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Will A Man Rob God?


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I notice the same non-Biblical arguments from Moser as I see from many.

On page 29 of his handbook, I find:



God has given us only one plan for financing His churches and that is by the tithes and offerings of His people. Tithing may be a strange word to some, but it is a Bible word.The tithe is the tenth, meaning that God's people are to bring a tenth of their incomes to the Lord for His work. It is the practice today for deductions to be made to the income for most people before they receive their pay check. Let us remember that your salary or income is the total or gross amount you make before the deductions are made, and the tenth or tithe should be paid on the gross amount.


He then goes on to state that 1 Corinthians 9:13,14 is in reference to the Temple worship in Numbers 18. (it is not)

He then uses Abram's tithe, but fails to tell the reader that that tithe was of the spoils of war.

He then uses Jacob's vow, but fails to mention that Jacob's vow was upon the condition that God meet certain requirements... one of which that Jacob be brought back to his father's land. (which did not happen for nearly 21 years) There is no mention of Jacob fulfilling that vow.

Since Moser is incorrect on his teaching concerning God's tithe in his handbook, I reject that teaching. I'll stick to the Word of God and what it instructs the New Covenant saints to do in the matters of finances and giving.

There is no instruction in the Word of God for the New Covenant saint to tithe of his or her money whatsoever.
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Moser left out so many important details of that which God required in His tithe. He didn't mention that despite the fact that money was prevalent, and that there were many avenues of occupation, only the farmers and herders were required to tithe. And their tithe was not money... it was crops, flocks and herds.

Moser also failed to tell the reader that Paul instructed that each man was to give "as he purposed in his own heart." That doesn't sound like the mandatory Pharisaic tithe that Moser is pushing to his congregation at Central Baptist Church to me. Paul did not teach a tithe at all. Instead, he taught giving cheerfully whatever one decided to give.

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Moser left out so many important details of that which God required in His tithe. He didn't mention that despite the fact that money was prevalent, and that there were many avenues of occupation, only the farmers and herders were required to tithe. And their tithe was not money... it was crops, flocks and herds.

Moser also failed to tell the reader that Paul instructed that each man was to give "as he purposed in his own heart." That doesn't sound like the mandatory Pharisaic tithe that Moser is pushing to his congregation at Central Baptist Church to me. Paul did not teach a tithe at all. Instead, he taught giving cheerfully whatever one decided to give.


If you insist on giving "crops, flocks and herds" then do it. Better yet go into N.Y. City and collect the tithe from all the churches there but, make sure you collect nothing but crops, flocks and herds.

While you're collecting that tithe in N.Y.C. please find the reference where among the Jews of the O.T. "money was prevalent." Please show this indisputable evidence of "money being prevalent" among the Jews. I find 164 references in the O.T. where "poor" is referenced. I find 25 O.T. references to "rich." Why did God require crops, flocks, and herds? Because the people had little money. Beginning in Ex. 22:25 through Zech. 11:11 you find scriptures pertaining to people who are poor. You need to stop using that to justify your doctrine of withholding.

You're calling someone who labors in the word for the salvation of men's souls a Pharisee! The verse below applies to you.


Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Edited by 1Tim115
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Shekel 43 times
Shekels 96 times
Silver more than 300 times
Gold more than 300 times.

The tithe could be sold for silver if it was too heavy to carry, but had to be bought back with the silver and eaten.
Slaves were bought with silver.
land was bought with silver
burial plots bought with silver.
Joseph was sold by his brothers for 20 pieces of silver.
The list goes on and on.

You really have not studied out the customs of the Old Testament, have you? Money was indeed prevalent in the Old Testament.

And yes, I do call Moser a pharisee. He requires a tithe of money where it is clear God never instructed such.. He is guilty of doing the very thing the Pharisees did in Jesus' day. They required people to follow commands that were not given by God. Moser commands people to do something that was not instructed by God.

