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JerryNumbers

Ground Zero Mosque Should Not Be Built

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<br />prop·a·gan·da   [prop-uh-gan-duh]  <br />–noun<br />1.<br />information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.<br />2.<br />the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.<br />3.<br />the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.<br /><br />Propaganda is not subjective and truth most definitely isn't.  It is not the jOB of the American government to uphold Christian ideals nor would it be right for them to do so.  The government cannot favor one religion over the other.  <br /><br />Also, I disagree that Christianity is holding Muslims back from building a community center or a mosque or practicing their religion as they see fit.  At least I certainly hope that is not the case.  Instead I see the prOBlem as ignorance.  In some cases it is willful, in some cases it is not (so don't think I am saying ignorance in an accusatory manner, just stating it).  <br /><br />People OBject to this and I think that it is an important topic to discuss.  However, I would like to challenge you logically present your points and to discuss this with me and others without posting articles or falling back on the same old &quot;America used to be a Christian nation but now it's evil so we better hope Jesus comes back soon&quot; argument.  Not trying to be rude or offensive, but I'd like to engage in a meaningful discussion about these issues if possible.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

OBviously you do not believe the Bible, for the Holy Spirit is holding back evil, when its taken out, along with Jesus' Churches, well, just read what takes place during the 'tribulation & great tribulation' which will start after Jesus has come for His own.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

As for the other, I've already answerd.

I wrote:
"What one deems propaganda and or a truth is always base on one's core beliefs, values, where their sympathies lie."

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<br /><br /><br />

OBviously you do not believe the Bible


Really? There's no reason for that kind of accusation.

I have not stated or insinuated anywhere that I do not believe the Bible so I have no idea why you would suggest such a thing.

Since you have not offered anything new in your last 3 posts and are now resorting to personal attacks I can only assume that you have nothing left to add to the discussion. It's unfortunate that an otherwise interesting and civil discussion had to end this way.

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prop·a·gan·da   [prop-uh-gan-duh]
–noun
1.
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2.
the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3.
the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

Propaganda is not subjective and truth most definitely isn't. It is not the jOB of the American government to uphold Christian ideals nor would it be right for them to do so. The government cannot favor one religion over the other.

Also, I disagree that Christianity is holding Muslims back from building a community center or a mosque or practicing their religion as they see fit. At least I certainly hope that is not the case. Instead I see the prOBlem as ignorance. In some cases it is willful, in some cases it is not (so don't think I am saying ignorance in an accusatory manner, just stating it).

People OBject to this and I think that it is an important topic to discuss. However, I would like to challenge you logically present your points and to discuss this with me and others without posting articles or falling back on the same old "America used to be a Christian nation but now it's evil so we better hope Jesus comes back soon" argument. Not trying to be rude or offensive, but I'd like to engage in a meaningful discussion about these issues if possible.


Actually the government had traditonally upheld Christian ideas until about 50 years ago. I realize that we are long past that though. This is why democracy will eventually cause this country to fall because a house divided against itself cannot stand. History shows that democracies last appoximately 75 years before they fall due to corruption and immorality.

The mosque at ground zero is a great symbolic victory for Islam and Sharia Law againt Western Civilization and freedom.

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Really? There's no reason for that kind of accusation.

I have not stated or insinuated anywhere that I do not believe the Bible so I have no idea why you would suggest such a thing.

Since you have not offered anything new in your last 3 posts and are now resorting to personal attacks I can only assume that you have nothing left to add to the discussion. It's unfortunate that an otherwise interesting and civil discussion had to end this way.


It is true though CPR, the Holy Spirit has two jOBs (if I've read the scriptures accurately). One is to convict us of sin and the other is hold evil at bay. Once the rapture happens, the Holy Spirit will not hold evil at bay anymore and it will be rampant.

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It is true though CPR, the Holy Spirit has two jOBs (if I've read the scriptures accurately). One is to convict us of sin and the other is hold evil at bay. Once the rapture happens, the Holy Spirit will not hold evil at bay anymore and it will be rampant.


I'm not sure, I'm just guessing from the statements he has made, but I feel that CPR may not think that Islam is evil, plus he doe not know that the Holy Spirit is holding back evil during this church age.

