Canaan's curse

[irishman]

Gen.9:19-25

Canaan's curse was not resultant from an act of homosexuality, as some imply! The Bible does not even hint at such a foolish thought. The “sin” was a blatant disrespect for parental authority, by making light of his dads shame. This is so foreign to us today that we must come up with some silly, off-the-wall explanation for a passage we don’t understand. Was not a child stoned to death for dishonoring his parents? The law demanded it, and it is one of the “ten commandments”, in fact, the first of the six commandment concerning mans dealings with man! (Ex.20:12 and Ex 21:17 with Mt. 15:4). Nakedness was always a sign of shame, and a son was to respectfully cover the shame, and not make light of it! This is why Ham was cursed, for disrespect to (parental) authority, and, perhaps, any other close authority. If one is disrespectful to those he loves the most, how much more so to an authority that he doesn’t know intimately?

No son ought to look upon his fathers nakedness, it is a shame to the father, as well as the son. Mothers, your daughters ought to have the same respect for you too. Though it appeared accidental in Hams case, he still did not turn away and cover his fathers shame; for this his son was cursed forever. Let the sin of ham be a reminder to us that we affect the lives of others! Our children may suffer from our foolishness, and in fact, many generations may suffer because of one act of disOBedience.

God takes authority serious, He ordained it, and it is to be honored at any level. This doesn't mean that the man in office is always the one God wants there (this world is the devils domain for now Lk. 4:6), but the office is His, and was established by Him for justice and equity, and the punishment of evil doers.

Edited August 3, 2010 by irishman

[HappyChristian]

Thank you for this, irishman. I have long had a prOBlem with the thought that it was a homosexual encounter that brought the curse - and always felt that it was the fact that Ham looked on his father's nakedness that caused it. That fits with your thought of disrespect. After all, Ham knew his father had gotten drunk, so what was he doing going into his private area? And the fact that the other brothers took a garment and walked backwards indicates that they were being respectful. I think the idea to have been started by someone who wants to see something sexual in every aspect of the Bible!

[heartstrings]

A former pastor of ours taught that Ham committed a homosexual act and, for the reasons you described, I never agreed with it. The offensive act was in "seeing" the nakedness, nothing more is said or implied. He also taught that Black people were destined to be slaves because of this curse, when the Bible says nothing of the kind.

But notice that the perpetrator, Ham, was not cursed: his youngest son Canaan was.
Noah began as a just man, perfect in his generations, who walked with God. But in chapter nine we find Noah not walking with God, His generations not all perfect, and Noah doing an unjust thing....he cursed his grandson for something he didn't even do. The "preacher of righteousness" had become backslid.... a warning to us all.

Edited August 3, 2010 by heartstrings

[Miss Linda]

The life of Noah is one of my favorite stories. There are so many OBject lessons in his life, and the subject of OBedience is a principle theme throughout. Noah was OBedient to God's commandments to build an ark and fill it with God's creation. "And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him" (Gen. 6:5). He was mocked and ridiculed by the people of the day who thought he should take his ease, enjoy his life, give no thought to God's will or to live a life holy and separate from the worldly people who had so displeased God. His faithfulness during this period of his life is wonderful to think on!

The fate of Canaan as a result of Ham's disOBedience has always underscored for me the fact that God expects OBedience of His followers--not just OBedience to Him but OBedience to all those whom He has placed in authority over us. OBedience to civil authorities, OBedience of children to their parents, wives to their husbands, church members to their pastors, workers to their managers, and so forth. Even if those in authority over us are not always just, fair or kind we are commanded to show our faith in God by our OBedience to authority figures:

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; or u

nt

o governors, as u

nt

o them that are se

nt

by him for the punishme

nt

of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: as free, and n

ot

using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the serva

nt

s of God. Honour all men. Love the br

ot

herhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Serva

nt

s, be subject to your masters with all fear; n

ot

only to the good and ge

nt

le, but also to the froward. For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patie

nt

ly? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patie

nt

ly, this is acceptable with God

. (I Peter 2:13-20).

Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to

OB

ey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but ge

nt

le, shewing all meekness u

nt

o all men

. (Titus 3:1-2)

Abraham's wife Sarah was unjust and unkind to her maidservant Hagar, so much so that Hagar ran away. But God commanded her to return to Sarah and to submit to her authority despite her poor treatment:

And the angel of the LORD said u

nt

o her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands

. (Genesis 16:9)

[Wilchbla]

The sin of Ham was not sodomizing Noah and it definitely wasn't seeing his father's nakedness which is really silly to suggest. It was sleeping with Noah's wife. The phrase "seeing your father's nakedness" or "uncovering your father's nakedness" is interpreted in Levitucus 16:8.

Lev. 16:8- The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

You should always use the language of the Bible to interpret itself.

[Anon]

Its pretty plain he saw it and then went outside to mock his father to his brothers. That was the sin.

Look at what happened to the boys who made fun of Elisha's bald head. Eaten by bears...its not a light crime.

[HappyChristian]

The sin of Ham was not sodomizing Noah and it definitely wasn't seeing his father's nakedness which is really silly to suggest. It was sleeping with Noah's wife. The phrase "seeing your father's nakedness" or "uncovering your father's nakedness" is interpreted in Levitucus 16:8.

Lev. 16:8- The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

You should always use the language of the Bible to interpret itself.

Except that the two brothers are shown as taking a garment to cover their father's nakedness - and upon Noah's awakening, he knew what Ham had done "to him." I don't think scripture is talking about him sleeping with Noah's wife - I do believe that if that were the case, God would have said so in plainer language, as He did in Corinthians. And I don't think suggesting that seeing his father's nakedness and then mocking about it is really silly. Especially in light of the verse in Proverbs 30:17 that tells us:

The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to OBey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.

That is using the language of the Bible to interpret itself as well. As Kitagirl said, it's not a light thing to mock one's parents.

[heartstrings]

The sin of Ham was not sodomizing Noah and it definitely wasn't seeing his father's nakedness which is really silly to suggest. It was sleeping with Noah's wife. The phrase "seeing your father's nakedness" or "uncovering your father's nakedness" is interpreted in Levitucus 16:8.

Lev. 16:8- The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

You should always use the language of the Bible to interpret itself.

One prOBlem....Genesis 9 don't say that he uncovered his Fathers nakedness. It simply says he "saw"...And "seeing" the nakedness was the prOBlem.....And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Here's what went down....
Noah squeezed him a mess of grapes then allowed the juice to ferment. Then Noah began to drink it and began to get a "buzz", but instead of stopping, he kept on drinking until he was hammered. For some odd reason he was also buck naked. And where was MRS. Noah while this was going on? Anyway, the Bible says that "Wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging and he that is deceived thereby is not wise". Noah was plastered, my friends...stinkin' drunk. Was it the first time? I doubt it...he was "an husbandman" so he was in the vineyard profession. But anyway, when the son came in , saw Dad laying there passed out in his birthday suit; instead of looking away and honouring his Dad by covering him up, he just leaves him laying there naked and he goes out and tells his brothers....prOBably laughed about it. That's all that happened.....Then Noah wakes up with a hangover, and unjustly proclaims a curse on his own grandson who had nothing to do with it. Moral of the story? "Wine is a mocker........." and Noah was OBviously out of fellowship with God. Edited August 3, 2010 by heartstrings

[irishman]

