"MOMMY - Why is Cinderella Showing Her Chest?"

[Brother Rick]

Complete Article by my wife.


(My four year old daughter asked me, with no previous prompting and much to my discomfort, that question. Do you see a difference? It's so subtle I didn't even notice, but it wasn't subtle to the innocent unconditioned mind of a little child. Out of the mouths of babes.)

In the first few years of my marriage, I became aware of three marriages that were affected by pornography within my circle of friends. In two of the cases, the men refused to change their ways and the marriages ended and children were left without an intact home. In the third case, the man repented and through God’s grace, forgiveness, some boundaries and accountability the marriage was restored.

Around the same time as this, someone lent me the book, “Created to be His Helpmeet” by Debi Pearl and somehow we got the book “Every Man’s Battle.” Both dealt openly with the struggles of men with pornography. In the book “Every Man’s Battle” I read that there was a survey done among Christian men and 60% of the Christian men said that they had viewed pornography in the past six months. I was bombarded with the topic from all sides. I shook while sOBbing as I watched "Fireproof." I was overwhelmed, disgusted, discouraged and distrustful of all men, even my own husband.

I didn’t want to have anything to do with the internet, shopping catalogs, commercials, women joggers, cleavage baring women, the grocery store aisle, short skirts or skin tight clothing. I wanted to cry at the thought that my husband would even have to struggle to not look at other women. “WHY, Lord, WHY?”

My husband was super yielding to my paranoia. I talked to him a lot about the temptations of men, and he acknowledged that it was everywhere. He said that regarding the internet, it is a difficult thing for men because in Proverbs it speaks about avoiding a woman in the attire of a harlot. He mentioned these verses specifically:

Proverbs 7:6 – 8, “For at the window of my house I looked through my casement, And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,

He said that it is increasingly difficult for men to stay pure because they no longer have to “pass through the street near her corner.” Her corner is right in the house.

AN UNSAVED MAN

I battled this distrust of men and asked my boss at the time, who was an unsaved man, some questions regarding his view on the subject. He casually commented that it was just something all men did. It didn’t have to be an addiction; it was sometimes just casual entertainment. This didn’t help my paranoia at all...

Complete Article Edited August 24, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[trc123]

Complete Article by my wife.


(My four year old daughter asked me, with no previous prompting and much to my discomfort, that question. Do you see a difference? It's so subtle I didn't even notice, but it wasn't subtle to the innocent unconditioned mind of a little child. Out of the mouths of babes.)

In the first few years of my marriage, I became aware of three marriages that were affected by pornography within my circle of friends. In two of the cases, the men refused to change their ways and the marriages ended and children were left without an intact home. In the third case, the man repented and through God’s grace, forgiveness, some boundaries and accountability the marriage was restored.

Around the same time as this, someone lent me the book, “Created to be His Helpmeet” by Debi Pearl and somehow we got the book “Every Man’s Battle.” Both dealt openly with the struggles of men with pornography. In the book “Every Man’s Battle” I read that there was a survey done among Christian men and 60% of the Christian men said that they had viewed pornography in the past six months. I was bombarded with the topic from all sides. I shook while sOBbing as I watched "Fireproof." I was overwhelmed, disgusted, discouraged and distrustful of all men, even my own husband.

I didn’t want to have anything to do with the internet, shopping catalogs, commercials, women joggers, cleavage baring women, the grocery store aisle, short skirts or skin tight clothing. I wanted to cry at the thought that my husband would even have to struggle to not look at other women. “WHY, Lord, WHY?”

My husband was super yielding to my paranoia. I talked to him a lot about the temptations of men, and he acknowledged that it was everywhere. He said that regarding the internet, it is a difficult thing for men because in Proverbs it speaks about avoiding a woman in the attire of a harlot. He mentioned these verses specifically:

Proverbs 7:6 – 8, “For at the window of my house I looked through my casement, And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,

He said that it is increasingly difficult for men to stay pure because they no longer have to “pass through the street near her corner.” Her corner is right in the house.

AN UNSAVED MAN

I battled this distrust of men and asked my boss at the time, who was an unsaved man, some questions regarding his view on the subject. He casually commented that it was just something all men did. It didn’t have to be an addiction; it was sometimes just casual entertainment. This didn’t help my paranoia at all...

Complete Article

Good article, a lot of truth there........

[JerryNumbers]

The thing is, whether man or woman, we ALL struggle with sin, and each one of us has a sin that is besetting to us.

