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Brotherly love


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Heb 13:1 "Let brotherly love continue."


For years I have self-debated as to whether I should accept certain brethren, even Baptists, that differ in belief than I. This morning, in my meditations, I have discovered what many have been trying to teach me for the same amount of years, that “They that are not against us are for us”. These “hyper-Calvinists”, and “Baptist briders”, and etc., if they “do all to the glory of God” then perhaps I need to accept them, as He does! I have been taught ecclesiastical separation, even among my own ranks, and yet…maybe I have become a Pharisee! I am torn between two ways.
One need not become them, or change because of them, but I suppose one must fellowship with them as true children of God, but where then do we draw the lines? If lines are drawn, separation to some extent, is inevitable. Differences make us unique, but all that call upon the Lord are saved, and become a member of His family. Where does God draw the lines? He uses people that we would not even associate with, and others are brought to Christ through them, or made more perfect in their walk for Him. God forgive me for my hard headedness, and the hard heartedness that follows it. How are we to preserve the heritage of Baptists though, if we have no boundaries? Each is to carry the torch for himself alone, and bear the others burdens along with his own.
I know a smoking Christian, but he loves the Lord perhaps as much as I do; He seems to serve in better capacity and yet I do not think much of his Christianity. I wonder what God thinks of him? I am so glad that the Lord can use a dirty vessel, lest I fall by the wayside and end up in the junkyard of God; put on the shelf, and collecting dust is not my desire, nor is a trophy my goal. I do not wish to be only a trophy on his shelf, but even that will bring glory to His name.
I know another who has the sweetest spirit about him, but is caught up in the tongues movement, and believes it to be the “Baptism of the Holy Ghost”, but if he has called upon the Lord, as I have, have I the right to break fellowship with him? Yet, “Can two walk together except they be agreed?” Disharmony will hinder their walk, and perhaps their work together, but they do not have to break fellowship completely. The Lord accepted the Gentiles when the Jews thought He would not; He accepted the disciples of John when they were shunned by the “religious” crowd of the day, and He accepted me, in my wretchedness, and in my most putrid state. Glory be to His Name for this miracle.

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:amen::thumb:

I first really faced this head on while in university. Leaving aside the professing Christians who showed no signs of being saved, there were a variety of Christians. Some came from Baptist, Assembly of God, Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopal, Presby, etc. While there were certainly differences between us, we did all share Christ as Saviour.

For the most part, other than the occasional discussion, we set aside our differences and focused upon what we had in common in Christ. We could fellowship and be friends even if we didn't attend one anothers church, or even if we wouldn't attend anothers church because of certain differences.

This worked well for most of us. There was fellowship yet there was also a measure of separation.

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Jesus accepted "publicans and sinners". but he never accepted their sin. Zaccheus quit cheating taxpayers. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more".

We played bluegrasss at an Assembly of God last night. There was a very sweet spirit there and I believe some of those people know the Lord, but since that denomination's doctrine includes speaking in tongues and that salvation can be lost, they are doctrinally in error. We do slip in a few songs in which the lyrics allude to "eternal security", but we never confront anyone openly. Apparently the lyrics havn't bothered anyone because we have been asked back five times; they booked us again last night. I will play music for them on weekends, but I would never attend their services. And if an IFB preacher begins teaching false doctrine in my own church I would find another church.

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Yet, did the one in the tongue movement really call upon the Jesus as you did, are is he trusting being baptized into a church to save him?

What about the Mormons, they will claim to have called upon Jesus, yet if you question them about Jesus, the Jesus they called upon is not the Jesus of the Bible.

Those in the RCC will claim to have called upon Jesus, yet many of them are trusting the Roman Catholic Church to save them and or many other things and never thinking its by grace through faith.

What about the churches of Christ, they will claim they called upon Jesus, yet most of them trust being baptized into the churches of Christ.

The Pentecostals oneness, they will claim to have called on Jesus, yet they believe if your not baptized into the Pentecostals Church in the name of Jesus you are not saved. By the way, if you've been baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, that is not accepted by them.

So really, has Jesus really accepted everyone who claims to have called upon Jesus? The answer is no, we do have to call upon Jesus the proper way, its by grace, through faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift.

Sorry, you seem to be teaching acceptance that is so popular, unless I'm misunderstanding you. They be many who claim Jesus that do not hold to God's truths, therefore only having a form of godliness.

