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JerryNumbers

Prop 8 ruling: nothing 'wrong' with being gay

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Why would a person who was in Christ make these statements that are totally contrary to Scripture?




Amazing isn't it.


Well unless you have gone and asked this writer if she is saved by grace through faith in Jesus then I can't imagine how you can make a judgement on her salvation. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you are saved by grace through faith and believing that homosexuality is wrong. If you believe that then you are adding to the gospel.

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The "meaning" of the word gay sure seems to have changed over the years.

Maybe we should refer to them as sodomites??!!


Absolutely! Christians make a serious mistake when we use the terminology "they" want us to use. Such changes in terms is designed to make the sin sound more acceptable. Christians would be wise to call them Sodomites or homosexuals as these are accurate. "Gay" was once a beautiful word but has now been corrupted to represent a sin God calls an abomination.

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Well unless you have gone and asked this writer if she is saved by grace through faith in Jesus then I can't imagine how you can make a judgement on her salvation. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you are saved by grace through faith and believing that homosexuality is wrong. If you believe that then you are adding to the gospel.


The Bible does say we are to judge ourselves and others as to whether or not they are Christians by their fruit. Someone saying there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, a sin God calls an abomination, is bearing bad fruit and they and others should examine their salvation to see if it's sure or not.

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The Bible does say we are to judge ourselves and others as to whether or not they are Christians by their fruit. Someone saying there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, a sin God calls an abomination, is bearing bad fruit and they and others should examine their salvation to see if it's sure or not.


No doubt that saying homosexuality is not a sin is wrong can be a form of "bad fruit" (however, and correct me if I'm mistaken, but are we supposed to know "false prophets" by their fruit - not necessarily whether or not someone has faith in Chrsit). But, even so, shouldn't we judge the person by all their fruits and not just the bad? And if we are unaware of all of their fruits, shouldn't we withhold judgment until all of their fruits are known? For no one has all "good fruit." Even though we may be Christians, we will still sin and therefore produce "bad fruit" at times. Therefore, judging a person based on only the limited information one has about that person, doesn't seem prudent. And even then, once you start weighing the good fruit against the bad, you find yourself judging their salvation based on what they have done or not done - in other words, based on their works or lack thereof. No amount of works or lack of works will ever warrant salvation. That's why I believe it is best to just "judge not that ye be not judged." For the Bible tells us that if we are going to judge people by weighing their bad fruit against their good fruit, or by only considering their bad fruit, that we to will be judged in the exact same way. Scary to think about.

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There are people who claim to be Christians who believe that homosexuality is fine. And they twist scripture to say so. But the plain fact of the matter is (and I don't think anyone will argue this - I'm just making a point) it is an abomination to God. And, thus we can know something clearly about the one who supports homosexuality. 1. They are not saved, or 2. They do not know the Bible.

We cannot definitively say that this author is not saved, unless we have spoken to her and she has told us one way or another (and, even then, she could be lying...). But one's actions most definitely do cast a light on one's spirituality or lack thereof.

When a person consistently supports things that are anti-Bible, it makes one pause to think that possibly they are not saved. If they were, surely the Holy Spirit would convict them.

I don't know if the woman is saved or not. I do know that she doesn't understand the nature of the sin she is supporting.

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Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Their fruit is, there is nothing wrong with homosexuality

Le 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Le 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:

Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Ro 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Ro 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Ro 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Ro 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Ro 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprOBate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Ro 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Ro 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disOBedient to parents,
Ro 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Ro 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them

That is they call the sin of homosexuality which God calls an abrogation, A OK, that its not a sin.

So by their fruit we know them, their fruit is rotten to the core when you compare it to the Holy Scriptures. Yet they could be saved, but backslidden. Yet more than likely they have never known Jesus.

In fact such people as this writer encourages others to partake of homosexuality, in other words encourages people to sin against God. This person is working hard for old Satan.

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<br />The &quot;meaning&quot; of the word gay sure seems to have changed over the years.<br /><br />Maybe we should refer to them as sodomites??!!<br />
<br /><br /><br />

They have ruined to word 'gay.' I was recently reading a book written in the early 1900's when the word gay had not been ruined. Every time I read the word 'gay,' I had to remember it was still a good word in those days.

I have no prOBlem with the word sodomites, not at all, but I generally use the world homosexual. No doubt, that day is growing near, sinners now flaunt their sins before everyone, no shame within them, its quickly getting as it was when God rained fire and brimstone down on Sodom & Gomorrah. It really males me nauseated to see pictures in the new of man kissing man, woman kissing woman. What is worse when they say its no sin against God, and or professing Christians defending them, and that is getting common place.

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The ruling wrt prop 8 was based on the law of the land, you cannot withhold a legal right from a group of people because some other group, majority of not, feels that it should be withheld.

