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Will A Man Rob God?


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The information Paul dispensed in his epistles is Christ's law.

†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . . We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

I'm thoroughly disgusted with the people on this topic disobeying the Lord's wishes as per the 14th chapter of Romans.

†. Rom 14:1 . . Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The koiné Greek word for "doubtful" is dialogismos (dee-al-og-is-mos') which means: discussion; viz: debate.

The word for "disputations" is diakrisis (dee-ak'-ree-sis) which means: judicial estimation; viz: one's opinions.

I can only conclude, from the ongoing debating and quarreling about tithing between people of the Christian faith that they are neither friends nor lovers of the Lord; but rather friends and lovers of their own selves.

†. John 14:15 . . If ye love me, keep my commandments.

†. John 14:21 . . He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

†. John 14:23 . . If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

†. John 15:14 . .Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

When you identify yourself as someone's follower, it means you are professing yourself to be in step with them.

†. 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

To be fair, it needs to be pointed out that the Lord's wishes stipulated in the 14th chapter of Romans apply only to his followers. So if some of you out there are not his followers, then by all means feel free to ignore what I'm saying. But followers debating with followers about a personal issue like tithing is unacceptable; and that goes for any other personal issue too; e.g. video games, music, fashions, cosmetics, diet, movies, self defense, swim suits, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, fasting, religious paintings, Bible versions, crucifixes, and holy days of obligation. Those are all matters of personal opinion rather than black and white regulations; and therefore it's a sin for the Lord's followers to debate those issues among themselves.

†. 1Cor 15:34 . . Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

C.L.I.F.F.
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For the true follower of Christ there are no "personal issues". All our lives, all we think and all we do are to be under the Lordship of Christ and for the glory of God.

Our giving is not a "personal issue" but rather something God says we are to do cheerfully as God leads in our heart.

Entertainment is not a "personal issue", God provides all we need to know in His Word to select proper entertainment and to know what is ungodly.

The same goes for all other issues. Our lives are not our own, we were bought with a price and we owe our total submisstion to Christ in all things.
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Amen, John81. I find it difficult to talk on such a hallowed subject when so many people are prone to excuse themselves from it, and make provision for the flesh.

By the way, those who have called me un-Christian for saying that a man might be poor because he doesn't tithe, had better look inside themselves and see who is judging whom! I stand on, and firmly believe what I said, because I didn't always tithe; I too tried going it without tithing at one point in life, but never could make ends meet. It didn't make sense, but when we began to tithe, things got much better, so, in my life and mind, there is truth to what I said.

You all are going to do things the way you want to anyway, so actually this entire thread is a moot point.

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For the true follower of Christ there are no "personal issues".


Personal issues can be defined as matters about which the Lord has not revealed his preferences; thus each Christian is at liberty to follow the dictates of their own conscience. In those situations, the Lord's wishes, as stipulated in the 14th chapter of Romans, are to be followed; five of which are:

†. Rom 14:3 . . Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

†. Rom 14:4 . .Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.

†. Rom 14:5 . . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

†. Rom 14:14 . . to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

†. Rom 14:22 . . Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Do you trust Baptist pastors? Look in the yellow pages for a Baptist church in your area and make an appointment with a pastor to have him explain the principles regulating personal issues in the 14th chapter of Romans. It doesn't have to be the senior pastor; an associate pastor will do.

C.L.I.F.F.
/ Edited by Webers_Home
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I've wondered sometimes whether or not tithing is actually doctrinally correct for the church age saints or not, but I've never really cared enough about it to delve super deep into it and really study it out.

It doesn't make any difference to me, my family is tithing whether we're required to or not. We've tithed when we have money and when we don't, the result is the same, God takes care of us and He blesses us. Even if He doesn't bless us, and we lose our home and everything else, it doesn't change who He is. He is still a wonderful, gracious, merciful God who's given me and my family much more than we ever would deserve.

Whether or not we're supposed to is a moot point, we're tithing anyways, and we're giving to missions.

Edited by Rick Schworer
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I've wondered sometimes whether or not tithing is actually doctrinally correct for the church age saints or not, but I've never really cared enough about it to delve super deep into it and really study it out.

It doesn't make any difference to me, my family is tithing whether we're required to or not. We've tithed when we have money and when we don't, the result is the same, God takes care of us and He blesses us. Even if He doesn't bless us, and we lose our home and everything else, it doesn't change who He is. He is still a wonderful, gracious, merciful God who's given me and my family much more than we ever would deserve.

Whether or not we're supposed to is a moot point, we're tithing anyways, and we're giving to missions.


Very true...

