Angry Ron Paul Defends Ground Zero Mosque

[John81]

Church and government are different entities but Christians are to be consistent in their walk with Christ whether in matters dealing with government, church or otherwise.

As LuAnne has rightly pointed out, Islam is not just some other religion. Islam is a political-religious entity which has as its stated goal the domination of every country, every people, of the entire earth. This goal is to be accomplished by every means, not only including by getting folks to voluntarily convert, but by means of deception and force of violence. Their means for accomplishing world domination include the mass murder of all who refuse to become Muslim.

Several former Muslims have come forth pointing out these facts yet the mainstream media doesn't want to give them air time.

If you were to start a religion called Org and had written in your "holy book" that everyone must become Orgites or be put to death and the ultimate aim of your religion is the total domination of the world, the overthrow of every non-Org nation and every non-Org government to be replaced by Org governance based upon Orgish law, would such be considered a valid religion or a threat to society, national security and world peace?

Meanwhile, people ignore the fact Islam teaches these very things. Islam teaches that every non-Muslim nation must be overthrown and made into a Muslim nation under Sharia law.

One Egyptian who was a former Muslim, now a follower of Christ by the grace of God, has pointed out just how militant Islam is and has declared Islam should be outlawed as a subversive threat to the nation.

Islam is not some peaceful religion seeking to help people find God. Islam is a militant political-religious entity determined to make the entire world Muslim using how ever much force and murder necessary, and is a far greater threat than ever was Nazism or Communism.

[HappyChristian]

It's coming....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0vItJqpQ8U

[John81]

The likes of this is happening across the land wherever Muslims become a large enough percentage they feel they can push.

Schools and businesses have been pressured to provide prayer rooms and give prayer time to Muslims and provide special accomodations for their Ramadan.

In some cities with high numbers of Muslims there is pressure being asserted to allow Muslims to live and be subject to a separate, local court system based upon Sharia law.

[trc123]

There is real revolt coming and most will never see it until it blindsides them.

[John81]

There is real revolt coming and most will never see it until it blindsides them.

Such is usually the case. Even when things seem to point to such, most people at the time think it won't happen yet. Typically when it does, it turns out to be much more widespread and worse than anyone anticipated.

[MaxKennedy]

And I've read and studied the writings of the founders. The thing is they were pretty smart and had a way with words. They knew how things were across the pond and if they had wanted to say Christianity they would have. If they had wanted to make this country a haven for Christians of different denominations they would have said that. But they didn't. They chose to advocate for religious freedom because they realized how terrible it is to be persecuted for a religious belief no matter what that belief is. This isn't a theocracy. Original intent won't hold water here.

All the writers of the Declaration of Independence where Christians, 6-7 at least were professional preachers, a lot more where raised and taught by family members who were preachers,and the secretary of that congress who took all the notes and is also on the Declaration later used his writing skills to put out one of the most preminent OT NT bibles of that time (1800).

Also, most of the Constitutions of the Independent States made during 1776 onwards required you to be a Christian, including the one in Philedelphia which was signed by Benjamin Franklin as president, so you are completely wrong. You couldn't even hold office unless you were a Christian.

You're confusing "non-denominational", which the founders were, with "non Christian". I don't doubt by reading the approved and edited reading of history, you would come to that conclusion - but our greatest enemey right now is Marxists. I've actually read a lot of the original documents at that time, and did not use ones that modern historians put in front of me.

You couldn't hold office in most if not all the states if you were not Christian. The revolution wasn't a marxist one. In the words of Samuel Adams, their forebears overthrew the popery of religion, and can you now overthrow the popery of politics (divine rights of Kings). Edited September 3, 2010 by MaxKennedy

[MaxKennedy]

Many court cases have further defined eminent domain, we could prOBably argue what was originally intended forever. What it was most certainly never intended to do was "keep the peace." Public benefit is the overarching principle. Let me assure you, if eminent domain is used in an attempt to put an end to this issue people will will not be happy for all kinds of reasons. Muslims, Constitutional scholars, Americans who know their country is better than that, New Yorkers, you name it they will be outraged. And rightfully so.

You're too argumentive about wordly issues, I think. I know God will bring peace to the issue, but not from unbelievers. One nation under God is the song I'm singing. God bless America - and fyi Jesus rules on His Father's throne right now. I'm not letting these messages interfere with my prayers, or think that other than "You and God are a majority" is true.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Matthew 6:33 Edited September 3, 2010 by MaxKennedy

[CPR]

All the writers of the Declaration of Independence where Christians, 6-7 at least were professional preachers, a lot more where raised and taught by family members who were preachers,and the secretary of that congress who took all the notes and is also on the Declaration later used his writing skills to put out one of the most preminent OT NT bibles of that time (1800).

Also, most of the Constitutions of the Independent States made during 1776 onwards required you to be a Christian, including the one in Philedelphia which was signed by Benjamin Franklin as president, so you are completely wrong. You couldn't even hold office unless you were a Christian.