And like many others, if he does not like the information, he calls it propaganda and or says its not true. with some one like that, there is no use debating them.

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Would America have allowed a Japanese temple to be built at Pearl Harbor during WWII?

How about a Nazi "education and understanding" building in London during WWII?

At one time Americans, as well as the English and most others, recognized enemies and established protections and otherwise regarding such during times of war.

Bible believing Christians should absolutely recognize the enemy status of the very ungodly, anti-Christ religion of Isalm and it's followers even if others don't.

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Would America have allowed a Japanese temple to be built at Pearl Harbor during WWII?

How about a Nazi "education and understanding" building in London during WWII?

At one time Americans, as well as the English and most others, recognized enemies and established protections and otherwise regarding such during times of war.

Bible believing Christians should absolutely recognize the enemy status of the very ungodly, anti-Christ religion of Isalm and it's followers even if others don't.


True, yet we actually live in a different America now. Seems the same ones who want Christians to be accepting, and tolerant, want to kick us and God out of America, but yet accepting and tolerant of Islam while they persecute Christians in Islam countries and hates America and will do anything and everything possible to kill Americans, even in our home land. Go figure.

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It is true though CPR, the Holy Spirit has two jOBs (if I've read the scriptures accurately). One is to convict us of sin and the other is hold evil at bay.


Thanks for your comment Dennis. Yes, that is my understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit from reading Scripture as well.


I'm not sure, I'm just guessing from the statements he has made, but I feel that CPR may not think that Islam is evil, plus he doe not know that the Holy Spirit is holding back evil during this church age.

And like many others, if he does not like the information, he calls it propaganda and or says its not true. with some one like that, there is no use debating them.


Jerry, I did not call your comment propaganda. I called your article biased and it was indeed from a biased source. As ptwild pointed out, there were some errors in the reporting.


Would America have allowed a Japanese temple to be built at Pearl Harbor during WWII?

How about a Nazi "education and understanding" building in London during WWII?

At one time Americans, as well as the English and most others, recognized enemies and established protections and otherwise regarding such during times of war.

Bible believing Christians should absolutely recognize the enemy status of the very ungodly, anti-Christ religion of Isalm and it's followers even if others don't.


No we would not. But this is what I've been trying to say throughout this thread. We had declared war with Japan. We had declared war with Nazi Germany. We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with Al Qaeda and various other terrorist organizations throughout the world. It's just not that easy.

You may view a spiritual war with Islam, but what I am talking about is the policy of the United States of America. A religious organization building a community center or a place of worship has to comply with local and federal laws, not another person's religion.

I am a Christian. I do not agree with their religion. However, I will defend their right to practice it.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

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For Christians, Christianity is to take precedence over any earthly ideas, including the American Constitution.

Many Christians from Asia, Africa and elsewhere have visited America longing to see this "great Christian nation" (most of the world still thinks of America as a Christian nation) only to be greatly troubled and disappointed to find American Christians placing the Constitution, their view of patriotism, political parties and such on equal basis with Scripture or even above such.

This is similar to those who have come to America from communist countries and can't believe how much communism has already corrupted America and how Americans (including many Christians) are embracing this.

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New York City Mayor Bloomberg made an excellent speech on the issue and articulated the ideals better than I could have. His full speech can be read here: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/08/bloomberg-stands-up-for-mosque.html

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Far from ground zero, opponents fight new mosques
31 mins ago

MURFREESBORO, Tenn. – Muslims trying to build houses of worship in the nation's heartland, far from the heated fight in New York over plans for a mosque near ground zero, are running into opponents even more hostile and aggressive.

Foes of proposed mosques have deployed dogs to intimidate Muslims holding prayer services and spray painted "Not Welcome" on a construction sign, then later ripped it apart.

The 13-story, $100 million Islamic center that could soon rise two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 attacks would dwarf the proposals elsewhere, yet the smaller projects in local communities are stoking a sharper kind of fear and anger than has showed up in New York.

In the Nashville suburb of Murfreesboro, opponents of a new Islamic center say they believe the mosque will be more than a place of prayer. They are afraid the 15-acre site that was once farmland will be turned into a terrorist training ground for Muslim militants bent on overthrowing the U.S. government.