But we can all agree that the pastor is supposed to, Biblically, be supported by the church.

Which means some sort of giving has to be taking place.

The Jews were used to 10% as law. Grace means being a living sacrifice. I don't understand, for the life of me, how that could mean that we now have the "freedom" to just keep our income and dole out bits and pieces as we "feel led".

But hey whatever floats people's boats...I've just seen time and time again that you "can't outgive God" and the people who gave less often had the less...and the people who gave most shouldn't have had the most but often they were much more blessed than those who didn't at least trust God with 10%.
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God never told me to give 10%. He never gave 10% as a baseline for my giving. The 10% rule was confined to the borders of national Israel. The 10% was not to be required of anyone living outside of national Israel, nor was anyone that was not a Levite authorized by God to receive the tithe.

Sorry, God's Word is right, those who say 10% is required of everyone are wrong.

I could personally take you to a person who gave her alleged 'tithe' that preachers had deceived her into believing it was required of her by God. She gave this alleged 'tithe' for more than 40 years of her life. Today, she is hardly getting around. This past winter, she fell leaving her house to go to church to 'pay her tithes' and broke her back. Two years ago, she had to go bankrupt. I sat down and figured it out some time back, and she has given the church more than $50,000 in her lifetime because she believed the lie that God required it of her that was preached from the pulpit of a pastor that failed to properly study the Word of God.

Is she bitter? No. She still loves the Lord as much as she ever has.

But the fact is, had she not been put under a fear of being cursed from the preachers over the last 40 years, she may not have had that fall in which she broke her back last winter. Her main reason for going out the door was that she had to pay her tithes.

I believe many a preacher will have to answer to God for their oppression of His people in the area of finances.

I might also add that this woman is a widow and for many of those years lived miles away from her children. The Church should have been supporting her according to Paul's instructions in 1st Timothy, not her supporting the Church.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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The New Testament Scriptures do NOT dictate a universal percentage or dollar amount to be given back to God. We are commanded, as a starting point, to give according to that which we are ABLE to give. God's Word tells us to give "as God hath prospered him" (1 Corinthians 16:2). Scripture also states that everyone should give "as he purposeth in his heart". (2 Corinthians 9:7) If 10% is what you purpose in your heart to give, then give 100% of that 10%....but nowhere does it say in God's Word that everyone should give 10%, and for anyone to state that ALL believers are to "tithe" 10% is going beyond what Scripture dictates.

The Word of God tells us to give "willingly and cheerfully" to the work of the Lord. Everything we possess already belongs to God. We are only stewards of that which He has entrusted to us.

Edited by LindaR
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"Oppression?"


Okay.

Yes, oppression.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines 'oppression':

OPPRES'SION, n.

1. The act of oppressing; the imposition of unreasonable burdens, either in taxes or services; cruelty; severity.

2. The state of being oppressed or overburdened; misery.

the Lord - saw the oppression of Israel. 2Kings. 8.

3. Hardship; calamity.

4. Depression; dullness of spirits; lassitude of body.

5. A sense of heaviness or weight in the breast, &c.

Those who teach their congregations to 'tithe' their money are indeed guilty of the first definition of oppression because God never required the tithe of those living outside of National Israel. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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God never told me to give 10%. He never gave 10% as a baseline for my giving. The 10% rule was confined to the borders of national Israel. The 10% was not to be required of anyone living outside of national Israel, nor was anyone that was not a Levite authorized by God to receive the tithe.

Sorry, God's Word is right, those who say 10% is required of everyone are wrong.

I could personally take you to a person who gave her alleged 'tithe' that preachers had deceived her into believing it was required of her by God. She gave this alleged 'tithe' for more than 40 years of her life. Today, she is hardly getting around. This past winter, she fell leaving her house to go to church to 'pay her tithes' and broke her back. Two years ago, she had to go bankrupt. I sat down and figured it out some time back, and she has given the church more than $50,000 in her lifetime because she believed the lie that God required it of her that was preached from the pulpit of a pastor that failed to properly study the Word of God.

Is she bitter? No. She still loves the Lord as much as she ever has.

But the fact is, had she not been put under a fear of being cursed from the preachers over the last 40 years, she may not have had that fall in which she broke her back last winter. Her main reason for going out the door was that she had to pay her tithes.

I believe many a preacher will have to answer to God for their oppression of His people in the area of finances.



The church should help her out and take care of her.

I Tim. 5:16, "If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed."