One prOBlem....Genesis 9 don't say that he uncovered his Fathers nakedness. It simply says he "saw"...And "seeing" the nakedness was the prOBlem.....And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Here's what went down....
Noah squeezed him a mess of grapes then allowed the juice to ferment. Then Noah began to drink it and began to get a "buzz", but instead of stopping, he kept on drinking until he was hammered. For some odd reason he was also buck naked. And where was MRS. Noah while this was going on? Anyway, the Bible says that "Wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging and he that is deceived thereby is not wise". Noah was plastered, my friends...stinkin' drunk. Was it the first time? I doubt it...he was "an husbandman" so he was in the vineyard profession. But anyway, when the son came in , saw Dad laying there passed out in his birthday suit; instead of looking away and honouring his Dad by covering him up, he just leaves him laying there naked and he goes out and tells his brothers....prOBably laughed about it. That's all that happened.....Then Noah wakes up with a hangover, and unjustly proclaims a curse on his own grandson who had nothing to do with it. Moral of the story? "Wine is a mocker........." and Noah was OBviously out of fellowship with God.

heartstrings, your rendering seems almost vulgar. Sorry, I do mean to be offensive, but the slang and the "street talk" seem a bit out of place to me. My 2 cents worth, (although I was not asked!)

[heartstrings]

I appologize. Sorry it offended you.
Here is a revised version.....

One prOBlem....Genesis 9 don't say that he uncovered his Fathers nakedness. It simply says he "saw"...And "seeing" the nakedness was the prOBlem.....And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Here's what happened
Noah extracted some grape juice then allowed the juice to ferment. Noah then began to drink it and he kept on drinking until he was in a drunken stupor. For some odd reason he was also completely naked. And where was MRS. Noah while this was going on? Anyway, the Bible says that "Wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging and he that is deceived thereby is not wise". Noah was very drunk; extremely drunk. Was it the first time? I doubt it: he was "an husbandman" so he was in the vineyard profession. But anyway, when Ham came in , saw his Father laying there passed out completely naked; instead of looking away and honouring his Dad by covering him up, he just leaves him laying there naked and he goes out and tells his brothers....prOBably laughed about it. That's all that happened.....Then Noah wakes up with a hangover, and unjustly proclaims a curse on his own grandson who had nothing to do with it. Moral of the story? "Wine is a mocker........." and Noah was OBviously out of fellowship with God.

[Revelation3:20]

Noah was very drunk; extremely drunk. Was it the first time? I doubt it: he was "an husbandman" so he was in the vineyard profession.

What does Genesis 9:20 say? it says " Noah began to be an husbandman". It may well have been that he became drunken without realizing what was happening. I serious doubt he had a habit of drunkenness.

Then Noah wakes up with a hangover, and unjustly proclaims a curse on his own grandson who had nothing to do with it.

What makes you think it was unjust? the only way the curse would have any effect is if the curse was from God. Would God bring to pass a unjust curse pronounced by a man with a hangover? Before we think to poorly of Noah and proclaim that he was acting unjustly we should consider that God consistently uses him as an example of a very righteous man.

"Ezekiel 14:12-14 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying, Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and JOB, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD."

So if an all knowing God picks Noah as an example of one of the three most righteous men in his sight who have lived up to that point maybe we should think twice about considering him to be a backsliden drunkard pronouncing unjust curses while suffering from a hangover. There might have been a lot more to the story than what little bit is revealed in scripture. Edited August 4, 2010 by Revelation3:20

[irishman]

I appologize. Sorry it offended you.
Here is a revised version.....

One prOBlem....Genesis 9 don't say that he uncovered his Fathers nakedness. It simply says he "saw"...And "seeing" the nakedness was the prOBlem.....And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Here's what happened
Noah extracted some grape juice then allowed the juice to ferment. Noah then began to drink it and he kept on drinking until he was in a drunken stupor. For some odd reason he was also completely naked. And where was MRS. Noah while this was going on? Anyway, the Bible says that "Wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging and he that is deceived thereby is not wise". Noah was very drunk; extremely drunk. Was it the first time? I doubt it: he was "an husbandman" so he was in the vineyard profession. But anyway, when Ham came in , saw his Father laying there passed out completely naked; instead of looking away and honouring his Dad by covering him up, he just leaves him laying there naked and he goes out and tells his brothers....prOBably laughed about it. That's all that happened.....Then Noah wakes up with a hangover, and unjustly proclaims a curse on his own grandson who had nothing to do with it. Moral of the story? "Wine is a mocker........." and Noah was OBviously out of fellowship with God.