"They are not a religion. They are a political, militaristic group," said BOB Shelton, a 76-year-old retiree who lives in the area.

Shelton was among several hundred demonstrators recently who wore "Vote for Jesus" T-shirts and carried signs that said: "No Sharia law for USA!," referring to the Islamic code of law. Others took their opposition further, spray painting the sign announcing the "Future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro" and tearing it up.

In Temecula, Calif., opponents brought dogs to protest a proposed 25,000-square-foot mosque that would sit on four acres next to a Baptist church. Opponents worry it will turn the town into haven for Islamic extremists, but mosque leaders say they are peaceful and just need more room to serve members.

Islam is a growing faith in the U.S., though Muslims represent less than 1 percent of the country's population. Ten years ago, there were about 1,200 mosques nationwide. Now there are roughly 1,900, according to Ihsan Bagby, professor of Islamic Studies at the University of Kentucky and a researcher on surveys of American mosques.

The growth involves Islamic centers expanding to accommodate more Muslims - as is the case in New York, California and Tennessee - as well as mosques cropping up in smaller, more isolated communities, Bagby said.

A 2007 survey of Muslim Americans by the Pew Research Center found that 39 percent of adult Muslims living in the United States were immigrants that had come here since 1990.

"In every religious community, one of the things that has happened over the course of immigration is that people get settled and eventually build something that says, 'We're here! We're not just camping,'" said Diana Eck, a professor of Comparative Religion at the Harvard University. "In part, that's because those communities have put down roots in America and made this their home."

Before the demonstration in Murfreesboro, a fundraiser was held for the new community center. Children behind a folding table sold homemade wooden plaques, door hangers and small serving trays decorated with glitter and messages like, "Peace," "I love being a Muslim" and "Freedom of Religion."

Mosque leader Essam Fathy, who helped plan the new building in Murfreesboro, has lived there for 30 years.

"I didn't think people would try that hard to oppose something that's in the Constitution," he said. "The Islamic center has been here since the early '80s, 12 years in this location. There's nothing different now except it's going to be a little bigger."

Bagby said that hasn't stopped foes from becoming more virulent.

"It was there before, but it didn't have as much traction. The larger public never embraced it," he said. "The level of anger, the level of hostility is much higher in the last few years."

The Murfreesboro mosque is one of three planned in the Nashville area that have drawn recent scrutiny.

Zuhdi Jasser, president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, a nonprofit that advocates for reform and modernization of Islam, said opposing mosques is no way to prevent terrorism.

Neighbors didn't want his family to build a mosque in 1979 in Neenah, Wis., because they didn't understand who Muslims were.

"If the Wisconsin mosque had not been allowed to be built, I, at 17, might have put up walls and become a different person," he said. "If we start preventing these from being built, the backlash will be increased radicalization."

A study by professors at the Duke University's Sanford School of Public Policy and the University of North Carolina backs up Jasser's statement. The study found that mosques, religious bookstores and other communal associations that bring Muslim-Americans together helps prevent radicalization.

In Murfreesboro, Imam Ossama Bahloul said the center has hired a security guard for Friday prayer services and a security camera constantly pans the parking lot and doors. Their fears are not without cause.

Two years ago, several men broke into the Islamic Center of Columbia, about 30 miles southwest of Murfreesboro, and torched it with molotov cocktails, stealing a stereo system and painting swastikas and "White Power" on the front of the building.

Bahloul said he hopes the controversy will die down with time. He said the situation has been hardest on the children.

"The second generation is facing a huge challenge because they did not think even for a second before that someone would say, 'You are not welcome.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100808/ap_on_re_us/us_mosque_opposition

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Al Qaeda and various other terrorist organizations are Islam's. Islam is a religion that teaches its members to murder Christians that will not convert to Islam. And Islam is EVIL. Why? It teaches its people to muder Christians who will not convert.

And yes, I knew you called the article propaganda, not my post.

Far From Ground Zero, Opponents Fight New Mosques

And rightly so.

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The liberalists want to believe they can create utopia on earth by constantly giving in and compromising with evil and enemies until we are all one happy family. There are many professing Christians who fall into the camp of those who believe man must bring about a perfect world before Christ will return.

