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I just don't understand the mentality that God would ask saved believers to give LESS than what Jews had been giving under the law for centuries. Everything I see in the New Testament tells me that people were following God's leading to give MORE than a tithe. In my opinion, tithing is basic...then God leads in our hearts to go far above and beyond that, "according to measure".

But of course this discussion will go on forever....we have to agree to disagree.

God didn't require 10% of all the Jews, just the farmers and herders.

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God sometimes leds me to give less - as in the church is being mislead, don't give. I think God also doesn't direct me to make an offering to a particular place as He hasn't been directing me to give exactly 10% - which are both types of laws, and the "tithers" have been making a law about how much and where both from OT law.

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God sometimes leds me to give less - as in the church is being mislead, don't give. I think God also doesn't direct me to make an offering to a particular place as He hasn't been directing me to give exactly 10% - which are both types of laws, and the "tithers" have been making a law about how much and where both from OT law.

Peter told the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 that the Gentile Believers were not to be put under the yoke of bondage in the Mosaic Law. Gentile Believers were not to be required to keep the commandments of Moses... this included the command to tithe.

Since God was not a God of the Gentiles prior to the cross, I cannot believe that they were paying tithes to Him prior to the cross. There is no evidence that they did from what I can tell.

That said, it is absolutely wrong for pastors, or anyone else for that matter, to tell Gentile Believers today that they must give 'x' amount of their income to God.

The Gentile Believer should however pray to God asking Him as to what He would have them give and then give that amount cheerfully and willfully that they feel God wants from them.

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God didn't require 10% of all the Jews, just the farmers and herders.





Peter told the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 that the Gentile Believers were not to be put under the yoke of bondage in the Mosaic Law. Gentile Believers were not to be required to keep the commandments of Moses... this included the command to tithe.

Since God was not a God of the Gentiles prior to the cross, I cannot believe that they were paying tithes to Him prior to the cross. There is no evidence that they did from what I can tell.

That said, it is absolutely wrong for pastors, or anyone else for that matter, to tell Gentile Believers today that they must give 'x' amount of their income to God.

The Gentile Believer should however pray to God asking Him as to what He would have them give and then give that amount cheerfully and willfully that they feel God wants from them.



That is the problem with applying what the Bible doesn't say! None of us have mastered what it does say yet, and now we are practicing what it doesn't say!

Another problem I see with the op's posts is that we too often isolate the Word to a few people instead of an all-inclusive Word of God. I mean, when we, to support our argument, say that God only talks to a certain group at a time, then we may as well cut out the parts that don't belong to us! Otherwise, we are reading that which is none of our business; other peoples mail, so to speak. If I can do that then Mt. 28:19,20 were talking to the apostles, and are not required for us today! That, of course, is foolishness, and it would make soul winning to be foolishness too!

All of us need to be careful of thinking we know the mind of God,(including myself!) and what pleases Him, in all truth, we barely get by in His sight, and without grace, we would miserably fail Him. I have said many times that "God wants...." and I should have perhaps bitten my tongue, but if the scripture is clear on the matter, which I believe it to be, then we can speak on behalf of the Word.

My own logic, and my relationship with the Lord, lead me to see that tithing is good for us, and not meant to demeaning or demanded of God. We ought to be glad to that the Lord only required 10% and not much more! He deserves it all, plus some! Tithing will help take our eyes off riches (or the lack of) and allow us to have our needs met, and still focus on Jesus. If I have to worry and plan and fret all day about "making ends meet" then I am not trusting the Lord for the things that even the Gentiles worry about (Mt. 6)
Everyone is free to believe what they want, of course, because of that free will of man, but not every one will be able to say that the Lord told them differently than others. Why should He tell you not to tithe when you ran up your own bills? We are all responsible for our actions, and unfortunately, we claim that it is that Lord that moved us in that direction--He gets the blame for a lot! It is as if He bases what we should give on the foolishness that we accrued in managing our money.

Some are going to do what's convenient for them regardless, but "as for me and my house, we will serve God". (Now some cry baby will say that I am telling them they "have" to tithe. I really don't care if you do or not, that is between you and the Lord.)

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That is the problem with applying what the Bible doesn't say! None of us have mastered what it does say yet, and now we are practicing what it doesn't say!