And no, that verse in Matthew 23 does not apply to me. I have not taught a single thing that can be disputed using God's Holy Word.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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SFIC, I am curious to your reasons behind this non negotiable viewpoint that you have taken a very strong stand on. I have read all your posts concerning the tithe and also your stand on the MV portraying Jesus as a liar. I have also had some words with you in the past on other threads regarding salvation. You always seem to take a stand on some fine point of doctrine and argue it to death, regardless of the out come (if there is ever one) and regardless on whether no one agrees with you and they often end up locked by a mod.

So I have some questions if you would please answer:

  • Do you think it a sin to teach the tithe as an example or guideline for NT giving?
  • Do you think it a sin to teach salvation from any other bible version other than the KJV?
  • If it is a sin to teach tithing as an example, then if that person does not repent of that sin, are they going to hell?
  • If it is a sin to teach salvation from a MV, then if that person does not repent of that sin, as a soul winner doing God's work are they going to hell?

Where do you get this drive to argue a point to death when the bible clearly tells us in 2 Tim 2:14 and Tit 3:9 to "strive not about words to no profit" and to "avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law" because they "are unprofitable and vain" and are only good for "the subverting of the hearers"

Is it not then a sin to continue on arguing your one point on any particular thread once you have made your original point? And by this deduction I now ask in accordance to your standpoint on salvation requiring repentance, have you not now sinned and must therefore repent in order to secure you salvation? Or is the repentance only once off in order to be saved? I'm just curious concerning your doctrine and from where it comes having never heard this before.


And to those that disagree with me concerning settling for second best from God - some food for thought in the below verse :

1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Edited by 2Tim215
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Shekel 43 times
Shekels 96 times
Silver more than 300 times
Gold more than 300 times.

The tithe could be sold for silver if it was too heavy to carry, but had to be bought back with the silver and eaten.
Slaves were bought with silver.
land was bought with silver
burial plots bought with silver.
Joseph was sold by his brothers for 20 pieces of silver.
The list goes on and on.

You really have not studied out the customs of the Old Testament, have you? Money was indeed prevalent in the Old Testament.

And yes, I do call Moser a pharisee. He requires a tithe of money where it is clear God never instructed such.. He is guilty of doing the very thing the Pharisees did in Jesus' day. They required people to follow commands that were not given by God. Moser commands people to do something that was not instructed by God.

And no, that verse in Matthew 23 does not apply to me. I have not taught a single thing that can be disputed using God's Holy Word.


Any one stop to think that because money is a object that does not decay, and that gold and silver is universally accepted that God purposely used the fruits of the harvest as a tithe in order to curb corruption as it could not be stored for long and to show that Gods provision was renewable and daily, not to be hoarded? Just a thought I had. Edited by 2Tim215
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As to how God sent out on missions, He indeed did proscribe a method.... when ye go, take no scrip, nor money for your purse. Funny, He makes no mention of the stopping from Temple to Temple for support. He just says go, and when you get there, abide. And after Pentecost, we see the Apostles going out on missions, but don't see a single instance of them asking for support for themselves. Interesting.

I'm sorry, but I don't see money listed in those passages where Jesus commended/rebuked the Pharisees.

Why didn't He mention money as being tithed?

Oh, that's right. Money was not a titheable income. Only crops, flocks and herds.

So tell us, where is the verse that says money was titheable?
Where is the verse that says a tithe of money is to be taken to your local Church?
Where is the verse that says that people other than Levites are qualified to receive a tithe?

We say the Word of God is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice, but do we really believe this to be true? It sure doesn't look like it.


Matthew 10 also says cast our demons, do you? Matthew 10 also says raise the dead,do you? Matthew 10 also says heal the sick, do you? You can't slice and dice the commission of Matthew 10 to fit your own pet doctrine of going out like a fool without counting the cost of the tower, (Yeah, Jesus said that too).

You're a hypocrite of the most rank sort standing firm in pride. You pick and chose what fits your own smug and arrogant world view, condeming others as carnal and lacking of faith while perched above from your pharisaical tower of scorn. I'm not guessing you'll comment on the particulars of the commission you quote with largesse, since no one perfoms any of the other components, why mention the one you hold so dear, yet ignore the entire context? Matthew 10 isn't for any church age Christian. It's a Jewish commission that has no doctrinal application for us today. No one who is in the church of His body could perfom those mandates. Not you, not me, not anyone.