However, the fact is that Islam is our enemy whether one chooses to view Islam through the lens of Scripture or even through Islam's own "holy book" and teachings, or by worldly standards.

If five klansmen or skinhad nazi wannabees gather together the media and police treat such as a threat to our entire country. How much more a threat are the millions of Muslims currently in America with more coming and more converting right here in America than are these tiny handfuls of misfits?

We are seeing a time when evil is called good and good evil just as Scripture warns of.

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It is just so sad to me to read that article and see that people are being treated like this for trying to practice their religion. Do you think that it is right or okay to do this to people of another religion? I'm not advocating a utopian society, but we do have freedom of religion in this country. If one religion loses that, what makes you think that you are far behind?

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It is just so sad to me to read that article and see that people are being treated like this for trying to practice their religion. Do you think that it is right or okay to do this to people of another religion? I'm not advocating a utopian society, but we do have freedom of religion in this country. If one religion loses that, what makes you think that you are far behind?


Islam is a militant "religion" whose aim is world domination. That's the reason we were told America had to fight Nazi Germany in WWII. That's the reason we were told America had to stand against communism.

Why should we accept those bent on world domination because they are "religious" when we spent the blood, lives and fortunes of many to stop Nazis and communists bent on the same thing?

The teachings and aim of Isalm are clear. All must become Muslim, whether on their own accord or by force, or they must be killed.

Freedom of religion doesn't mean a free pass for those bent upon our destruction. According the Founders, the original intent of the freedom of religion clause was only to prevent the central government from interfering in religious matters. The States and localities were free to endorse or deny any religion.

The Mormons were once viewed as a threat and were chased out of State after State until they finally left the States and settled in a territory near Salt Lake. They continued to be a potential threat and only after making deals with the central government and then receiving a "new revelation" which caused them to deny polygamy just in time to be considered for Statehood, were they finally viewed as less of a threat. Upon Statehood, Utah became for all practical purposes a Mormon State for a good many years.

All non-Muslims are viewed as enemies of Islam. The one overriding goal of Isalm is the complete Islamification of the world by any means. Their two main methods have been by force of arms and by infiltrating a country through immigration and conversion until they can wield enough power to more aggressively push their goal.

Should we support this in any way?

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:bang:

All Muslims are not extremists or terrorists just like all Christians are not vandalizing mosques or bombing Planned Parenthood clinics. There is some serious misinformation out there that people are thinking is true.

:bang:

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:bang:

All Muslims are not extremists or terrorists just like all Christians are not vandalizing mosques or bombing Planned Parenthood clinics. There is some serious misinformation out there that people are thinking is true.

:bang:


Islam is an "extremist" religion. Not all Muslims commit acts of terrorism, some have other parts to play...support of the terrorists via money, information, safe havens, etc.; infiltrating non-Muslim nations; gaining politcal power and pushing Islam from there; converting non-Muslims to the false religion of Islam; etc.

Islam teaches, not "extremists" or "terrorists", but Islam itself teaches that all non-Muslms must convert by choice or force or be exterminated. Islam teaches Muslims are to lie, cheat, steal, kill and do anything necessary to spread Islam and eradicate non-Muslims.

This is Islam. There is no non-extremist Islam because Islam is an extremist religion founded upon murder and war and promoting the destruction of all who refuse to become Muslim.

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Islam is an "extremist" religion. Not all Muslims commit acts of terrorism, some have other parts to play...support of the terrorists via money, information, safe havens, etc.; infiltrating non-Muslim nations; gaining politcal power and pushing Islam from there; converting non-Muslims to the false religion of Islam; etc.

Islam teaches, not "extremists" or "terrorists", but Islam itself teaches that all non-Muslms must convert by choice or force or be exterminated. Islam teaches Muslims are to lie, cheat, steal, kill and do anything necessary to spread Islam and eradicate non-Muslims.

This is Islam. There is no non-extremist Islam because Islam is an extremist religion founded upon murder and war and promoting the destruction of all who refuse to become Muslim.


Brother, they be many whose eyes are hid from the evils of Islam. Just as President Bush's eyes seemed to be hid from it as well by stating something similar to this, 'Islam is a religion of peace and there are a few extremist.' its the new political correct way in America, and the reason America is trying to kick God completely out of this country.