There is nothing Pharisee about it, its contending for the faith, holding to God's truth.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

2Th 3:14 And if any man OBey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed

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Praise be to God! Thank you very much for sharing this with us Irishman. I am truely inspired when a man who has been in Christ for such a long time is still able to learn from the Lord. There is no doubt that it is almost impossible to find two Christians who agree on every aspect of our faith. The important thing is that we are all striving for the same thing. For some, they only know what they have been exposed to or what others have taught them. Is it there fault that they may be mistaken about a few things? Should they be "separated" from because of these differences? Of course not. Let us not forget those Churches in the Bible whom Paul addresses, and at time chastizes, for their errors. He never once proclaimed them "not saved" or ordered that they be separated from. And I agree with you that it is 100% like a pharisee for us to think we are so much better because we perceive ourselves to be more in line with scripture, as if any of us can honestly stand before God and proclaim that we are blameless. After all, it is always the person screaming "I'M RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG" all the time that indeed is most often the one in error. People like that who "separate" from everyone else eventually find themselves alone in a corner consumed with their own vanity.

Again thank you. I will forever remember your example of humbleness and your willingness to learn as you continue on your journey home. All the glory be to God.

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Yet, did the one in the tongue movement really call upon the Jesus as you did, are is he trusting being baptized into a church to save him?

What about the Mormons, they will claim to have called upon Jesus, yet if you question them about Jesus, the Jesus they called upon is not the Jesus of the Bible.

Those in the RCC will claim to have called upon Jesus, yet many of them are trusting the Roman Catholic Church to save them and or many other things and never thinking its by grace through faith.

What about the churches of Christ, they will claim they called upon Jesus, yet most of them trust being baptized into the churches of Christ.

The Pentecostals oneness, they will claim to have called on Jesus, yet they believe if your not baptized into the Pentecostals Church in the name of Jesus you are not saved. By the way, if you've been baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, that is not accepted by them.

So really, has Jesus really accepted everyone who claims to have called upon Jesus? The answer is no, we do have to call upon Jesus the proper way, its by grace, through faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift.

Sorry, you seem to be teaching acceptance that is so popular, unless I'm misunderstanding you. They be many who claim Jesus that do not hold to God's truths, therefore only having a form of godliness.

There is nothing Pharisee about it, its contending for the faith, holding to God's truth.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

2Th 3:14 And if any man OBey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed



I agree
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Please don't misunderstand me, i am not saying to drop all doctrine and get along at any cost, Not by any means. I still stand separated from many, I merely drew the lines too tightly, as many of us do. I was thinking of guys like Uncle Buddy ROBinson, he had hair down to his waist, but he led more people to the Lord than I have dreamed of doing. He was very zealous for the Lord, and it was OBvious that God's hand was upon him, but he would not have been allowed to preach at the pulpits of our churches today because of his long hair.

I think of Spurgeon. They say he smoked cigars well into his ministry (or a pipe, I have heard both), in today's fundamentalism he would not have been invited to preach because of a "bad testimony".

My cousin, a Dutch reformed missionary to Malaysia, suffered more, and served in a greater capacity than I have, and in my opinion, had low standards, yet I wonder if she was good enough for God to use her? I believe she was. He honors faithfulness. John Wesley, Billy Sunday, and many others had some crazy ideas, but God used them in a mighty way...so who am I to say that they are fakes and frauds?

All that said I have not changed my standards, simply my practices toward them, and my total neglect of them. Besides, I learned long ago that people are going to believe what they want to, no matter what scripture says about it. They have found a satisfactory (to themselves) way around it, and all the arguing in the world will not change them' but I don't have to succumb to their error in my own life either.

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Amen or as we say at my church, Ah-men :saint2:

It's important to remember that some things are of primary importance, such as the message of the Gospel, while other things are of secondary importance at best.


Is there a set standard as to what is primary and what is secondary? If yes, could you post a link or list them please? If not, who decides?
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Is there a set standard as to what is primary and what is secondary? If yes, could you post a link or list them please? If not, who decides?



John, One thing for sure.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:23-24 (KJV)

They that worship the Lord, 1st they must be saved, if they don't get that right, nothing they do will be an investment in heaven. And there be many churches out there that do not teach their members how to be saved, so their worship services are not received by our Lord.

Them there be our liberal brothers and sisters who will join together with those people, supporting them, encouraging them to keep teaching and holding to those false hope. Billy Graham has been one of the modern day leaders of this group.
About primary and or secondary, the verses declare, they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
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Please don't misunderstand me, i am not saying to drop all doctrine and get along at any cost, Not by any means. I still stand separated from many, I merely drew the lines too tightly, as many of us do. I was thinking of guys like Uncle Buddy ROBinson, he had hair down to his waist, but he led more people to the Lord than I have dreamed of doing. He was very zealous for the Lord, and it was OBvious that God's hand was upon him, but he would not have been allowed to preach at the pulpits of our churches today because of his long hair.

