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Dealing with rejectors.


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Not true. A woman is to never hold an authority over men. Never. Because the Bible say so. As stated in 1 Tim 2:12, to wit: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." This is not a suggestion, as LIEberals would have us believe. This is the law!

I recommend you peruse this preacher's wonderful sermons on the subject:



From my understanding of that preacher, he would actually agree with HappyChristian. He said, "She is to sumbit to no man but her husband." While I don't agree with all he says, I don't understand how you came to your conclusions under his teaching. I think he made it pretty clear that a woman is to only sumbit to her husband alone. In the video he also states that no man is going to tell his wife what to do.

I am still a little confused as to where you are coming from. Maybe so we can all better understand you can clarify something for me and maybe everyone else. The woman you called a satanist; is she a woman preacher or did she disagree with you doctrinally or is it a totally different situation. Maybe we could all better respond if we understood the situation.
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My fellow Christians,

Recently I had a debate of sorts with a satanist woman who insisted that she was a Christian. That despite disrespectfully talking to a man. What's more, she and her crowd were adamant in rejecting 1 Tim 2:15, getting upset and rejectionist regarding the reality of her going to hell. How do you deal with such heathens? How do you minister to them?

In the blood of the Lamb,
Brother Thomas


I have a few questions for you, Brother Thomas...
Did you give the woman a chance to explain why she believes that she's a Christian? Did she make a solid profession of faith?
How did she speak disrespectfully to a man? How is that any worse than you (a man) speaking disrespectfully to (or about) her?
Who were "she and her crowd," and how did they "adamantly" reject 1 Timothy 2:15? This verse states: "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety."
I'm afraid that I would also "get upset" if someone insisted that I am going to hell, when I know very well that God's mercy has saved me.

You asked how one should minister to "such heathens." My first recommendation would be to ask questions instead of condemning them and labeling them with super-charged terms like "satanist," "rejectionist," and "heathen." If these people are truly unsaved, then they are, as Christ said, "like sheep without a shepherd" and should evoke compassion, not condemnation. Condemning isn't our jOB, anyway. One cannot "minister" to someone after he has chewed them up and spit them out. Edited by Annie
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I have a few questions for you, Brother Thomas...
Did you give the woman a chance to explain why she believes that she's a Christian? Did she make a solid profession of faith?
How did she speak disrespectfully to a man? How is that any worse than you (a man) speaking disrespectfully to (or about) her?
Who were "she and her crowd," and how did they "adamantly" reject 1 Timothy 2:15? This verse states: "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety."
I'm afraid that I would also "get upset" if someone insisted that I am going to hell, when I know very well that God's mercy has saved me.

You asked how one should minister to "such heathens." My first recommendation would be to ask questions instead of condemning them and labeling them with super-charged terms like "satanist," "rejectionist," and "heathen." If these people are truly unsaved, then they are, as Christ said, "like sheep without a shepherd" and should evoke compassion, not condemnation. Condemning isn't our jOB, anyway. One cannot "minister" to someone after he has chewed them up and spit them out.


Annie, I 100% agree. I would also like to know the answers to these questions, if Brother Thomas doesn't mind, I think that would help us all to understand the situation better. Again, I think that it is very dangerous for Christians to throw around terms like "satanist" and "heathen" when someone doesn't agree with us. Especially if that person says they are a Christian.
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Some answers:

Did you give the woman a chance to explain why she believes that she's a Christian? Did she make a solid profession of faith?
She had a chance to explain that. She did not explain it, just insisted that she "was saved".

How did she speak disrespectfully to a man?
It was a matter of her manner and adamant rejection of the Bible.

How is that any worse than you (a man) speaking disrespectfully to (or about) her?
First off, there is no disrespect in labeling one what he/she is. If one is false Christian, we have to say so. We are most certainly not lie or sugarcoat the truth. (Proverbs 6:16-19)

Who were "she and her crowd," and how did they "adamantly" reject 1 Timothy 2:15? This verse states: "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety."

She was insisting that she was saved despite not having children. Her crowd were her supporters who like her rejected the Bible and were offensive to myself and other preachers for preaching the Bible.

Hope that answers your heart's questionings.

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Thomas I am very confused and lost as to what you are saying. Are you saying this woman is not saved because she does not have children? Is she a woman pastor? Your answers are not clear. If you could please help by making your answers more clear and precise we might better understand. What did this woman say to offend you?

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Thomas I am very confused and lost as to what you are saying. Are you saying this woman is not saved because she does not have children? Is she a woman pastor? Your answers are not clear. If you could please help by making your answers more clear and precise we might better understand. What did this woman say to offend you?


I don't know whether the woman is a "pastor". Our conversation centered on the verses in Timothy 2, specifically on the Biblical requirement for women to bear children in order to be Saved. I know many people get upset for me saying that. But that's Bible for you. That's what it says. I believe it. Do you?
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Some answers:

Did you give the woman a chance to explain why she believes that she's a Christian? Did she make a solid profession of faith?
She had a chance to explain that. She did not explain it, just insisted that she "was saved".

How did she speak disrespectfully to a man?
It was a matter of her manner and adamant rejection of the Bible.

How is that any worse than you (a man) speaking disrespectfully to (or about) her?
First off, there is no disrespect in labeling one what he/she is. If one is false Christian, we have to say so. We are most certainly not lie or sugarcoat the truth. (Proverbs 6:16-19)

Who were "she and her crowd," and how did they "adamantly" reject 1 Timothy 2:15? This verse states: "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety."