They cannot see the evil in Islam, they refuse to accept that its "founded upon murder and war and promoting the destruction of all who refuse to become Muslim," the truth you just posted. That is the very thing the Koran teaches, and all Muslims use it as their guide. And they refuse to see the persecution that Christians receive in their countries.

I have no idea how long this world will stand, how long before Jesus comes for His own. But before that event happens, the Islam's may well be in charge in America because the liberals have let them and promoted them as being a peaceful people.

One thing you left out, the Koran allows them to lie, even encourages them to lie, in order to advance their cause. And that is exactly what they're doing in order to advance their cause, take over America, the nation they hate. By the way, they will murder this own if they convert to Christianity.

Is Islam a peaceful religion?

BUSH CALLS ISLAM A PEACEFUL RELIGION, EMBRACES KORAN!


Is Islam a peaceful religion?

Peaceful religion is not spelled I-s-l-a-m


Pakistani Christian Couple Refuse to Convert to Islam. Husband Burned, Wife Raped


This is how Muslims treat Christians in that bastion of ‘moderate’ Islam – INDONESIA (WARNING: Truly Horrific Images)


Christian Man Raped, Murdered for Refusing to Convert to Islam, Family Says




No, peaceful is one thing Islam is not.

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:bang:

All Muslims are not extremists or terrorists just like all Christians are not vandalizing mosques or bombing Planned Parenthood clinics. There is some serious misinformation out there that people are thinking is true.

:bang:


I will grant that you may be right... but do tell... how do you tell an extremist from a non extremist? You usually can't until it's too late.

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I will grant that you may be right... but do tell... how do you tell an extremist from a non extremist? You usually can't until it's too late.


There is no "may be" about it. There have been muslims living in peace us in this country for generations. In my city alone there are three or four mosques and/or islamic centers and we have never had one iota of trouble with them. My neighbors are muslims and they detest Al Queda prOBably more so than most Americans because, not only do they find terrorism counter to their core beliefs, but also because of people like Jerry and John who now think that every muslim is a suicide bomber just waiting to launch their own jihad against us.

I would venture to say that most, if not all, the people on this board that hold this view either live in a very rural area that has no muslims, or they live in a very closed society in which they never interact with the muslims around them. All of their information about Islam comes from inflammatory websites or tag lines taken from the Koran with no muslim commentary about how said lines are to be interpreted. As CPR said previously, it's a matter of of either being uninformed or misinformed. It appears that this view (that all muslims are terrorist) did not exists until 9/11. It's as if people have forgoten that Islam has been with us since the 7th century and that muslims and Christians have been living side by side in many nations since that time.

There is no doubt that Islam, like Christianity, has an extremists element within it. However, like Christianity, the vast amount of evience suggests these extremists are a small minority. I have been to Cairo (the largest Muslim city on the planet) and Dubai and I was always treated with respect and civility. I would even say that those two muslim nations reminded me a lot more of home(the American South) than some European countries I have visted because of their courtesy, modesty and hospitality. I spoke to a muslim guard outside of the Hanging Church in Cairo (one of the oldest Christian Churches in the world) about why he was there (he was in full uniform bearing an assault rifle). He said that he, a Muslim, was there to guard the Christian Church against possible attacks. I didn't realize the irony of that situation until reading this thread.

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German mosque used by Sept. 11 attackers shut down
11 mins ago

BERLIN – A small Hamburg mosque once frequented by Sept. 11 attackers was shut down and searched Monday because German authorities believed the prayer house was again being used as a meeting point for Islamic radicals.

The Taiba mosque was closed and the cultural association that runs it was banned, officials in the northern German city of Hamburg said.

"We have closed the mosque because it was a recruiting and meeting point for Islamic radicals who wanted to participate in so-called jihad or holy war," said Frank Reschreiter, a spokesman for the Hamburg state interior ministry.

He said 20 police officers were searching the building and had confiscated material, including several computers. He said he had no information about any arrests.

The homes of leading members of the cultural association were also searched and the group's assets were confiscated, Hamburg's state government said in a statement.

The prayer house, until two years ago known as the al-Quds mosque, was a meeting and recruiting point years ago for some of the Sept. 11 attackers before they moved to the United States, authorities say. Sept. 11 ringleader Mohamed Atta as well as attackers Marwan al-Shehhi and Ziad Jarrah had studied in Hamburg and frequented the al-Quds mosque.