The view of the unsaved man sounds about what I would expect. And their is no doubt, the internet has put one besetting sin right close to the people that has the hardest time resisting it.

I recall hearing a pastor on the radio speaking on the issue of porn and men who traveled and had to use motels. He stated, if you can't stay away from the porn on cable TV offered in motels, do not stay at a motel that offers it. Perhaps the man whose besetting sin is porn, he should not have internet access in his home, neither cable or satellite TV. One surely does not need to over temp their self.

I hear someone say put a filter on it, when the temptations is highest one can turn the filter off.

And I hear of those accountable programs, where 2 men will set things up so that a record of what they view is sent to the other one, and they hold each one accountable. But even at that, I figure one who has the urge can figure a way around that.

I might add, porn is a prOBlem men has been dealing with forever, there is no easy answers, and the best answer I have is love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, with all your might, them try and keep the temptation away from you.

[Anon]

Good stuff...it is hard for women to know that their man is sooo tempted these days! I am like your wife...I have friends who have either lost their family due to porn, or at least struggle with things due to porn. It seems like its everywhere...and it especially seems to be hitting Christians, and pastors, these days.

With a family full of boys its especially important for us to keep our boys looking AWAY from temptation, even though its everywhere.

Both of the books mentioned are excellent! I don't even like Debi Pearl at ALL but I do like the helpmeet book. It is frank and straightforward...though I don't agree with all of it, I think its valuable. The "Every Man" series is good too...I think "Every Man's Marriage" is better than "Every Man's Battle"...my only complaint with that is that it has some pretty detailed descriptions in there so if the man does NOT currently have a huge prOBlem with lust the mental images may actually make things worse...so the "marriage" one would be best for those not currently fighting a battle, actively, with porn. The marriage book does include some info on porn though. Just not as extensively as the Battle one.

My hub is good about looking away...its terrible that its everywhere...sometimes even in our churches!!!! And there is no shame in our country anymore. Today I was shopping and sorry but there was an older lady and she was not attractive and she was letting it "all hang out" for whatever reason I'll never know.... but its like...everyone does it.

Your wife was tactful enough not to say it in the article but the Helpmeet book also does a good jOB teaching wives how to be there for their husbands to at least try to help reduce temptation out in the world.

[Webers_Home]

.
Personally, I don't think men should have to apologize for gazing at women any more than women should have to apologize for swooning at the voices of South Pacific's Paulo Szot, or Andrea Bocelli.

I was once in a bull session with a couple of guys at work and commented about how alluring one of the girls in the office was. They teased me by threatening to tell my wife. I just laughed and said, fellas you know who my competition is? Tom Selleck, Richard Gere, and Sean Connery.

Am I upset with my wife's admiration of those three guys? Absolutely not! I'm proud of her for picking three guys that I myself consider real men. Had she been infatuated with somebody like Pee Wee Herman I would have been very disappointed.

My wife is a mature woman who knows the score. She's a live and let live kind of girl. She's fully aware that men will be men, and women will be women, and to expect either gender to be anything less is wishful thinking. I myself learned early on in my Christian experience to accept reality and to stop fighting against nature: which can easily result in a nervous breakdown.

Wives and girlfriends who get upset with their men for looking at girls do so because they're insecure. No, don't even think about arguing with me over this because I've seen it too many times in my 66 years to be wrong about it. Even the most beautiful girl in the world feels like the ugly one when her man looks at another woman. They can't help it. It's in their nature to feel a certain amount of rivalry with other women.

Mirror, mirror on the wall; who's the fairest of them all?

We usually associate that line with the vain queen in Snow White, but that inquiry is paramount in every woman's mind, both the good and the bad; whether princess or char girl. Women are so vain that they are adept at discovering and marking out smooth surfaces for looking at their own reflection. They even plan their shopping around reflective surfaces. I know a lady who uses the chrome trim on the side of her refrigerator for one last check of her makeup before going out the door to work. Kelly Ripa admitted to using the spoons and knives in restaurants. Women are vanity blood hounds. If there is a reflective surface anywhere along their beaten path, they'll find it; and they won't forget it.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

Edited August 24, 2010 by Webers_Home

[irishman]

.
Personally, I don't think men should have to apologize for gazing at women any more than women should have to apologize for swooning at the voices of South Pacific's Paulo Szot, or Andrea Bocelli.

I was once in a bull session with a couple of guys at work and commented about how alluring one of the girls in the office was. They teased me by threatening to tell my wife. I just laughed and said, fellas you know who my competition is? Tom Selleck, Richard Gere, and Sean Connery.