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The ruling wrt prop 8 was based on the law of the land, you cannot withhold a legal right from a group of people because some other group, majority of not, feels that it should be withheld.

The people voted against it.

Furthermore, the Founding Fathers would not have stood for this. I believe it was George Washington who had his men run a homosexual Army officer out of the camp.

You are bringing damnation upon your country if you allow evil. Homosexuality is one of the most perverse sins imaginable.

"Marriage" between a man and a man or a woman and a woman is as much a "legal right" as having the "right" to murder someone. Which, I might add, is allowed today.
In Christ,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

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"Marriage" between a man and a man or a woman and a woman is as much a "legal right" as having the "right" to murder someone. Which, I might add, is allowed today.
In Christ,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.


Not exactly. Marriage in the legal/civil sense of the word brings with it certain protections under the law. Tax and legal status are the most notable. When you do not allow same-sex marriage that falls into discrimination on the basis of gender. Therefore, certain people are not allowed equal protection under the law which is illegal and unconstitutional. It would be the same thing (in a legal sense) as not allowing a white person and a African-American to marry (which a short time ago was also illegal).

Comparing it to a right to murder makes no sense because everyone has a right to life and to not be harmed. Murder causes physical harm to another human being. It has nothing to do with equal protection under the law which is what the judge's decision hinged on. Also, it doesn't matter if the people or a legislature voted on it if it is unconstitutional. If it violates a clear principle like equal protection then it can be struck down by the courts. That's why they were created as part of the system of checks and balances.

Please note that nowhere in here have I made a moral judgement about same-sex marriage. All I have done is pointed out the legality behind it. I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this and everyone has a right to their moral beliefs. You are free to discourage the practice of homosexuality on moral grounds until the cows come home, but the fact remains that if you award legal protections with a certain status and then refuse that status to a certain group of people you are denying equal protection under the law.

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Wow, with the majority being ignored, overruled, and going with what the minority wants, one day all of the murders and outlaws will get together and want their way, and they will get it because kiwimacahau says, "you cannot withhold a legal right from a group of people because some other group, majority of not, feels that it should be withheld."



Judges have to much power, plus they're prejudices, and they use their prejudices in their decision making. Judges should not be able to over rule the majority. When they do this, this nations stops being a government by the people and for the people.

And this in not a Christian nation, if it was, them we would abide by God's way. As a nation, we are mocking God, by legalizing sins against Him.

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Wow, with the majority being ignored, overruled, and going with what the minority wants, one day all of the murders and outlaws will get together and want their way, and they will get it because kiwimacahau says, "you cannot withhold a legal right from a group of people because some other group, majority of not, feels that it should be withheld."



Judges have to much power, plus they're prejudices, and they use their prejudices in their decision making. Judges should not be able to over rule the majority. When they do this, this nations stops being a government by the people and for the people.

And this in not a Christian nation, if it was, them we would abide by God's way. As a nation, we are mocking God, by legalizing sins against Him.


You OBviously havn't figured out yet Jerry that the "majority" is wrong a lot of the time. And, thank the good Lord, we are not democracy. We are a republic. So to the extent that the "majority" is in favor of something which violates the constitutions, then the "majority" just doesn't matter. Their beliefs, desires and needs are absolutely irrelevant. And trust me, you want it that way.

There is no doubt that homosexuality is a sin and it is immoral. However, that does not give us the right to enforce our laws prejudicially against homosexuals. In this country at least, we are all afforded equal protection under the law. What boils through the most in this matter, and the judge's opinion points it out, is that the motive behind denying homosexuals the right to vote is purely emotional. It is totally void of reason and rationality. It shows nothing more than gay marriage opponent's desire to withold a privilege they themsevles hold from homosexuals based purely on religion. Even as a Christian who does not agree with homosexuality, I cannot validly contend that denying gays the right to marry will make them stop being gay. It will also do nothing to the millions of heterosexual marriages in this country as well. In fact, it will have absolutely no affect on life and society as we know it, other than allowing a few more people an additional income tax deduction (and I think we all can agree that that is a good thing). Just as the time when whites and blacks couldn't intermarry has come and gone, so will the time when homosexuals can't marry.

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What is being advocated here is what occured during the time of Judges, every man doing what is right in their own eyes.

Either we have rules and laws which restrict some and reward others based upon the foundation of law, which is always based upon one moral viewpoint or another, or we have what pagans love to say, do what you will.

Pedophiles and polygamists are awaiting the legalization of homosexual "marriage" so they can press the same argument that the law can't give rights to homosexuals and then deny them to their group. By the arguments put forth by some here, we must allow them the same rights.