Reschreiter said the mosque had been under OBservation by local intelligence officers for "quite a long time" and this was the first time it had been closed. The local interior ministry said about 45 supporters of jihad live in the Hamburg area and around 200 people regularly attend Friday prayers at the Taiba mosque.

The ministry also said that over the years, the mosque also became a magnet for so-called jihad tourists — Muslims from out of town who bragged about having worshipped at the same mosque were once the Sept. 11 terrorists gathered for prayer.

The banned group's home page on the Web had been taken down by Monday and it was not possible to reach any members directly.

A 2009 report by the Hamburg branch of Germany's domestic intelligence agency said the mosque had again become the "center of attraction for the jihad scene" in the northern port city.

The current imam is Mamoun Darkazanli, who was questioned following the 2001 attacks after it emerged that he moved in some of the same circles as the hijackers. Darkazanli, a dual citizen of Germany and Syria, denied any links to Osama bin Laden or the attacks.

In OctOBer 2004, he was arrested in Hamburg on a Spanish warrant accusing him of involvement with al-Qaida and alleging that he was a bin Laden financier.

His extradition was blocked by Germany's high court and he was eventually released. In 2006, German prosecutors closed their own investigation of him, saying there was insufficient evidence to show that Darkazanli supported al-Qaida.

"He is a hate preacher," the head of the Hamburg anti-terror department, Lothar Bergmann, said at a news conference, the German news agency DAPD reported. Manfred Murck, the deputy head of the domestic intelligence agency's local branch, called him an "elder statesman of jihad."

The Hamburg interior ministry said a group of 11 militants who had traveled to military training camps in Uzbekistan in March 2009 was formed at Taiba mosque.

It said Monday that "the training courses, sermons and seminars by the association as well texts published on the group's home page not only violate the constitution but also radicalize listeners and readers."

Most of the group's members were either German converts, of Middle Eastern origin or from the Caucasus region.

"A very important factor for the radicalization of the group members was certainly their joint visits to the mosque," the intelligence report stated.

It appears that one man from the group joined the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, a terrorist organization in Central Asia, the report said.

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There is no "may be" about it. There have been muslims living in peace us in this country for generations. In my city alone there are three or four mosques and/or islamic centers and we have never had one iota of trouble with them. My neighbors are muslims and they detest Al Queda prOBably more so than most Americans because, not only do they find terrorism counter to their core beliefs, but also because of people like Jerry and John who now think that every muslim is a suicide bomber just waiting to launch their own jihad against us.

I would venture to say that most, if not all, the people on this board that hold this view either live in a very rural area that has no muslims, or they live in a very closed society in which they never interact with the muslims around them. All of their information about Islam comes from inflammatory websites or tag lines taken from the Koran with no muslim commentary about how said lines are to be interpreted. As CPR said previously, it's a matter of of either being uninformed or misinformed. It appears that this view (that all muslims are terrorist) did not exists until 9/11. It's as if people have forgoten that Islam has been with us since the 7th century and that muslims and Christians have been living side by side in many nations since that time.

There is no doubt that Islam, like Christianity, has an extremists element within it. However, like Christianity, the vast amount of evience suggests these extremists are a small minority. I have been to Cairo (the largest Muslim city on the planet) and Dubai and I was always treated with respect and civility. I would even say that those two muslim nations reminded me a lot more of home(the American South) than some European countries I have visted because of their courtesy, modesty and hospitality. I spoke to a muslim guard outside of the Hanging Church in Cairo (one of the oldest Christian Churches in the world) about why he was there (he was in full uniform bearing an assault rifle). He said that he, a Muslim, was there to guard the Christian Church against possible attacks. I didn't realize the irony of that situation until reading this thread.


Neither John or Jerry said any such thing. Both did rightly point out that Islam is an extremist religion and within their goals is the plan for Muslims to play various roles, including the infiltration of non-Muslim lands giving the appearance of peacefulness as an act of subterfuge until the time is right. In the meantime, much support is funneled to the actual warrior elements while the "peaceful" Muslims provide plausible cover on the PR front.