She was insisting that she was saved despite not having children. Her crowd were her supporters who like her rejected the Bible and were offensive to myself and other preachers for preaching the Bible.

Hope that answers your heart's questionings.

Ok first off did you give her your profession of faith? Did you give her the gospel message? Did you at anytime ask her if she is "born again" or just simply ask, "Are you a christian?" Was her "adamant rejection" of scripture about what you believe 1 timothy 2:15 is saying? If she disagreed with you, was it because she doesn't believe in order for women to be saved you have to bear children? Are you teaching truth? If im reading your last statement right, that women have to be saved or born again through child bearing you are in grave error! Period!
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From 1 Timothy 2:

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety.

That's what the Bible teaches. It's not my invention, but what we read in the Word. Do you believe the Bible?

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I don't know whether the woman is a "pastor". Our conversation centered on the verses in Timothy 2, specifically on the Biblical requirement for women to bear children in order to be Saved. I know many people get upset for me saying that. But that's Bible for you. That's what it says. I believe it. Do you?

Well I guess you answered it before my initial reply. You are wrong and I know what 1 timothy 2:15 says and it isn't about a womens means of salvation. Jesus makes it clear how to be born again. You must be born of water and of Spirit. John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety.

Lets see if I were to read in a context of error I would say she is saved by them continuing in faith and charity and holiness and child bearing. But that isn't what it is saying. Read it context and it is saying that she won't have trouble in birthing children if "they" continue in faith and charity and holiness. So I guess by your understanding if the husband is not faithful or does not have charity or isn't holy she is in jeopardy to condmenation every hour.
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Jesus makes it clear how to be born again. You must be born of water and of Spirit.

Indeed! But let's look at these verses closely:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This verse talks about men. Not women! There is no denying of the fact that men and the womenfolk are differently and are to be treated differently. 1 Timothy (and many others) clearly comment on this.

So let's look at these verses in context:

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety.

I think it is clear that "shall be saved in childbearing" refers to the woman's transgression.

There are many out there who for some reason feel uncomfortable with these verses. As a man of the Word, I am not sure why, since the Word is very clear about this. Remember, as Christians we have to depend on the Bible. Not on what someone tells us. Not on something we learned (except from the Bible). Edited by ThomasCooper
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I don't know whether the woman is a "pastor". Our conversation centered on the verses in Timothy 2, specifically on the Biblical requirement for women to bear children in order to be Saved. I know many people get upset for me saying that. But that's Bible for you. That's what it says. I believe it. Do you?


I believe what the Bible says, but I do not believe man made theology. That is exactly what you are believing. The Bible says that salvation is through Jesus Christ ALONE! It is through faith and not by works. Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye (GENDER NEUTRAL) saved through faith; and that not of yourselves (GENDER NEUTRAL): it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Last I checked, child bearing is quite a work. Ask any woman who has given birth, and I am sure they would agree. It is not easy. Scripture is not contrary to Scripture, but in your own mind you have made it contrary. In no way shape or form is child bearing a requirement for Scripture, and you sir and in error. You have added to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You need to read 1 Timothy 2:15 in context. Edited by amblivion
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Wow, so I guess everyone has been wrong all this time. So much for "let the little children come unto me" because if they are female children forget about it until they are old enough to have children. The bible says that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Childbearing is a work. That is adding to the work that has already been done on the cross and saying that the sacrifice of Christ is not enough to forgive our sins. That, my friend, is the essence of preaching another gospel, and I'm not surprised that this woman was upset with you.

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I believe what the Bible says, but I do not believe man made theology. That is exactly what you are believing. The Bible says that salvation is through Jesus Christ ALONE! It is through faith and not by works. Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye (GENDER NEUTRAL) saved through faith; and that not of yourselves (GENDER NEUTRAL): it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Last I checked, child bearing is quite a work. Ask any woman who has given birth, and I am sure they would agree. It is not easy. Scripture is not contrary to Scripture, but in your own mind you have made it contrary. In no way shape or form is child bearing a requirement for Scripture, and you sir and in error. You have added to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You need to read 1 Timothy 2:15 in context.

What is it that you feel I added to 1 Timothy 2:15? I posted it here in context. It says what it says. I am not adding a thing.

On the other hand, let's look at Ephesians 2:8,9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." This is what it says. I accept it 100% for what it says. And it in no way contradicts 1 Timothy 2:15. Rather 1 Timothy 2:15 complements it.
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Indeed! But let's look at these verses closely:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This verse talks about men. Not women! There is no denying of the fact that men and the womenfolk are differently and are to be treated differently. 1 Timothy (and many others) clearly comment on this.

So let's look at these verses in context:

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety.

I think it is clear that "shall be saved in childbearing" refers to the woman's transgression.

There are many out there who for some reason feel uncomfortable with these verses. As a man of the Word, I am not sure why, since the Word is very clear about this.

I urge you to read John 4:4-42
4And he must needs go through Samaria.

5Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that JacOB gave to his son Joseph.

6Now JacOB's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.

7There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

8(For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

9Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

11The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

12Art thou greater than our father JacOB, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

13Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

15The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.

16Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.

17The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:

18For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

27And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?

28The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,

29Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

30Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

31In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.

32But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.

33Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?

34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

35Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

36And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

37And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.

38I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

39And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

40So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.

41And many more believed because of his own word;

42And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Not one time did Jesus tell her she had to bear children to be saved.
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Wow, so I guess everyone has been wrong all this time. So much for "let the little children come unto me" because if they are female children forget about it until they are old enough to have children.

Wouldn't the Lord preserve His own?
Psalm 91:10
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