacher]

Those putting out "Christian" books for the sake of selling books rather than for the sake of teaching solid biblical teachings, are a major prOBlem. So many of these books are filled with fluff and worse are those filled with pop-psychology disquised as Christian teaching.

We would be far better off with over half the books on "Christian" bookstore shelves not having been written. I'd rather have a small library of solid biblical books than what is to be found in most "Christian" bookstores.

If these writers were truly seeking to glorify Christ with their books, CDs and DVDs they would be biblically sound and they would not sell them at such inflated prices.

AMEN Brother, 100%!

[OFIB Preacher]

I agree with that. No prOBlem with setting a fair price upon ones work. What I was speaking of is those who set inflated prices for their works. This is especially a prOBlem with those selling CDs and DVDs, but also applies to some regarding books as well.

If bulk CDs of a sermon or teaching series can be made for a total cost of one dollar per CD, is one really trying to honour God or line their pockets by selling these CDs for 25 dollars?

Brother, AMEN, again!
This kind of thing, reminds me of an "Evangelist" I know! Everywhere he goes and even on his website, he cells a single cd for (get this) $12.00! Come on now! That's unreal!

[Annie]

Brother, AMEN, again!
This kind of thing, reminds me of an "Evangelist" I know! Everywhere he goes and even on his website, he cells a single cd for (get this) $12.00! Come on now! That's unreal!

Gentlemen, I completely agree that ministers of God should not charge exorbitant amounts for their supplies and resources. But I don't think it is exorbitant to charge $12.00 for a copy of a recording which cost thousands of dollars to produce. I don't know if that's the kind of CD you're talking about here, but I do know firsthand that a quality vocal/group recording (especially one with orchestration) costs quite a bundle to produce, and these costs (studio fees, orchestra/instrumentalists' fees, royalties, permission/copyright costs, vocalists' pay, mixing fees, traveling and other expenses, etc.) have to be paid out of pocket up front. This cost isn't even recouped (the guy doesn't even "break even") until at least a hundred or so CD's sell. In cases like this, it's a real step of faith to embark on such a venture, since there's no guarantee the recording will sell well enough to recoup the cost of production. So, in my experience (again, prOBably totally different people than the ones you've referred to), $12.00 really isn't that much for a quality recording.

Now, if you're talking about a sermon CD that costs a couple of dollars to produce, I agree that the price shouldn't be set at $12.00. I wouldn't see anything wrong, though, with charging $4 or $5 for such a CD, plus shipping cost. Edited August 26, 2010 by Annie

[Brother Rick]

Brother, AMEN, again!
This kind of thing, reminds me of an "Evangelist" I know! Everywhere he goes and even on his website, he cells a single cd for (get this) $12.00! Come on now! That's unreal!

CDs and books aren't cheap to get out there.

My wife and I still haven't broken even on her last CD which was done four years ago.

Here are some of the concerns that Christians who create CDs have to deal with:

1. The CDs themselves cost anywhere from $7-10 to professionally make.
2. Paying for cover design.
3. Paying to have the CDs shipped to your residence, and then storing them.
4. Tracking down people and making sure copyright fees are paid so you're not doing anything illegal.
5. Getting people to help you with vocals and instruments, or paying for it.
6. Dealing with the fact that many good Christians out there have no prOBlem with pirating your CD and giving it to friends to be "a blessing".
7. Managing the tight-rope of giving CDs to friends and family, and somehow selling enough along the way to pay for the investment.
8. Trying to be a blessing, and trying to figure out a way to pay for it all.

Here are some of the concerns that Christians who write books have to deal with:

1. Distributer discount. Say you sell a book for $12, and it cost $4 to print - you just made $8, or 200%. Right? Wrong. If you sold it through your distributor, which most books are, you lost 40% to 60% off the top. Meaning, your distributer just took $5-$7 off your book. So, once you factor the cost to print the book you actually sold it for $5-$7, your profit is now $1-$3 a book, and we're just getting started.
2. The cost to ship the books to your residence, and then to your distributor.
3. Paying for a book cover. Great content with a lousy cover equates to no sales, because people do judge a book by its cover.
4. Paying for advertising, if you do it.
5. Paying for a book trailer, if you do one.
6. Dealing with the fact that many Christians pirate other Christian's stuff to be a "blessing" to others. This could include charts and illustrations. Why buy your book when I can find all the charts online and print them up? Never mind the work you did, or that the person broke the law to put your stuff up there.
7. Dealing with Christians that would pay you $2,000 to work for a week and half painting their house, but think a book you spent 1-3 years working on should be free. Edited August 26, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[Annie]

CDs and books aren't cheap to get out there.

My wife and I still haven't broken even on her last CD which was done four years ago.

Here are some of the concerns that Christians who create CDs have to deal with:

1. The CDs themselves cost anywhere from $7-10 to professionally make.
2. Paying for cover design.
3. Paying to have the CDs shipped to your residence, and then storing them.
4. Tracking down people and making sure copyright fees are paid so you're not doing anything illegal.
5. Getting people to help you with vocals and instruments, or paying for it.
6. Dealing with the fact that many good Christians out there have no prOBlem with pirating your CD and giving it to friends to be "a blessing".
7. Managing the tight-rope of giving CDs to friends and family, and somehow selling enough along the way to pay for the investment.
8. Trying to be a blessing, and trying to figure out a way to pay for it all.