I think of Spurgeon. They say he smoked cigars well into his ministry (or a pipe, I have heard both), in today's fundamentalism he would not have been invited to preach because of a "bad testimony".

My cousin, a Dutch reformed missionary to Malaysia, suffered more, and served in a greater capacity than I have, and in my opinion, had low standards, yet I wonder if she was good enough for God to use her? I believe she was. He honors faithfulness. John Wesley, Billy Sunday, and many others had some crazy ideas, but God used them in a mighty way...so who am I to say that they are fakes and frauds?

All that said I have not changed my standards, simply my practices toward them, and my total neglect of them. Besides, I learned long ago that people are going to believe what they want to, no matter what scripture says about it. They have found a satisfactory (to themselves) way around it, and all the arguing in the world will not change them' but I don't have to succumb to their error in my own life either.



Some surely took your post completely wrong, including myself, even ptwild is giving it praises. It reminds me of what the youth pastor of the local SBC church said to me, they will worship with anyone that will worship with them, no matter what they teach, even inviting their pastor behind their pulpit, whether they be man or woman.

I feel sure that Judas suffered some as he followed Jesus, yet his suffering for Jesus' sake did him not the least bit of good.

Mt 10:1 ¶ And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Mt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mt 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mt 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mt 10:5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

I might add, Judas was among those Jesus sent forth, giving them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Surely on this trip Judas did many wonderful deeds, yet look at what he actually was.

In that day:

Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

many will have done many wonderful things in the name of Jesus, ues, even suffered for Him, yet..............................Jesus will profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
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Is there a set standard as to what is primary and what is secondary? If yes, could you post a link or list them please? If not, who decides?



No, I don't have a link. Who decides? Well I suppose everyone decides for himself or herself. However, I think Jesus made it quite clear in laying out the criteria for salvation. If something doesn't fall into that then it would seem to be a matter of secondary importance. At least if Jesus didn't find in important enough to affect your eternal soul. Granted all Christians should seek to follow and OBey Jesus to the best of their ability, but I think that matters like smoking, drinking, dress, style of worship, etc are of secondary importance at best.

For example, I do not think it is wrong to have an occasional drink, but I do not smoke. However, I see no reason to break fellowship with someone who disagrees with me on one or both of those subjects since neither affect salvation.
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John, One thing for sure.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:23-24 (KJV)

They that worship the Lord, 1st they must be saved, if they don't get that right, nothing they do will be an investment in heaven. And there be many churches out there that do not teach their members how to be saved, so their worship services are not received by our Lord.

Them there be our liberal brothers and sisters who will join together with those people, supporting them, encouraging them to keep teaching and holding to those false hope. Billy Graham has been one of the modern day leaders of this group.
About primary and or secondary, the verses declare, they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.




Some surely took your post completely wrong, including myself, even ptwild is giving it praises. It reminds me of what the youth pastor of the local SBC church said to me, they will worship with anyone that will worship with them, no matter what they teach, even inviting their pastor behind their pulpit, whether they be man or woman.

I feel sure that Judas suffered some as he followed Jesus, yet his suffering for Jesus' sake did him not the least bit of good.

Mt 10:1 ¶ And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Mt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mt 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mt 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mt 10:5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

I might add, Judas was among those Jesus sent forth, giving them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Surely on this trip Judas did many wonderful deeds, yet look at what he actually was.

In that day:

Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

many will have done many wonderful things in the name of Jesus, ues, even suffered for Him, yet..............................Jesus will profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


Just because we disagree on secondary matters doesn't mean we do not worship the Lord in spirit and in truth. I think that is what Irishman is trying to say.

So just because ptwild agrees people must be taking Irishman's statement wrong?
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No, I don't have a link. Who decides? Well I suppose everyone decides for himself or herself. However, I think Jesus made it quite clear in laying out the criteria for salvation. If something doesn't fall into that then it would seem to be a matter of secondary importance. At least if Jesus didn't find in important enough to affect your eternal soul. Granted all Christians should seek to follow and OBey Jesus to the best of their ability, but I think that matters like smoking, drinking, dress, style of worship, etc are of secondary importance at best.

For example, I do not think it is wrong to have an occasional drink, but I do not smoke. However, I see no reason to break fellowship with someone who disagrees with me on one or both of those subjects since neither affect salvation.



Seems your OK with people doing anything that will not send a person to hell, yet, for the saved person, nothing will send them to hell so that means they can do anything and everything, but why would they want to if the love Jesus?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
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