Thank yo for being so cordial heartstrings, I was worried about this post all night last night! Thank you also for changing it, and showing that you do care how things are presented on an open forum.

[heartstrings]

What does Genesis 9:20 say? it says " Noah began to be an husbandman". It may well have been that he became drunken without realizing what was happening. I serious doubt he had a habit of drunkenness.




What makes you think it was unjust? the only way the curse would have any effect is if the curse was from God. Would God bring to pass a unjust curse pronounced by a man with a hangover? Before we think to poorly of Noah and proclaim that he was acting unjustly we should consider that God consistently uses him as an example of a very righteous man.

"Ezekiel 14:12-14 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying, Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and JOB, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD."

So if an all knowing God picks Noah as an example of one of the three most righteous men in his sight who have lived up to that point maybe we should think twice about considering him to be a backsliden drunkard pronouncing unjust curses while suffering from a hangover. There might have been a lot more to the story than what little bit is revealed in scripture.

Revelation3:20,
Noah is listed in the "heroes of faith" and we will meet him in Heaven some day. The Bible also says that David was a man after God's own heart but we all know what backlidden condtion he fell into. One thing about God's word; it tells us about Godly men, but it doesn' hide their mistakes. They are written for our admonition.

Does History, including the Bible, record the descendents of Canaan as being more prone to servitude than any other race? Yes or no? Because descendents of Shem (the israelites) were enslaved in Egypt for 400 years, then another 70 in Babylon, then subjected by Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Germans etc..
Was Noah's curse effective naturally? PrOBably. Supernaturally? No. Canaan(the Individual) may have been treated that way by grandpa Noah and made to serve his other kinfolk but do you see where "Canaanites" were particularly singled out as "servants of servants" more than any other people group?

[JerryNumbers]

Revelation3:20,
Noah is listed in the "heroes of faith" and we will meet him in Heaven some day. The Bible also says that David was a man after God's own heart but we all know what backlidden condtion he fell into. One thing about God's word; it tells us about Godly men, but it doesn' hide their mistakes. They are written for our admonition.

Does History, including the Bible, record the descendents of Canaan as being more prone to servitude than any other race? Yes or no? Because descendents of Shem (the israelites) were enslaved in Egypt for 400 years, then another 70 in Babylon, then subjected by Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Germans etc..
Was Noah's curse effective naturally? PrOBably. Supernaturally? No. Canaan(the Individual) may have been treated that way by grandpa Noah and made to serve his other kinfolk but do you see where "Canaanites" were particularly singled out as "servants of servants" more than any other people group?

Isn't that more proof that grace is real, that Jesus righteousness will be counted for the saved person righteousness?

[trc123]

I appologize. Sorry it offended you.
Here is a revised version.....

One prOBlem....Genesis 9 don't say that he uncovered his Fathers nakedness. It simply says he "saw"...And "seeing" the nakedness was the prOBlem.....And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Here's what happened
Noah extracted some grape juice then allowed the juice to ferment. Noah then began to drink it and he kept on drinking until he was in a drunken stupor. For some odd reason he was also completely naked. And where was MRS. Noah while this was going on? Anyway, the Bible says that "Wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging and he that is deceived thereby is not wise". Noah was very drunk; extremely drunk. Was it the first time? I doubt it: he was "an husbandman" so he was in the vineyard profession. But anyway, when Ham came in , saw his Father laying there passed out completely naked; instead of looking away and honouring his Dad by covering him up, he just leaves him laying there naked and he goes out and tells his brothers....prOBably laughed about it. That's all that happened.....Then Noah wakes up with a hangover, and unjustly proclaims a curse on his own grandson who had nothing to do with it. Moral of the story? "Wine is a mocker........." and Noah was OBviously out of fellowship with God.

Perhaps you could rephrase this using the Elizabethan vernacular, I would find that much more classy.

Thank you.