Here are some of the concerns that Christians who write books have to deal with:

1. Distributer discount. Say you sell a book for $12, and it cost $4 to print - you just made $8, or 200%. Right? Wrong. If you sold it through your distributor, which most books are, you lost 40% to 60% off the top. Meaning, your distributer just took $5-$7 off your book. So, once you factor the cost to print the book you actually sold it for $5-$7, your profit is now $1-$3 a book, and we're just getting started.
2. The cost to ship the books to your residence, and then to your distributor.
3. Paying for a book cover. Great content with a lousy cover equates to no sales, because people do judge a book by its cover.
4. Paying for advertising, if you do it.
5. Paying for a book trailer, if you do one.
6. Dealing with the fact that many Christians pirate other Christian's stuff to be a "blessing" to others. This could include charts and illustrations. Why buy your book when I can find all the charts online and print them up? Never mind the work you did, or that the person broke the law to put your stuff up there.
7. Dealing with Christians that would pay you $2,000 to work for a week and half painting their house, but think a book you spent 1-3 years working on should be free.

I think we posted at the same time, Brother Rick. I hear ya, having been involved myself both in writing books (have published 3 to date) and participating in the production of several CD's, all of which cost much time and money to produce. My goal is certainly not to make a profit (I don't even know how much money my books have brought in...I receive an occasional check); the books and CD's are priced as low as possible so that just about anyone can afford them, and we're able to break even and perhaps make a (very) little bit (although, as you mentioned, it's hard to know if you're really "making money" when you consider the hours that went into writing/producing the material...the "hourly wage" would figure out to be less than $1.00 for sure). Edited August 26, 2010 by Annie

[Brother Rick]

That's cool, do you have a site for you books and CDs?

I started writing my book on Revelation just so I could understand the subject better, then I read a book about getting your book published. Once I realized my study was going to wind up around the 200 page mark instead of the 15 page mark (I'm a big underestimater) I thought I should try it out.

[Annie]

That's cool, do you have a site for you books and CDs?

I started writing my book on Revelation just so I could understand the subject better, then I read a book about getting your book published. Once I realized my study was going to wind up around the 200 page mark instead of the 15 page mark (I'm a big underestimater) I thought I should try it out.

Sounds great, brother! (I PM-ed you about your question.) I've toyed with the idea of writing a humorous/poignant book about motherhood...just a "fun," not necessarily "sacred" project. I have 77 pages of material so far...including anecdotes about adopting a pet from the humane society, and a flea infestation when I was nine months pregnant...but I'd for sure have to write under a pen name; some of the content would be embarrassing to our family if our readers knew our true identity! LOL Don't know if I'll ever publish it, but it sure has been fun collecting all the anecdotes, and recording all the epiphanes! Edited August 27, 2010 by Annie

[JerryNumbers]

Brother, AMEN, again!
This kind of thing, reminds me of an "Evangelist" I know! Everywhere he goes and even on his website, he cells a single cd for (get this) $12.00! Come on now! That's unreal!

Yes, like one SBC Church that broadcast Sunday morning services on TV. After each service they offer videos & or tapes of the services for a big price, never offering to send out literature freely to anyone that requests it.

Yes, its true, many are out for their bank account, not to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, its just a tool for making money for many.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Seems this applies to many churches and their pasotrs, out trying to make money instead of freely supporting spreading the Word.

[John81]

Blank CDs are extremely cheap. If a sermon is copied by the church the CDs can be duplicated for less than a dollar apiece. Our church does this and offers them free. It was discussed charging a dollar for the CDs to help cover expenses but our pastor said it would be better to absorb the small cast to produce the CDs and hopefully get the Word out to more folks.

With regards to the other things which require publishers and such, of course there is cost involved and the final profit margin isn't as large as many might think. As has been stated, folks should receive a fair price, but many don't seek a fair profit margin but a highly inflated one. If these works are being put out for the glory of God they should be put forth as inexpensively as possible and profit should be of minimal concern.

[Anon]

If a pastor takes time out to write a book, then the proceeds from the book should help support his family.

I'm not saying it should be outrageous but he should be paid for his time and effort taken from his family in order to write the book for our benefit.

I've definitely seen outrageous stuff from evangelists too...I can understand if they need to support their family with sales...but the ones I know of have diamond rings and fancy stuff so I think they are going a bit too far.

Moderation...and its not our place to judge pricing like that...just buy it or don't, eh?

[John81]

If a pastor takes time out to write a book, then the proceeds from the book should help support his family.

I'm not saying it should be outrageous but he should be paid for his time and effort taken from his family in order to write the book for our benefit.

I've definitely seen outrageous stuff from evangelists too...I can understand if they need to support their family with sales...but the ones I know of have diamond rings and fancy stuff so I think they are going a bit too far.

Moderation...and its not our place to judge pricing like that...just buy it or don't, eh?