Am I upset with my wife's admiration of those three guys? Absolutely not! I'm proud of her for picking three guys that I myself consider real men. Had she been infatuated with somebody like Pee Wee Herman I would have been very disappointed.

My wife is a mature woman who knows the score. She's a live and let live kind of girl. She's fully aware that men will be men, and women will be women, and to expect either gender to be anything less is wishful thinking. I myself learned early on in my Christian experience to accept reality and to stop fighting against nature: which can easily result in a nervous breakdown.

Wives and girlfriends who get upset with their men for looking at girls do so because they're insecure. No, don't even think about arguing with me over this because I've seen it too many times in my 66 years to be wrong about it. Even the most beautiful girl in the world feels like the ugly one when her man looks at another woman. They can't help it. It's in their nature to feel a certain amount of rivalry with other women.

Mirror, mirror on the wall; who's the fairest of them all?

We usually associate that line with the vain queen in Snow White, but that inquiry is paramount in every woman's mind, both the good and the bad; whether princess or char girl. Women are so vain that they are adept at discovering and marking out smooth surfaces for looking at their own reflection. They even plan their shopping around reflective surfaces. I know a lady who uses the chrome trim on the side of her refrigerator for one last check of her makeup before going out the door to work. Kelly Ripa admitted to using the spoons and knives in restaurants. Women are vanity blood hounds. If there is a reflective surface anywhere along their beaten path, they'll find it; and they won't forget it.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

Weber--you're full of surprises! You can blame God for infidelity because he made you that way, is that it? He made us that way because we would be too lazy to fulfill the command to "replenish the earth" if he didn't make it easy for us. That's as delicate as I can put it, and I hope everyone keeps it on a "delicate" level throughout the rest of the post. Anyway, restraint is our duty to godliness; God did not put the temptations in front of us all the time, but allows us to chase after our whimsical dreams and fall into the clutches of Satan. Your attitude justifies rather than condemned it, and, though the matter is unquestionable with you, I wonder what the Lord thinks of it? Or perhaps He is not invited into our discussion?

[John81]

.
Personally, I don't think men should have to apologize for gazing at women any more than women should have to apologize for swooning at the voices of South Pacific's Paulo Szot, or Andrea Bocelli.

I was once in a bull session with a couple of guys at work and commented about how alluring one of the girls in the office was. They teased me by threatening to tell my wife. I just laughed and said, fellas you know who my competition is? Tom Selleck, Richard Gere, and Sean Connery.

Am I upset with my wife's admiration of those three guys? Absolutely not! I'm proud of her for picking three guys that I myself consider real men. Had she been infatuated with somebody like Pee Wee Herman I would have been very disappointed.

My wife is a mature woman who knows the score. She's a live and let live kind of girl. She's fully aware that men will be men, and women will be women, and to expect either gender to be anything less is wishful thinking. I myself learned early on in my Christian experience to accept reality and to stop fighting against nature: which can easily result in a nervous breakdown.

Wives and girlfriends who get upset with their men for looking at girls do so because they're insecure. No, don't even think about arguing with me over this because I've seen it too many times in my 66 years to be wrong about it. Even the most beautiful girl in the world feels like the ugly one when her man looks at another woman. They can't help it. It's in their nature to feel a certain amount of rivalry with other women.

Mirror, mirror on the wall; who's the fairest of them all?

We usually associate that line with the vain queen in Snow White, but that inquiry is paramount in every woman's mind, both the good and the bad; whether princess or char girl. Women are so vain that they are adept at discovering and marking out smooth surfaces for looking at their own reflection. They even plan their shopping around reflective surfaces. I know a lady who uses the chrome trim on the side of her refrigerator for one last check of her makeup before going out the door to work. Kelly Ripa admitted to using the spoons and knives in restaurants. Women are vanity blood hounds. If there is a reflective surface anywhere along their beaten path, they'll find it; and they won't forget it.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

That's a wordly philosophy, not what Scripture commands.

As for "real men", you should note that Richard Gere is a homosexual. Hardly a "real man".

Scripture is clear with regards to modesty, keeping our eyes from lust or even from the temptation to lust, to protect our hearts and minds from the same.

What you put forth reflects the position of the lost world, not what Scripture teaches and commands, as put forth so well by Rick's wife.

[Anon]

I don't believe women have to lust after tv men or anyone else...I know I sure don't. And its certainly not an excuse for men to look.

And there is NO excuse for a married man to be talking about a hot chick in the office.