God bless,
calvary Edited by Calvary
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John, I am in no way saying that we should not be content in all things. That God does not provide our every need at the right time. And you are 100% right about the car, in hindsight we can always see His wisdom in His provision, even though at the time it may seem suspect, or not quite what we were hoping for, it's always for the best. What I am saying though is that we have not because we ask not. That we have been conditioned by life, false doctrine, the church and previous unanswered prayers to ask Him for little and not for much. That we give up to easily when it comes to petitioning God for a need. That we expect second best and thus that's all we ask for. God has put principles into play when it comes to prayer that He stands by. I am playing with possibilities of prayer and the outcomes of what we ask for in my thoughts here - have been for a while. And I am beginning to come to the conclusion that He wants us to ask more from Him and not give until we get it, that prayer in the lives of believers and the church is the most important thing to learn right and maintain daily with consistency. That we have forgotten how to pray and need to relearn this and that when we do then great thing will be done in His name for His glory. There is nothing wrong with money, with having it and using it, as long as one knows that it all comes from Him, belongs to Him and that we are only stewards of what He has given us and that EVERYTHING we do is to His glory.


I agree, that is a very common problem. One thing that really helped me with that was reading Dr. John R. Rice's book, "Prayer: Asking and Receiving". That said, I try to be mindful of His will and pray that His will be done in all things. Such as last year when our deep freeze stopped working and shortly after that our refrigerator stopped working. I took that to the Lord in prayer, asking for replacements. As it turned out someone in our congregation was looking to get rid of a deep freeze and refrigerator! No charge, free for the taking. The deep freeze is larger than our old one and the refrigerator is smaller than our old one. So, in once sense God provided greater in the deep freeze area while providing for basic need in the refrigerator. God provided!

I absolutely agree that we shouldn't pray little prayers because we think that's all we should or can expect from God. If we need a thousand dollars we should pray for a thousand dollars, and His will be done, not pray some weak prayer asking for God to provide us with a few bucks if He has any to spare.

No doubt we could all grow in our prayer lives, and I absolutely include myself in that, and it's unlikely our prayer lives are as consistent and encompassing as they should be. This is one reason each year I make sure to read at least one, usually more, books on prayer and to study prayer from Scripture.
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How did your church you attend decide to support the missionary? How did you find the missionary in India?

I didn't bring up your car. Praise the Lord you have a car.

Paul said we are to take care of those that labor in the word and those in need. I've already posted scripture with truth about love. Ignored and never answered by sfic. He just could not argue against God's word in an effort to advance his own strange doctrine of self-fullness.

I don't know specifically how the Lord led our church to support each missionary we do support. I know one is actually from our church, another is from this area, another our pastor has known for years, and I'm not sure about the others, but I do know it was the leading of the Lord in each case which is why we support them, I just don't know the specifics.

The Lord brought to our attention a missionary in India which was in need of help and we responded.

I can't speak for SFIC so I won't get in the middle of whatever you two are discussing.

One thing I do know is that we are not all called to the same tasks. What the Lord leads one to do, He may not lead another to do. While the Lord may lead one here, He may lead another there. God can tell you to give to X and me to give to Y. Some He gifts with greater ability to provide financial helps, others He gifts with the ability to open air preach, others He calls to spend hours a day in prayer. We each have to seek God's will for our own lives. We can't simply follow what another does and just think that's the right thing to do, though this is rather common. The Apostle Paul had a specific calling that differed from the calling of the Apostle John, yet both were in the will of God.
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I'm beginning to believe people are without in some if not many situations because God can't trust them to use his grace to further the gospel of Jesus Christ.

At the same time there are many wealthy Christians who also fail to give of their abundance. Also at the same time, there are many poor who give abundantly and would continue to do so if they became wealthy yet they remain poor.

What we do or don't have isn't necessarily a sign of God's blessing our curse. As Scripture tells us, God causes the rain to fall and the sun to shine upon the just and the unjust.