Another problem I see with the op's posts is that we too often isolate the Word to a few people instead of an all-inclusive Word of God. I mean, when we, to support our argument, say that God only talks to a certain group at a time, then we may as well cut out the parts that don't belong to us! Otherwise, we are reading that which is none of our business; other peoples mail, so to speak. If I can do that then Mt. 28:19,20 were talking to the apostles, and are not required for us today! That, of course, is foolishness, and it would make soul winning to be foolishness too!

All of us need to be careful of thinking we know the mind of God,(including myself!) and what pleases Him, in all truth, we barely get by in His sight, and without grace, we would miserably fail Him. I have said many times that "God wants...." and I should have perhaps bitten my tongue, but if the scripture is clear on the matter, which I believe it to be, then we can speak on behalf of the Word.

My own logic, and my relationship with the Lord, lead me to see that tithing is good for us, and not meant to demeaning or demanded of God. We ought to be glad to that the Lord only required 10% and not much more! He deserves it all, plus some! Tithing will help take our eyes off riches (or the lack of) and allow us to have our needs met, and still focus on Jesus. If I have to worry and plan and fret all day about "making ends meet" then I am not trusting the Lord for the things that even the Gentiles worry about (Mt. 6)
Everyone is free to believe what they want, of course, because of that free will of man, but not every one will be able to say that the Lord told them differently than others. Why should He tell you not to tithe when you ran up your own bills? We are all responsible for our actions, and unfortunately, we claim that it is that Lord that moved us in that direction--He gets the blame for a lot! It is as if He bases what we should give on the foolishness that we accrued in managing our money.

Some are going to do what's convenient for them regardless, but "as for me and my house, we will serve God". (Now some cry baby will say that I am telling them they "have" to tithe. I really don't care if you do or not, that is between you and the Lord.)

:goodpost:

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Some are going to do what's convenient for them regardless, but "as for me and my house, we will serve God". (Now some cry baby will say that I am telling them they "have" to tithe. I really don't care if you do or not, that is between you and the Lord.)

It is absolutely wrong (and foolish) to imply that I or anyone else is not serving God if we don't tithe our money. God did not require all people to tithe under the Law. Were those not tithing then 'not serving God?' Of course they were! They served Him in other ways.

The eye cannot say to the ear because you are not an ear you are not part of the body. The eye and the ear have different functions in the body... the eye cannot hear and the ear cannot see.

There is no Scripture in the Word of God that teaches all are to tithe, but there are Scriptures that teach that only farmers and herders were to tithe. You would be hard pressed to find one instance of either Jesus or His Apostles tithing... it's not there because they were not required to tithe.

The Pharisees added to the Word of God prior to the cross. Then, the Jerusalem Counsel tried to add to God's Word in the New Testament. Both Peter and James put a stop to that.

Today, modern preachers are putting Gentile Beleivers under a law that God's Word says was never meant for them to be under. He that is under the law is under a curse. (Galatians 3) If you choose to be under the law, then that is you. But the Word of God states that if you place yourself under the law you are to follow the whole law or you are guilty of all if you offend in any point.

Paul said we are not to be put under the law, quit trying to condemn those of us who live by the Word of God.

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My experience is God has not blessed my giving whenever I have put it under a law because the law is cursed. I also believe God has been showing me specifically not to be under any type of babylonian captivity.

Some people already know and have taken God's word, and some people are scoffing, but the truth is just what it is.
God loves a cheeful giver, and that is the gospel. Anyone that wants to put themselves or me under bondage of men for their
own private gain, church made politics and witchcraft, I avoid. That particular verse along with some others was given to
me by brothers who loved me many years ago, and its from the Lord who loved us completely:

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Edited by MaxKennedy

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My experience is God has not blessed my giving whenever I have put it under a law because the law is cursed. I also believe God has been showing me specifically not to be under any type of babylonian captivity.

Some people already know and have taken God's word, and some people are scoffing, but the truth is just what it is.
God loves a cheeful giver, and that is the gospel. Anyone that wants to put themselves or me under bondage of men for their
own private gain, church made politics and witchcraft, I avoid. That particular verse along with some others was given to
me by brothers who loved me many years ago, and its from the Lord who loved us completely:

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


FYI Don't you think Christ paid a great enough price when he died on the cross for you? Where are the works you are adding to this.

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When my husband preaches giving/tithing he preaches it to help our people...because when people give generously to God, God blesses. When people do not give to God, God doesn't bless that so much. I've heard testimony over and over and over again of God taking care of people who "take care" of God's business.