[Pastor Matt]

And there is NO excuse for a married man to be talking about a hot chick in the office.

If it is spicy KFC that is being planned for lunch, I can talk about that hot chick for a long time.

[Annie]

Time out for a second...Maybe some terms should be defined before going further. Weber hasn't said anything about "lusting," right? Sure, the term "gazing" makes one wonder, but I think he should be allowed to clarify what he means before we tar and feather him. (And if he does mean "lusting," I'll be first in line with the tar and feathers. )

A man who looks at a woman because she is beautiful is not sinning. God has created all of us to appreciate beauty. But the Bible is clear that "lusting after a woman," or "strongly desiring" that woman in a fleshly way that fulfills base appetites, is sinful. Now, where is the line between "enjoying and appreciating beauty" and "lusting?" I'm not a man, so I don't know...I only know what my husband has told me, and even then it's hard to understand. (I really do feel sorry for guys, you know? It's gotta be terrible to try to deal with what they face in today's sexually saturated culture.) I don't think I'm an insecure wife; I'm perfectly willing to describe other girls (to my husband) as "good-looking"...As in, "Remember the two girls we talked to last week at the soccer game? I found out that the good-looking one's name is Jennifer." In fact, I'd get suspicious if my husband denied that he thought an OBviously beautiful woman is good-looking. The truth is that physical beauty exists in others besides my spouse...and not acknowledging that fact is simply dishonest. What is needed is a proper view of that physical attractiveness, and the discernment to know how to appreciate that beauty without "lusting after" it.

[Webers_Home]

.
Ascetic religions have created thousands of warped psyches and totally unnecessary guilt complexes by their unbiblical attitudes toward the male libido; and at the heart of it is the passage below.

†. Mtt 5:27-28 . .Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The koiné Greek word for "lust" is epithumeo (ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o) which means: to set the heart upon.

Jesus' comment about adultery in Mtt 5:27-29 wasn't a new and improved version of adultery, but was already in place written into one of Moses' covenanted laws that forbids coveting anything, and everything, that belongs to your fellow man.

†. Ex 20:17 . .Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his a_s, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Coveting, per se, isn't a sin. Paul encouraged the Corinthian Christians to "covet earnestly" the best spiritual gifts (1Cor 12:31) and to covet prophesy (1Cor 14:39). To "covet earnestly" means you go after something with the full intention of possessing it.

Neither Ex 20:17 nor Mtt 5:27-28 condemn erotic fantasies nor a healthy male libido, no, those passages condemn premeditated adultery— which eo ipso implies conspiracy to commit adultery —and adultery is a sin committed with married people; not with single people. Adultery involves at least one married person in the affair. Single people sleeping together aren't adulterers; they're just immoral.

Jesus' teaching isn't about the so-called evils of sexual desire, but about scheming to sleep with a married woman. For a man to even have a plan like that in his head is the same as having already implemented it. But as far as I know, it's okay for men to drool over married women all they want as long as they don't start scheming on one fully intending to actually have an affair with her and taste the goods.

Webster's defines "scheme" as: a plan or program of action. The act of scheming is the adultery, not the feelings and fantasies.

†. Rom 13:14 . . But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.

The emphasis there is not upon carnal lusts, but rather, upon making provision to fulfill those carnal lusts; which has the distinction of being the correct interpretation of Mtt 5:27-28.

So then, are Moses and/or Jesus, saying that I can't look across the street at my neighbor's Mercedes and drool over it, turning green with envy? Or that I can't gape at his buxom young wife, undressing her with my eyes, and having erotic fantasies about her? No, covetousness doesn't imply that at all. Covetousness implies my forming a plan in my head to take the neighbor's buxom young wife, and his Mercedes away from him.

In the movie The Bridges Of Madison County, there's a precise moment when a married Francesca Johnson makes a definite decision to initiate an affair with a single ROBert Kincaid. That's a good example of Mtt 5:27-29. Francesca was okay with ROBert up till the moment of her decision; but from that moment on, Mrs. Johnson was an adulteress before they even slept together.

Libido is essential to the survival of our species. God created Man to breed. Well, remove a human being's libido and they simply won't breed because then they would look upon the adult human body OBjectively; and I think we all instinctively know that if you were to remove the sensual element from an adult's naked human body, it would have little more breeding appeal than a hair brush or a catcher's mitt; possibly even less.

You know, it's ironic that traditionalists preach and preach about Adam's fall while glossing over the fact that his first impulse after eating the forbidden fruit was to cover his pelvic region. And why would he do that? Answer: because he became 1) self conscious about his appearance, and 2) he felt guilty about his feelings in connection with sex and the human body, that's why.