You're confusing "non-denominational", which the founders were, with "non Christian". I don't doubt by reading the approved and edited reading of history, you would come to that conclusion - but our greatest enemey right now is Marxists. I've actually read a lot of the original documents at that time, and did not use ones that modern historians put in front of me.

You couldn't hold office in most if not all the states if you were not Christian. The revolution wasn't a marxist one. In the words of Samuel Adams, their forebears overthrew the popery of religion, and can you now overthrow the popery of politics (divine rights of Kings).

I'm not completely wrong at all.

Some state Constitutions required office holders to profess a belief in God or a higher power (usually by swearing an oath of "so help me God"), but many of those didn't even require Christianity, they required a belief in God. Even so, the Constitution has a no religious test clause that states that there is no religious requirement for federal office.

Congrats on reading some original documents. Most people over high school age have. I spent a good part of college studying primary political documents, so I am am a little more well versed than a chapter in a random history book.

Oh, and many of the founders, most notably Benjamin Franklin, were Deists.

[MaxKennedy]

I'm not completely wrong at all.

Some state Constitutions required office holders to profess a belief in God or a higher power (usually by swearing an oath of "so help me God"), but many of those didn't even require Christianity, they required a belief in God. Even so, the Constitution has a no religious test clause that states that there is no religious requirement for federal office.

Congrats on reading some original documents. Most people over high school age have. I spent a good part of college studying primary political documents, so I am am a little more well versed than a chapter in a random history book.

Oh, and many of the founders, most notably Benjamin Franklin, were Deists.

Ok, since this is a Ron Paul thread, I'm guessing you are not a Christian, but a Ron Paulist. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. I'll post on it at some later time - at my leisure, and mostly for the actual Christians here who are my true brothers, but I have no time for the games of the world - I can repeat things too.

a) Benjamin Frankling wasn't a deist. He actually denounced it in autOBiography, because before he was saved in his youth, he was at one time. However, he was a regular church goer, gave advice to his daughter on attending church, has a number of faith based quotes made in his old age at the constitutional convention, and could not have held office under his *own* constitution, which required you to be a Christian and believe in the divine inspiration of the old and new testaments.

The constitutions of the states required a lot more than that. They required the old and new testament. They didn't require religious tests for certain denominations, that is true, but it is certainly untrue to claim they were deists, atheists, or any of the other bunk being pushed down American's throats. God forbid its forced on us much longer! Amen.

c) I am considerably above the high school level. Attacks on believers as being "stupid" are trite, especially here.

Friend, considering C, I'm asking you - which God are you really following? It seems to be the God of numbers and of this World. Does it really offend you so much that Godly men founded this country, and not ones like youself?

Let me quote Benjamin Franklin just once to consider something:

"In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection.- Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have OBserved frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor.

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it prOBable that an empire can rise without his aid?

To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it prOBable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move-that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service-"

The men of the founding of this country knew that *they* didn't win the war, God did.

The bitternest I am seeing in your writing suggests to me that you don't know it. You don't seem confident that God answers prayers, and
that God rules, and are politically bitter. I am aware of how compelling the devil is in this area, but would not life be easier
for you to believe God and be at peace with yourself?

First and foremost in this country, the way many people in this country today are not like are founders is they do not get on their knees and pray to God. God is our hope and salvation.
If you will humble yourself in prayer, God will have mercy and answer you. Edited September 3, 2010 by MaxKennedy

[John81]

I'm not completely wrong at all.

Some state Constitutions required office holders to profess a belief in God or a higher power (usually by swearing an oath of "so help me God"), but many of those didn't even require Christianity, they required a belief in God. Even so, the Constitution has a no religious test clause that states that there is no religious requirement for federal office.

Congrats on reading some original documents. Most people over high school age have. I spent a good part of college studying primary political documents, so I am am a little more well versed than a chapter in a random history book.

Oh, and many of the founders, most notably Benjamin Franklin, were Deists.

You should read the originals from the various States. They didn't require a belief in some generic god or "higher power", they outright required a professed faith in Jesus Christ.

[HappyChristian]

First, there were only 5 writers of the Declaration - Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, R. Livingston and R. Sherman.

Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian. Unless a Christian can ignore the resurrection of Christ? In the Bible Jefferson "wrote," he ended with the stone being rolled over the tomb.

John Adams was a Unitarian. The Adams' were moral people, but last I checked, Christians believe in a triune God (Unitarians don't accept Christ as the Son of God in the way the Bible teaches...)

I've never heard that Franklin was saved as a youngster. If he was, he was quite the backslidden womanizer...having more than one child out of wedlock, and affairs on both sides of the pond.

The drafters of the Constitution were a mixed bag of beliefs. There were many who were actually Christians (Geo. Wn. among them). Although they weren't all Christians, the atmosphere in this country at the time was one in which even the lost recognized the hand of God and His power.

The Constitution was not designed as a religious document. It was designed as a document to restrain federal government intrusion into state and personal matters. However, it was noted by many that some rights, being not enumerated, could be abused if the federal govt grew (like it has...and is ignoring those enumerated rights...). That was the reason for the Bill of Rights. #1 was pushed by the Baptists - not to ensure that the Baptist belief was the only one, but to ensure that the atmosphere of religious liberty remained.