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Christ paid such a great price I can never repay Him...but I can do what I can.

Read the letters to the churches in Revelation...it speaks of overcoming, and doing right, and standing for Christ, and withstanding evil.

It didn't say much about just having a good heart until Jesus comes back.

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The Bible quite clearly tell us we will reap what we sow: if we reap bountifully we will sow bountifully. If we reap sparingly, that's how we'll sow. And, no, Paul was not giving farming advice. He was proclaiming the principle of giving. It's Bible....

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The fact is there is no biblical mandate for Christians to tithe; just the opposite as it's specifically not brought up. Christians are told in the New Testament exactly how they are to give and it's not to tithe or take examples from the system put forth for Jews in the Old Testament.

This is exactly how the Lord finally showed me the truth about Christian giving. The only argument for tithing is based upon OT laws specifically for the the Jews and wasn't a matter of money, but of agricultural products to be used for specific purposes.

The Holy Ghost specifically left out any reference or reenforcement of a tithe when He had the New Testament written. Paul gave direct instructions to Christians as to how and why Christians are to give and it has nothing to do with OT law.

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God's harvest is a harvest of souls, not a harvest of money. The parable of the sower is about the kingdom of God and sowing the word of God. The bible also says you can not worship both God and mammon. I know that even from gospel songs. Our bible gives a lot of warning about messing with money as opposed to the gospel.

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God's harvest is a harvest of souls, not a harvest of money. The parable of the sower is about the kingdom of God and sowing the word of God. The bible also says you can not worship both God and mammon. I know that even from gospel songs. Our bible gives a lot of warning about messing with money as opposed to the gospel.



very true, but why then is it an issue as to how much you give?

Those answers sound so spiritual! And quoting scripture that seemingly supports a distorted view is quite common, but it does not change a thing! I never said that you had to tithe, I said "do what you want to", it makes no difference to me.

And that partial scripture from Joshua 24:15 (which I did not quote word for word) was not meant to condemn you, it was saying that I will serve God according to the way I see it, and implies (again) you do what you will.

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What I don't understand is the fight against 10%.

Some here have said "I don't believe God mandates a tithe but I give over 10% over the course of a year." That's fine. That is making it a non issue but yet following New Testament generous, sacrificial giving.

But those who are fighting against the minimum of 10%...should we give the government more in taxes than we give to our God? We do reap what we sow.

I realize we can't always give more offerings than taxes but just making a point...we give Uncle Sam what we owe him (well if your income is enough) each year....why can't we just give God our first and best as well?

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very true, but why then is it an issue as to how much you give?

Those answers sound so spiritual! And quoting scripture that seemingly supports a distorted view is quite common, but it does not change a thing! I never said that you had to tithe, I said "do what you want to", it makes no difference to me.

And that partial scripture from Joshua 24:15 (which I did not quote word for word) was not meant to condemn you, it was saying that I will serve God according to the way I see it, and implies (again) you do what you will.

It is not our view that is distorted. There is not one instance in the whole of the Bible that states that God's tithe was ever money... not one.

They had money back then, Deuteronomy reveals they could sell their tithe for money. But then Deuteronomy goes on to say they had to buy back the tithe with the money. Money was not a tithe-able income then and it is not a tithe-able income today.

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Christ paid such a great price I can never repay Him...but I can do what I can.

Read the letters to the churches in Revelation...it speaks of overcoming, and doing right, and standing for Christ, and withstanding evil.

It didn't say much about just having a good heart until Jesus comes back.


If you are reading Revelation as overcoming by doing right, you are reading it badly - God showed me this awhile ago, and has been reminding me of it recently because I am preparing myself to witness, and its great when you see it. Jesus says be careful how you hear. Revelation condemns again and again the works of man - or working your way to heaven. It is when you keep Jesus's works to the end that you are blessed - ie its by grace, not works, lest any man boast.

Who overcomes the world? 1 Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
You overcome the world by being saved and washed in the blood of the Lamb - Jesus Christ saves us. Edited by MaxKennedy

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It is not our view that is distorted. There is not one instance in the whole of the Bible that states that God's tithe was ever money... not one.

They had money back then, Deuteronomy reveals they could sell their tithe for money. But then Deuteronomy goes on to say they had to buy back the tithe with the money. Money was not a tithe-able income then and it is not a tithe-able income today.