Every time a traditionalist gets up on a soap box and preaches about the evils of erotic fantasies and the sinfulness of sexual urges, desires, and feelings; all they're really doing is justifying their fig leaves and revealing their own Adam-given guilt complex in connection with sex and the human body. In the beginning, man felt neither shame nor guilt in connection with sex and the human body: now he's riddled with it. Man's guilt complex is so ingrained that he actually welcomes the traditional interpretation of Mtt 5:27-29 as a means of saying: "I knew it! Fascination with sex and the human body is wrong; just as I thought". Well of course that's what he thought because he got that thinking from a fallen Adam, rather than from an innocent Adam.

Most Christians are totally unaware that their subconscious guilt complex in connection with sex and the human body has a powerful influence upon the way they interpret not only Mtt 5:27-28, but also upon the way they interpret every other passage in the Bible related to sex, the human body, and one's physical appearance.

In point of fact, without their realizing it, they are actually shoe-horning their guilt complex into Christ's teachings, and it's blinding them to the words, grammar, and syntax of his comments, thus causing them to miss that he was actually introducing nothing new in the Sermon On The Mount, but merely reiterating the sixth and the tenth commandments in a way that the rabbis of his day didn't usually do.

BTW: I think it's very significant that Eve didn't make herself a fig-leaf blouse. You know, even today in primitive cultures, women are topless and nOBody thinks anything about it. A bare-bosomed Cinderella is perfectly normal in their world. So then what does that tell me? It tells me that civilized cultures are even more self-conscious, and even more guilt-ridden about sex and the human body than Adam and Eve were.

†. Rev 3:18 . .I counsel thee to buy of me . . . white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear

What's he saying? That nakedness is shameful? (chuckle) No, were it shameful, God would have created Adam and Eve fully clothed. No, what he's saying is, that if you can't stand before Christ exposed in full frontal nudity and feel perfectly at ease, then you are a sinful being because innocent beings feel no self consciousness in full frontal nudity.

†. Gen 2:25 . . And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

So then, what's represented by the white raiment? Some would say it's the righteousness of Christ; and I fully agree; but we need to flesh that out a bit. In practicality; the righteousness of Christ is innocence.

Does reading this post make you squirm? And what does that say about you? It says you are unable to be OBjective about sex and the human body; but rather, you are self conscious: you are fallen.

†. Gen 3:8-10 . . And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

Edited August 24, 2010 by Webers_Home

[John81]

I don't believe women have to lust after tv men or anyone else...I know I sure don't. And its certainly not an excuse for men to look.

And there is NO excuse for a married man to be talking about a hot chick in the office.

And it seems Webers_Home has made it clear he believes it's okay to fantasize about other mens wives, to undress them with his eyes and to have erotic fantasies about women not his wife so long as he doesn't really plan to actually commit adultery.

All, of course, are biblically incorrect.

Through Christ, men and women both can commit their hearts, eyes and minds to their spouse, forsaking all others as Scripture proclaims.

[Annie]

OK, I'm heating up the tar...

[trc123]

Okay Annie, let the dogs loose..................

[Brother Rick]

.
Ascetic religions have created thousands of warped psyches and totally unnecessary guilt complexes by their unbiblical attitudes toward the male libido; and at the heart of it is the passage below.

†. Mtt 5:27-28 . .Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The koiné Greek word for "lust" is epithumeo (ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o) which means: to set the heart upon.

Jesus' comment about adultery in Mtt 5:27-29 wasn't a new and improved version of adultery, but was already in place written into one of Moses' covenanted laws that forbids coveting anything, and everything, that belongs to your fellow man.

†. Ex 20:17 . .You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or burro, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

Coveting, per se, isn't a sin. Paul encouraged the Corinthian Christians to "covet earnestly" the best spiritual gifts (1Cor 12:31) and to covet prophesy (1Cor 14:39). To "covet earnestly" means you go after something with the full intention of possessing it.

Neither Ex 20:17 nor Mtt 5:27-28 condemn erotic fantasies nor a healthy male libido, no, those passages condemn premeditated adultery— which eo ipso implies conspiracy to commit adultery —and adultery is a sin committed with married people; not with single people.

First sign you have an idiot (I use that word charitably considering what he has done here) on your hands is when he starts trying to overthrow the clear teaching of the English Bible that God gave you by twisting it with a warped translation and interpretation from the original languages.