Are the books put forth for the glory of God or the enrichment of the writer. That's a valid question to ask. As you point out, many of these writers have full-time pay coming in already, they don't need money from book sales in order to care for their families.

A few pastors actually don't take any profit from their books. The Lord is already providing for them through their pastorate and they want the books written to be fully for the glory of God and not their own enrichment, so they have all profits from their works go to the church, go for missionaries, a Christian school, etc.

It's very telling that one can look at two nearly identical style books of similar size put forth by the same publishing house and yet one book may sell for 12 dollars while the next sells for 30.

A church can produce sermon CDs for much less than a dollar each yet some ministries charge, or require a "donation", of 20 or more dollars for these.

[Anon]

I'm just saying that its really not our business to know if the pastor (or whoever) wrote it, sharing his knowledge, to make extra money...or if he wrote it to be a help. Its between him and God.

So I'm just saying..if you want to buy it, do..if you don't, don't... sometimes I think we get an idea that nOBody who serves God is allowed to make money.

I guess I agree with some of what's being said here, but I don't like it turning into an attack session on pastors and evangelists who actually make a few extra bucks...people with regular jOBs get to do that every day....pastors and evangelists often live by faith, and if they make extra money because their family sings or he writes books....then its their business between them and God. Just buy the book, or don't. Ya know?

[Annie]

Kita and John, I've enjoyed reading your exchange here... and I think both of you are right! As you've said, it's not for us to judge motives; on the other hand, we are called upon to judge "fruits." Kita, I too would be a bit leery of evangelists (or pastors, for that matter) who flash diamond rings, drive fancy cars, and are ostentatious in other ways. John, I agree that $20 seems way too much to charge for a sermon CD, especially if by all other appearances the ministry charging such an amount seems, like Kita's evangelist, to be "all about making money." I think we can sense these things without "judging," don't you? I'm glad I don't know any evangelists or desire CD's from any ministries like the ones y'all have described.

I am personally acquainted with people who, as part or most of their living, sell resources and CD's. I know for a fact that these people put hours and hours of time into their work...and that's really what makes the end products valuable. I am willing to pay what they charge, because I recognize this value, and I know how much time and effort was put into the creation and production of these resources. Others who do not know the "behind-the-scenes" stuff might not understand why the CD's, Bible studies, and sermon series sell for so much.

I guess the upshot is this: since I don't always know the "behind-the-scenes" truth about the labor/cost involved, I can't properly judge a person for how much he's charging for, say, a sermon CD. I can, however, make a value/sense judgment about whether or not I think it would be worth it to me personally to buy that resource. I can choose whether to buy it or not, as Kita said, without fretting and stewing and judging motives.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Annie

[trc123]

Are the books put forth for the glory of God or the enrichment of the writer. That's a valid question to ask. As you point out, many of these writers have full-time pay coming in already, they don't need money from book sales in order to care for their families.

A few pastors actually don't take any profit from their books. The Lord is already providing for them through their pastorate and they want the books written to be fully for the glory of God and not their own enrichment, so they have all profits from their works go to the church, go for missionaries, a Christian school, etc.

It's very telling that one can look at two nearly identical style books of similar size put forth by the same publishing house and yet one book may sell for 12 dollars while the next sells for 30.

A church can produce sermon CDs for much less than a dollar each yet some ministries charge, or require a "donation", of 20 or more dollars for these.

While there are times that another person's motives are easily determined, most times there is not an easy way to "see" that. If you go around constantly trying to evaluate every minuet motive and action of every single person you interact with you are not only going to be exhausted, but you are going to live a very sad and suspicious life. Why not worry about the one's who are OBvious and leave the others in the hands of the Lord to judge?

[John81]

While there are times that another person's motives are easily determined, most times there is not an easy way to "see" that. If you go around constantly trying to evaluate every minuet motive and action of every single person you interact with you are not only going to be exhausted, but you are going to live a very sad and suspicious life. Why not worry about the one's who are OBvious and leave the others in the hands of the Lord to judge?

I actually have no idea what you are talking about here.

All I've said is that charging inflated prices isn't right. There is nothing wrong with making a profit, but not inflated profits. Why sell a sermon CD for 20 dollars that can be produced for 50 cents? OBviously such is about making money rather than getting the sermon out there. I like the way our church gives these CDs to all who ask but I have no prOBlem with those who want to have a small charge to cover the expense or even to bring in a bit more than that.

The point is, putting such things forth should be for the glory of God, not for inflated profit. If the material being put forth is something one believes God wants people to read, hear or watch, then such should be put forth as affordably as possible so more many receive it. Of course, of someone is putting forth material just for the sake of making money and haven't really sought the Lord in the matter, then they might as well charge all they want because if the Lord's not in it it's better that fewer can afford it.

For those Annie mentioned who are in the business of productions or their only source of income is in what they put forth then like I said previously, there is nothing wrong with charging a fair amount, but no justification for inflated prices.

Most all of us make judgements every day, or weekly, with regards to whether a product is being sold at a fair price or an inflated price. Such isn't making some sort of wrongful judgement but about using discernment. Then, as Suzy says, we can make our decision as to whether or not we buy the product or not. This is true for biblical books as well as laundry detergent or new and used cars.