I'm going to think about this a little over the weekend because I think its an important point. Many of us know that the merchants of earth are (or include if you think better) preachers and the like making money off God - ie and they.. sold the souls of men. The bible says what you freely were given, freely give. How can anyone claim to charge for it? And if God didn't give it to you, why are you charging for it - because its fraud.

Freely you have received, freely give - Matthew 10. And this is how Jesus sent the apostles out. Where's the tithe collection there? Actually, the workman is worth his wages, and God will provide. That may be because someone cheerful provides for you as God directs them, or it may be something God provides more direct than that - or it may be nothing at all if you are a poor workman - but there is definately no tithing a priest here.

Matthew 8:19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 20And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

If you are charging for your gifts, this isn't how worship was conducted in the church of the New Testament. They all gave of their gifts and talents freely. Imagine if the prophets, for instance, said we want a collection. And the teachers said give me. And those with helps said only for some silver.

And not one of those gifts God charged you for.

Back in the old days, many people had churches on their farm, and during the week they farmed, and during the weekend they, freely, preached. I'm not
saying churches should never give anything to anyone, but a lot of the problems with the lukewarm church is money, and man made things revolving around
merchandising men. When I am in a church where the minister makes 70k, and is preaching a works based witnessing to his congregation instead of witnessing the Holy Bible, I tremble. And that, friend, is my current church. And least you say I should move, I don't find a lot of churches that innocent. It is the same all over, and I won't hop from one babylonian church to another, be it calling for tithes, making sacrements out of baptism or the Lord's supper, or any other of the usual man's authority over God's authority. I'm preparing to witness. I won't put my gifts where God doesn't want it. Edited by MaxKennedy

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This is why it is important for each and every person who has been adopted into the family of God by faith in the substitutionary blood of Jesus Christ on the cruel cross of Calvary to “Study to shew thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Jesus said in John 17 during His prayer to His Father acknowledging all that the Father gave Him these wonderful words that we all need to embrace and realize that He wants us to study diligently; “Sanctify them through Thy Truth; Thy Word is Truth.”

Once we learn that it is God’s Holy Word that sanctifies, that sets us apart from the world, that separates us from false teachings, then we have a responsibility to study that Word and begin to apply its truths to our walk. When we walk according to the Word of God, we will not be so easily swayed


by every wind of doctrine.

Besides the thread itself, I wanted to say - how true it is that God's Holy Word sanctifies us and sets us apart. Amen. God bless you. Edited by MaxKennedy

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What I don't understand is the fight against 10%.

Some here have said "I don't believe God mandates a tithe but I give over 10% over the course of a year." That's fine. That is making it a non issue but yet following New Testament generous, sacrificial giving.

But those who are fighting against the minimum of 10%...should we give the government more in taxes than we give to our God? We do reap what we sow.

I realize we can't always give more offerings than taxes but just making a point...we give Uncle Sam what we owe him (well if your income is enough) each year....why can't we just give God our first and best as well?


God doesn't say Christians owe a minimum of 10%. If so, that would be a law or commandment Christians would be compelled to keep rather than the giving from the heart as God leads according to NT teaching.

The government takes far more than 10%, and this is by compulsion. Scripture doesn't indicate how our giving should relate to what we are forced to give to the government. There is no comparison. For some, and even once in this country, there were no taxes or exceedingly minimal. Today Americans are faced with high taxation, and in certain States even higher, as we are taxed by the Feds and the State, plus local taxes, SS withholdings, and various other taxes for some folks. For some, nearly half their income goes to taxes.

Scripture tells us that for those who are given much, much is expected.

God doesn't need our money but He does want our hearts and He wants them to draw close enough to Him to give in accord with His will whatever the percentage turns out to be.

If God leads one to give 10% of their income then that's what they should do. Even if this is the case for some, that's not an OT tithe. If God leads some to give a different percentage then that's what they should do. I've never personally known anyone the Lord led to give a percentage, but rather a specific amount...100 in the plate each Sunday, 50 to the missions project, 60 for providing for the needy, 35 for the emergency need; that sort of thing.

God wants our hearts, and if our hearts are right with God, we will give in accord with His will, whatever that amount is.

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God doesn't say Christians owe a minimum of 10%. If so, that would be a law or commandment Christians would be compelled to keep rather than the giving from the heart as God leads according to NT teaching.