Also, as our Founders plainly proclaimed, the Constitution and government they established were created for a moral, religious (Christian) people and would not work for any other. We no longer have a land where the people are moral or care about Christian principles. This is why we see such abominations as even the idea of accepting homosexual "marriage".

Scripture is very clear that where anything, government or otherwise, goes against the Word of God, Christians are to stand with the Word of God. The Word of God is clear that homosexuality is a sin, an abominible sin even, and the Word of God is clear Christians are to shine the light of the Word upon such sin, exposing the darkness, standing firm against sin.

If a professing Christian supports homosexuality in any manner, whatever their reasons, they are sinning and not abiding in the Word.

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What is being advocated here is what occured during the time of Judges, every man doing what is right in their own eyes.

Either we have rules and laws which restrict some and reward others based upon the foundation of law, which is always based upon one moral viewpoint or another, or we have what pagans love to say, do what you will.

Pedophiles and polygamists are awaiting the legalization of homosexual "marriage" so they can press the same argument that the law can't give rights to homosexuals and then deny them to their group. By the arguments put forth by some here, we must allow them the same rights.

Also, as our Founders plainly proclaimed, the Constitution and government they established were created for a moral, religious (Christian) people and would not work for any other. We no longer have a land where the people are moral or care about Christian principles. This is why we see such abominations as even the idea of accepting homosexual "marriage".

Scripture is very clear that where anything, government or otherwise, goes against the Word of God, Christians are to stand with the Word of God. The Word of God is clear that homosexuality is a sin, an abominible sin even, and the Word of God is clear Christians are to shine the light of the Word upon such sin, exposing the darkness, standing firm against sin.

If a professing Christian supports homosexuality in any manner, whatever their reasons, they are sinning and not abiding in the Word.


Ok then. What do we do with them? There ability to marry has nothing to do with their homosexuality, so what do we do to keep them from being homosexual?

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The ruling wrt prop 8 was based on the law of the land, you cannot withhold a legal right from a group of people because some other group, majority of not, feels that it should be withheld.


PrOBlem here: there is no "law of the land" which dictates that same-sex marriage is legal. That is what prop8 was about. It was a referendum for the state of CA.

And that brings up another point: It is a misnomer to believe that, because the country was federally set up as a Republic, there is never to be a referendum vote. Each state has the right to put what referendums up to the citizens of that state. And the 10th amendment was included to keep the federal government out of state business.

Prop8 was a referendum set up for the people of CA. It was not something that was being done on a federal level, but at a state level. And the people of CA were well within their rights to vote the way they chose to vote. (just as they are well within their rights as a state to vote to legalize marijuana, even though I am against that - and people who are against prop8, voted on by the people, will support legalization of marijuana, voted on by the people [when it happens]. That's pretty telling)

A federal referendum would violate the US Constitution, but not a state referendum. The CA Supreme Court declared that the referendum was NOT in violation of the Constitution. So, this federal judge (who is a homosexual, BTW - hmmm...) had absolely no business to throw out the votes of the people. But it's not the first time...

What do we do to keep people from being homosexual? Christians need to get busy telling others about Christ. Not just homosexuals, but all lost. There have been large numbers of homosexuals saved and turned from that lifestyle.

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PrOBlem here: there is no "law of the land" which dictates that same-sex marriage is legal. That is what prop8 was about. It was a referendum for the state of CA.

And that brings up another point: It is a misnomer to believe that, because the country was federally set up as a Republic, there is never to be a referendum vote. Each state has the right to put what referendums up to the citizens of that state. And the 10th amendment was included to keep the federal government out of state business.

Prop8 was a referendum set up for the people of CA. It was not something that was being done on a federal level, but at a state level. And the people of CA were well within their rights to vote the way they chose to vote. (just as they are well within their rights as a state to vote to legalize marijuana, even though I am against that - and people who are against prop8, voted on by the people, will support legalization of marijuana, voted on by the people [when it happens]. That's pretty telling)

A federal referendum would violate the US Constitution, but not a state referendum. The CA Supreme Court declared that the referendum was NOT in violation of the Constitution. So, this federal judge (who is a homosexual, BTW - hmmm...) had absolely no business to throw out the votes of the people. But it's not the first time...

What do we do to keep people from being homosexual? Christians need to get busy telling others about Christ. Not just homosexuals, but all lost. There have been large numbers of homosexuals saved and turned from that lifestyle.


The 14th Amendment applies the equal protection clause to the states.

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The 14th Amendment applies the equal protection clause to the states.

Sorry, but that doesn't truly apply - if it did, I'm sure that the CA Supreme Court would have said so - they are usually a pretty liberal bunch. Equal protection doesn't mean marriage. *shrugs* Application of amendments needs to be done by looking up intent.

Amendments 13-15 were specifically dealing with racism...not at ALL the same thing as same sex marriage, and truly an insult to blacks!

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