Islam, from its inception has been a extremist, militant religion bent upon the Islamification of the world. Their "holy book" commands such. Their teachings command such.

Unfortunately the vast majority of Muslims take their false religion far more serious than do Christians. They actually believe their teachings and strive to live for their fulfillment.

The Muslims who serve to pacify their enemies, the Muslims who appear to be average citizens while funneling millions of their dollars to the armed elements, are just as much our enemies as are the ones with the guns in their hands or the bombs in their cars.

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Neither John or Jerry said any such thing. Both did rightly point out that Islam is an extremist religion and within their goals is the plan for Muslims to play various roles, including the infiltration of non-Muslim lands giving the appearance of peacefulness as an act of subterfuge until the time is right. In the meantime, much support is funneled to the actual warrior elements while the "peaceful" Muslims provide plausible cover on the PR front.

Islam, from its inception has been a extremist, militant religion bent upon the Islamification of the world. Their "holy book" commands such. Their teachings command such.

Unfortunately the vast majority of Muslims take their false religion far more serious than do Christians. They actually believe their teachings and strive to live for their fulfillment.

The Muslims who serve to pacify their enemies, the Muslims who appear to be average citizens while funneling millions of their dollars to the armed elements, are just as much our enemies as are the ones with the guns in their hands or the bombs in their cars.


You just said it again. And you have absolutely no evidence that all of the millions of muslims across the planet are funneling money to "armed elements" or that they are lying in wait for the right moment to kill us. They come to this country for the same reasons as almost all immigrants: for a better life for themselves and their families. They work hard, pay their taxes and mind their business like everyone else should be doing.

You do realize that hundreds of thousands of muslims die everyday without ever harming anyone or funding terrorists organizations, don't you? Surely you know that we are fighting along side muslims in our war on terrorism, that we have muslims in our military putting their lives on the line so that you and I can have the freedoms we enjoy.

And as far as their holy book demanding that they lie, cheat, steal and kill, I'm sure I could find a few verses from our Bible that, when taken out of context or bent and twisted, could be made to say some not so pleasant things as well.

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You just said it again. And you have absolutely no evidence that all of the millions of muslims across the planet are funneling money to "armed elements" or that they are lying in wait for the right moment to kill us. They come to this country for the same reasons as almost all immigrants: for a better life for themselves and their families. They work hard, pay their taxes and mind their business like everyone else should be doing.

You do realize that hundreds of thousands of muslims die everyday without ever harming anyone or funding terrorists organizations, don't you? Surely you know that we are fighting along side muslims in our war on terrorism, that we have muslims in our military putting their lives on the line so that you and I can have the freedoms we enjoy.

And as far as their holy book demanding that they lie, cheat, steal and kill, I'm sure I could find a few verses from our Bible that, when taken out of context or bent and twisted, could be made to say some not so pleasant things as well.


No, I never said what you accused Jerry and I of saying.

You can stick your head in the sand if you want to. Contemporary as well as the entire historical record of Islam says just what I've posted. The evidence is all around you from within this country to many other countries around the world today.

There is no need to take anything out of context from their "holy book", read it yourself, it's all there in clear terms and in context. Find a factual book on the history of Islam, not some modern PC sugarcoated edition, but a real book of history. Islam is a militant religion with a specific part of every Muslim to play in the conquering of the world for "allah".

What's the point about lots of Muslims dying every day? So do lots of others and without Christ they are all going to hell.

No, we are not fighting alongside Muslims in our war on terror, there are some Muslims going by the principle of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and using America in an attempt to rid them of their rivals. They are in no way out to stop the Islamification of the world. Iran was once a "friend" of America, as was Iraq. Turkey, Lebonon, etc....

I've lived long enough to personally see the results of denying reality in such situations. I've been blessed to know many good men who were born in the late 1800s to early 1900s who knew first hand how blessed America once was and how reality and common sense were the rule prior to the rise of what would eventually become the PC era.

Even if one chooses to ignore these realities, if one professes to be a Christian they should be standing against such a terrible false religion as Islam which is leading millions to hell, killing/has killed millions who will/did go to hell, actively seeks to prevent Christians from presenting the Gospel to Muslims, and is intent upon refuting and eradicating the truth about Christ.

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