The government takes far more than 10%, and this is by compulsion. Scripture doesn't indicate how our giving should relate to what we are forced to give to the government. There is no comparison. For some, and even once in this country, there were no taxes or exceedingly minimal. Today Americans are faced with high taxation, and in certain States even higher, as we are taxed by the Feds and the State, plus local taxes, SS withholdings, and various other taxes for some folks. For some, nearly half their income goes to taxes.

Scripture tells us that for those who are given much, much is expected.

God doesn't need our money but He does want our hearts and He wants them to draw close enough to Him to give in accord with His will whatever the percentage turns out to be.

If God leads one to give 10% of their income then that's what they should do. Even if this is the case for some, that's not an OT tithe. If God leads some to give a different percentage then that's what they should do. I've never personally known anyone the Lord led to give a percentage, but rather a specific amount...100 in the plate each Sunday, 50 to the missions project, 60 for providing for the needy, 35 for the emergency need; that sort of thing.

God wants our hearts, and if our hearts are right with God, we will give in accord with His will, whatever that amount is.

:amen: Bro. John!

2 Corinthians 9:7 (KJV) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

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From Biblical Basics for Believers by Matt Costella, (Chapter 14 - New Testament Giving, pg 122-123):

The Amount To Give

A. According to ability

1. The New Testament Scriptures do not dictate a universal percentage or dollar amount to be given back to God. Rather, the believer is simply commanded to give, and he is reminded of what God has given him and that everything that he possesses belongs to God and is merely entrusted to him. This reality should stir the faithful believer to give as much as possible back to God for the work of the ministry.

2. We are commanded, as a starting point, to give according to that which we are able to give. The Word of God tells the believer to give "as God hath prospered hiim" (1 Cor. 16:2) and says everyone should give "as he purposeth in his heart." (2 Cor. 9:7)

B. Give beyond ability (sacrificially) at times

1. While all believers can give back to God, sometimes God blesses us with extra money to give, or other times He lays it upon our hearts to give more to His work, even though it might mean we will need to sacrifice some of our own wants.

2. The Apostle Paul praised God for the believers in Macedonia because they freely gave beyond their means, even though they were extremely poor and experienced great suffering and persecution. (2 Cor. 8:1-5) Ideally, believers should, like the Macedonians, give generously to the work of the Lord with all liberality. (2 Cor. 9:5,11,13)

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God wants our hearts, and if our hearts are right with God, we will give in accord with His will, whatever that amount is.

Amen, that's the 'heart' of the issue!

Proverbs 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.

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Its true Abram tithed before the law and so did Adam and Eve and their Children. God had placed it in their hearts. This though does not give us a rule to tithe but neither does the O.T. nor what was written in the gospels. the gospels are written under the O.T. economy. Jesus never tells anyone to stop going to the temple, stop sacrificing, stop paying their tithes and so forth, in fact He Himself goes to the temple and preaches. 2Tim 2 :15 we are told to "study...rightly divide the Word of truth." the key words rightly divide.
People keep taking God's Word and throwing it all together and we have to stop doing that.
Have you ever gone to lay your hands on them prayed for healing and they died. You asked God why because you did what He said for you to do in the Gospels yet He did not answer like He said He would. This happened to me when I was a very young man and when I asked my Pastor his answer was , well that happens some times. Well thats not an answer.The problem is not with God, of course. The problem is with us. We are wrongly dividing the Word of truth. We are taking it out of context. Just like tithing making people feel if they don't tithe God is going to get them, wow what kind of God would that be, like He has time to sit up there and Wait for tommy not to tithe so He can make his car break down. But I am sure we have all been told these things, I have anyways.

But when I got to study the Bible for myself I found out that hey Paul is the Apostle to the gentiles, not Peter,John, James, read Acts 15 compare to Gal.2, just read it word for word and what does it say. Who is the apostle to the gentiles? That is who we get our doctrine from his books, the church gets their doctrine from Paul.Look at all letters of all the other Peter, James and John they all heavily Jewish, lean more toward the works side. None of them talk about the Body of Christ, none of them talk just like Paul, Peter gets close in a place only showsPaul' letters, plus he praises Puals letters as scriptures, in second Peter 3:15,16. Paul says the writings of Old are for our learning, now I know he was referring to the O.T. which I feel includes the gospels, but the books we don't get our doctrine from would fall into this category also.

I know a lot of people say we live in the age of grace and then throw the O.T. out at us for money, I think its a sin.

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