For every one situation like this, there are many more where God provided for the people and their needs were taken care of. Not to mention we don't know this lady's whole story, we're just getting your take on it. Many times people think they can't afford to give, but that's because they spend needlessly. Many people from my parents generation (baby boomers) didn't think about the future and save or invest, and now they're in trouble.

Personally, God's always taken care of us. I have an 805 credit score even though I make around 60% less than I did before college, three children, and a car loan. Last time I tried to refi our SUV, it blew them away, they had no idea how we manage to pay our bills with our debt to income ratio and maintain good credit. It's God.

I do agree with you on one point though, If I were a pastor, I personally wouldn't compel people to tithe/give out of fear of being cursed, the motive in the New Testament is that of joy and sacrifice. Edited by Rick Schworer
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The church should help her out and take care of her.

I Tim. 5:16, "If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed."

For every one situation like this, there are many more where God provided for the people and they're need were taken care of. Not to mention we don't know this lady's whole story, we're just getting your take on it. Many times people think they can't afford to give, but that's because they spend needlessly. Many people from my parents generation (baby boomers) didn't think about the future and save or invest, and now they're in trouble.

Personally, God's always taken care of us. I have an 805 credit score even though I make around 60% less than I did before college, three children, and a car loan. Last time I tried to refi our SUV, it blew them away, they had no idea how we manage to pay our bills with our debt to income ratio and maintain good credit. It's God.

If I were a pastor, I personally wouldn't compel people to tithe/give out of fear of being cursed, the motive in the New Testament is that of joy and sacrifice.
True, the Church should have been caring for her. She is poor, has been all her life. She had to bury her husband in 1960, raised 5 kids with what money she could make through ironing and babysitting, dealt with cancer in the 80's and won that battle. In 2007, her oldest son died.

In all those years, the Church has given her seven Christmas fruit baskets and $50 dollars toward her son's funeral expenses.

Yes, the Church is indeed guilty of oppression.
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As the wife of a pastor though I'd like to defend my husband in that he is never "oppressive" and he never browbeats anyone to give, and I don't appreciate the insinuation that pastors who occasionally teach tithing and faith missions are "oppressive. He is also the most giving person I know and we have given MANY things, and money, to the poor in our church, and outside of it.

Thank you.

If those on here who want to continue using the Bible to support hoarding all of your income for yourself, go right ahead...and let us give in our pitiful ignorance.

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Any preacher who teaches the congregation that they are to tithe, whether they preach the message once a year or once every three years, it oppressing the congregation.

God nowhere gives authority to the New Testament Church to teach its congregation to tithe of their money... nowhere.

If it isn't in the Word of God, we are not to add it to the Word of God. Revelation reveals severe consequences for adding to the Word of God.

Those who teach the congregation to tithe their money are guilty of the first definition of oppression.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

1. The act of oppressing; the imposition of unreasonable burdens, either in taxes or services; cruelty; severity.


Kitagirl said:
If those on here who want to continue using the Bible to support hoarding all of your income for yourself, go right ahead...and let us give in our pitiful ignorance.


I take offense at this remark. I am not hoarding, and to insinuate that I am is wrong.

I ride around in a 14 year old vehicle. The only lukury I have is my computer. I don't have a savings account. One could walk through my home and call my banking institution and easily see I am not hoarding my money, nor am I extravagantly spending my money.

I have 7 days to go before my disability check comes in and all I have in the freezer are two salisbury steak meals, a half loaf of bread on the counter and two packages of Ramen.

We have less than $20 in our bank account at present.

We are not hoarders... not by a long shot. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Any preacher who teaches the congregation that they are to tithe, whether they preach the message once a year or once every three years, it oppressing the congregation.

God nowhere gives authority to the New Testament Church to teach its congregation to tithe of their money... nowhere.

If it isn't in the Word of God, we are not to add it to the Word of God. Revelation reveals severe consequences for adding to the Word of God.

Those who teach the congregation to tithe their money are guilty of the first definition of oppression.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary:



Kitagirl said:


I take offense at this remark. I am not hoarding, and to insinuate that I am is wrong.

I ride around in a 14 year old vehicle. The only lukury I have is my computer. I don't have a savings account. One could walk through my home and call my banking institution and easily see I am not hoarding my money, nor am I extravagantly spending my money.

I have 7 days to go before my disability check comes in and all I have in the freezer are two salisbury steak meals, a half loaf of bread on the counter and two packages of Ramen.

We have less than $20 in our bank account at present.

We are not hoarders... not by a long shot.


I feel your pain and understand your situation. May I suggest (this isn't meant to be sarcastic or flippant) that if things are that tight that you drop your internet service and buy some groceries (that is if you are using a paid service)?
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