What is most important for each of us is not what another is doing but whether we ourselves are fully in the will of God or not. That is something which requires constant attention and a consistent walk with Christ.
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I reckon in your eyes the widow who gave 2 mites was also a cheapskate. After all, that was an offering. She wasn't tithing.


Nope. If the lady didn't have any income, she has nothing to "tithe" but because she was a faithfull and cheerful giver, she gave what she could.
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...only the farmers and herders were required to tithe. And their tithe was not money... it was crops, flocks and herds.


This is completely absurd. So farmers are to tithe but fat cats on Wall Street making 100x as much are not? That just doesn't jive with Malachi or the provision to pay the pastors to mention but a few.

Further discussion is meaningless until you allow the Holy Ghost to work on your heart and loosen that white knuckled grip on your checkbook.
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SFIC, I am curious to your reasons behind this non negotiable viewpoint that you have taken a very strong stand on. I have read all your posts concerning the tithe and also your stand on the MV portraying Jesus as a liar. I have also had some words with you in the past on other threads regarding salvation. You always seem to take a stand on some fine point of doctrine and argue it to death, regardless of the out come (if there is ever one) and regardless on whether no one agrees with you and they often end up locked by a mod.

So I have some questions if you would please answer:
  • Do you think it a sin to teach the tithe as an example or guideline for NT giving?
  • Do you think it a sin to teach salvation from any other bible version other than the KJV?
  • If it is a sin to teach tithing as an example, then if that person does not repent of that sin, are they going to hell?
  • If it is a sin to teach salvation from a MV, then if that person does not repent of that sin, as a soul winner doing God's work are they going to hell?

Where do you get this drive to argue a point to death when the bible clearly tells us in 2 Tim 2:14 and Tit 3:9 to "strive not about words to no profit" and to "avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law" because they "are unprofitable and vain" and are only good for "the subverting of the hearers"

Is it not then a sin to continue on arguing your one point on any particular thread once you have made your original point? And by this deduction I now ask in accordance to your standpoint on salvation requiring repentance, have you not now sinned and must therefore repent in order to secure you salvation? Or is the repentance only once off in order to be saved? I'm just curious concerning your doctrine and from where it comes having never heard this before.


And to those that disagree with me concerning settling for second best from God - some food for thought in the below verse :

1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

2Tim,
The reasons I am so strong against the teaching of 10% of one's income is the fact that the Word of God does not give any authority to anyone to require of their congregations a fixed amount of money to give, the Word of God never demanded a tithe of 10% of one's money.

As I said before, we say the Bible is our sole authority in all matters of faith and practice, but I wonder if that is really true.

The Word of God teaches to give as one purposes to give and when one does, or one teaches what the Word of God says concerning our giving, that one is looked down upon and talked bad about.

For standing for the Word of God one is wrong? It is clear it is not I that is in the wrong in this picture.
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This is completely absurd. So farmers are to tithe but fat cats on Wall Street making 100x as much are not? That just doesn't jive with Malachi or the provision to pay the pastors to mention but a few.

Further discussion is meaningless until you allow the Holy Ghost to work on your heart and loosen that white knuckled grip on your checkbook.
Farmers and herders were required to tithe, but people of other trades were not required to tithe. Neither Jesus, nor His Disciples were required because they were not farmers, nor herders.

Today, there is no requirement from God whatsoever for man to tithe... none! For one thing, there is no more a Levitical Priesthood, and they were the only ones that God gave the authority to receive His Holy tithe.

The Holy Ghost has already worked on my heart concerning my giving. He has showed me in God's Word that I am to give as I purpose what I purpose in MY heart.

swathdiver, if you can produce any proof from the Word of God that I am to tithe my money, I will gladly admit that I am in err. As yet, I have not seen any Scriptural evidence that we are to tithe our money. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Since the message is not being disproven using the Word of God, but rather the messenger is being attacked with all sorts of hateful remarks, I see no need to keep this thread open.

It is amazing how when one takes a stand for what the Word of God actually says, that one is seen as a cheapskate and a Pharisee by those who say the Word of God is their final authority in all matters of faith and practice.


:threadlockedbc5:

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