The founders by and large believed that muslims were covered by that same religious liberty. And they are. My real disagreement with Ron Paul on this issue is the fact that, this being a political religion, there should be examination of the funding. The imam has been open about the fact that monies will be received from countries that harbor terrorists. As such, the federal government has a responsibility to the American people to investigate and stop the building of this mosque if there is terrorist money involved.

The mosque should also be moved to a different location. If this imam is truly interested in promoting goodwill, that is what he would do...

Let's stop, however, questioning a person's salvation because they think differently from us, okay? Unless they deny that Christ is the Son of God, crucified for our sins and resurrected in body (oh, kinda like Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, etc...) there is no ground for questioning their salvation. Got it? Thanks.

(FWIW - Ron Paul is a Christian. He's actually a Baptist, too. He's also a completey strict Constitutionalist)

[JerryNumbers]

Why is it that so many people think they should have the freedom to do that which they want to?

There is no such thing in a country that has laws that its people will have the freedom to do as they please, many times the word no has to be said when one wants to do something in order to protect its citizens.

And this country cannot afford to give the Muslims a free reign, for they are not a religion of peace loving people, but a religion of forcing their religion on all & or murdering them.

[MaxKennedy]

First, there were only 5 writers of the Declaration - Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, R. Livingston and R. Sherman.

Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian. Unless a Christian can ignore the resurrection of Christ? In the Bible Jefferson "wrote," he ended with the stone being rolled over the tomb.

John Adams was a Unitarian. The Adams' were moral people, but last I checked, Christians believe in a triune God (Unitarians don't accept Christ as the Son of God in the way the Bible teaches...)

I've never heard that Franklin was saved as a youngster. If he was, he was quite the backslidden womanizer...having more than one child out of wedlock, and affairs on both sides of the pond.

(FWIW - Ron Paul is a Christian. He's actually a Baptist, too. He's also a completey strict Constitutionalist)

Ok, it is not for you to say if someone is saved or a good Christian or not. If they say they are Christians, and attend a church, then they are for the Lord to judge, not you. What you are really saying is not they weren't Christians, but they were apostates and heretics. I would say the country is founded on Christian principles by men that knowlingly followed the bible as documented in actual history *1

All of these men were Christians. And I didn't say just the drafters. All the signers, every one, was a Christian, including the secretary, and a good perchantage were preachers as well.

Jefferson was a Christian, attended church all his life, and was responsible for some of the church services on the capital. He quoted part of the bible in some of the laws that he drafted in 1776. I specifically mentioned him because he has an atheist nephew that raped one of the slaves, squandered the family wealth, and released post humerously letters from Jefferson for money, some of which now are known to have been edited heavily.

Roger Williams, who you didn't mention at all, wrote religious charters and letters all the time, was well known for Christian writing, and was a deacon at his church.

Ron Paul? I have far less of a reason to believe Ron Paul is a Christian then anyone you mention. His followers frequently attack the founders of this country as not being Christian, his press secretary was a new age witch (and I saved her posts), and another one on his campaign was apparently a homosexual. He also came out in favor of homosexuality in a video last year that WND linked.

Ron Paul is a Christian? Judge not least you be judged. All his followers say that the founders weren't Christian. I'd rather believe the founders. And God.

*1 I do believe in one God, the Creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.

Pennsylvania Constitution, 1776, Signed by Benjamin Franklin, president. You can't have a lawful assembly without the Bible as the sole rule of faith and government. Edited September 3, 2010 by MaxKennedy

[MaxKennedy]

FYI - Thomas Jefferson's "bible" was originally intended as a bible aid *for himself* and I have read his own introduction saying as much. But it is interesting that the NIV does the same thing in Mark. The NIV deletes the gospel out of Mark, and it isn't intended as just a list of Jesus's sermons, but an actual bible for distribution.

You can repeat it as much as you want (but I will keep repeating too), but this is the number one reason I will not fellowship with the Ron Paul crowd. They distort American history as much as marxists, seeking to elimate all Christianity in it. Which is impossible, because God founded the country.

They were all heavily Christians, and the more I looked at the liar - who is Satan, and not the people who he may be blinding, the more I discovered how big the lie was. One of the men that served on our supreme court, for instance, was being slandered as a deist, and he wrote a legal history tracing our law right back to the Holy Bible. When you lie, lie big apparently. I have a copy of that book, you can get it off google books, and will post sometime.

Edited September 3, 2010 by MaxKennedy

[MaxKennedy]

You should read the originals from the various States. They didn't require a belief in some generic god or "higher power", they outright required a professed faith in Jesus Christ.

I know. In fact, it is important to find brothers to talk about such with sometime, and not have unbelievers around, because there is *so much* that the founders believed and wrote, that you never talk about anything deep when you have scorners and mockers around.

I won't hang out with Ron Paul people because they relentlessly attack our Christian roots. Some of it is purposful, I suppose, with the occult or homosexual people being involved in their campaign. It reminds me a little bit of lying, like you have to believe marxists or us, but whichever you believe, you can't believe Jesus Christ, the one that rules.